In all fairness, I want to see where the '83.8 catchable rate' comes from--other than a reddit post.  I checked the referred to athletic post but's it's protected by a pay wall.  What I could read seems to be a little off... as it's using a proprietary QB metric (ie. they won't share where they got the numbers.)

My general rule of thumb is that any metric that shows your rookie QB outperforming GOAT Tom Brady and the Superbowl winning QB should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

According to that article trevor had more catchable passes than Stafford/Brady/Russel Wilson and more.

Let's look at the real stats.

Stafford: 404 Completions 601 Attempts (67.2% comp)
Lawrence: 353 Completions 602 Attempts (59.6% comp)

I'm sorry, but you're trying to tell me the guy with almost a 10% less completion percentage, 51 less completions on one more attempt. You trying to tell me Trevor had 51 catchable passes dropped/missed MORE than Stafford, did Stafford have 0 drops and every catchable pass caught?

nah


Edit:

Just because I have eyes, and call things the way I see it does not mean I hate the jaguars, Trevor Lawrence, or any other player. The absolute only reason I even talk about his bad play is because I constantly see people praising him for nothing. Imagine this, Imagine all of last year every day you saw me post how good Taven Bryan was, constantly without reason. That's how I feel about the people riding Trevors [BLEEP].

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Any proprietary metric should be taken with a grain of salt.

It's why we buffer PFF ratings around here pretty universally and this is no different. 

Regardless, it's a good sign that some person(s) at a well visited sporting website came to that conclusion on Lawrence. 
Even if you temper the number.

Exactly. Stafford had 601 passing attempts, 400+ completions. Trevor had 602 passing attempts with around 300 completions. 

In no world, did one guy throw more catchable passes and have 100 less completions on the same amount of attempts. Unless you want to tell me we had nearly 100 drops.


The "catchable pass" stat is bogus in this regard and anyone with eyes knows it. And for the other guy I'm talking to who claimed that only 7 of those ints were on Trevor is blind. I'm not biased against Trevor, but you are biased for him.

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I don’t get why some people are so dead set on trying to view the negative on Lawrence at this point. Did he have a great rookie season? No. Did I see a lot of promise? Yes. I think he will be our QB for the next decade. I would rather give him the time to develop and put a team around him than keep hitting reset at this important position.

There would be no argument from me, if people just accepted the truth. He looked terrible. Not bad, terrible. I'm not saying he wont turn it around, but I am over the biased opinions on this board. If Trevor went to the Jets, and played this way. Everyone on this board would be like "well guess we didn't miss out on anything" The same way most people on this board think Zach Wilson is terrible even tho him and Trevor had pretty similar years.

One thing we all tend to forget is we had receivers running the wrong routes so bad they collided into each other. This eliminates a QB's ability to throw before the break, or maybe he did and that was what we were seeing at times.

Now truth is a word, but it appears to me it is misused in that sentence. A better way to say that "There would be no argument from me, if people just accepted my opinion."  

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

In all fairness, I want to see where the '83.8 catchable rate' comes from--other than a reddit post.  I checked the referred to athletic post but's it's protected by a pay wall.  What I could read seems to be a little off... as it's using a proprietary QB metric (ie. they won't share where they got the numbers.)

My general rule of thumb is that any metric that shows your rookie QB outperforming GOAT Tom Brady and the Superbowl winning QB should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

According to that article trevor had more catchable passes than Stafford/Brady/Russel Wilson and more.

Let's look at the real stats.

Stafford: 404 Completions 601 Attempts (67.2% comp)
Lawrence: 353 Completions 602 Attempts (59.6% comp)

I'm sorry, but you're trying to tell me the guy with almost a 10% less completion percentage, 51 less completions on one more attempt. You trying to tell me Trevor had 51 catchable passes dropped/missed MORE than Stafford, did Stafford have 0 drops and every catchable pass caught?

nah


Edit:

Just because I have eyes, and call things the way I see it does not mean I hate the jaguars, Trevor Lawrence, or any other player. The absolute only reason I even talk about his bad play is because I constantly see people praising him for nothing. Imagine this, Imagine all of last year every day you saw me post how good Taven Bryan was, constantly without reason. That's how I feel about the people riding Trevors [BLEEP].

Bad faith argument is bad faith.

The truth is somewhere between the proprietary stat and your characterization of terrible play.  But it's closer to the proprietary stat.  I remember watching the games.  There were LOTS of drops.  Yes, probably closer to 50 more drops than Stafford suffered than you want to admit.  But it should not surprise anyone.  Compare the Rams receivers to the Jags receivers.

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Fix the O-Line!

Any proprietary metric should be taken with a grain of salt.

It's why we buffer PFF ratings around here pretty universally and this is no different. 

Regardless, it's a good sign that some person(s) at a well visited sporting website came to that conclusion on Lawrence. 
Even if you temper the number.

Exactly. Stafford had 601 passing attempts, 400+ completions. Trevor had 602 passing attempts with around 300 completions. 

In no world, did one guy throw more catchable passes and have 100 less completions on the same amount of attempts. Unless you want to tell me we had nearly 100 drops.


The "catchable pass" stat is bogus in this regard and anyone with eyes knows it. And for the other guy I'm talking to who claimed that only 7 of those ints were on Trevor is blind. I'm not biased against Trevor, but you are biased for him.

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No, not exactly. 

Your numbers are inaccurate. 
Trevor Lawrence had 359 completions. 
Stafford had 435. 

This accounts for the 7.6% difference in their completion percentages. 

And there are several ways a catchable pass can be incomplete besides a "drop." 
 
Anyone with eyes  should be able to see that this kid has more potential than any QB to come through Jacksonville since it was awarded a team. He merely needs improved consistency and an improved supporting cast. 

It will be interesting to see if you are still clinging to your poorly formed negative stance on Trevor Lawrence's rookie season when the Fall arrives and he's had some time to thrive in a better system.

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In all fairness, I want to see where the '83.8 catchable rate' comes from--other than a reddit post.  I checked the referred to athletic post but's it's protected by a pay wall.  What I could read seems to be a little off... as it's using a proprietary QB metric (ie. they won't share where they got the numbers.)

My general rule of thumb is that any metric that shows your rookie QB outperforming GOAT Tom Brady and the Superbowl winning QB should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

According to that article trevor had more catchable passes than Stafford/Brady/Russel Wilson and more.

Let's look at the real stats.

Stafford: 404 Completions 601 Attempts (67.2% comp)
Lawrence: 353 Completions 602 Attempts (59.6% comp)

I'm sorry, but you're trying to tell me the guy with almost a 10% less completion percentage, 51 less completions on one more attempt. You trying to tell me Trevor had 51 catchable passes dropped/missed MORE than Stafford, did Stafford have 0 drops and every catchable pass caught?

nah


Edit:

Just because I have eyes, and call things the way I see it does not mean I hate the jaguars, Trevor Lawrence, or any other player. The absolute only reason I even talk about his bad play is because I constantly see people praising him for nothing. Imagine this, Imagine all of last year every day you saw me post how good Taven Bryan was, constantly without reason. That's how I feel about the people riding Trevors [BLEEP].

You edited that post and still can't [BLEEP] get the numbers right??

LOL

What's the point of debate with you?
 Try being factual and stop listing inaccurate information to aid your crap argument.

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In all fairness, I want to see where the '83.8 catchable rate' comes from--other than a reddit post.  I checked the referred to athletic post but's it's protected by a pay wall.  What I could read seems to be a little off... as it's using a proprietary QB metric (ie. they won't share where they got the numbers.)

My general rule of thumb is that any metric that shows your rookie QB outperforming GOAT Tom Brady and the Superbowl winning QB should probably be taken with a grain of salt.

According to that article trevor had more catchable passes than Stafford/Brady/Russel Wilson and more.

Let's look at the real stats.

Stafford: 404 Completions 601 Attempts (67.2% comp)
Lawrence: 353 Completions 602 Attempts (59.6% comp)

I'm sorry, but you're trying to tell me the guy with almost a 10% less completion percentage, 51 less completions on one more attempt. You trying to tell me Trevor had 51 catchable passes dropped/missed MORE than Stafford, did Stafford have 0 drops and every catchable pass caught?

nah


Edit:

Just because I have eyes, and call things the way I see it does not mean I hate the jaguars, Trevor Lawrence, or any other player. The absolute only reason I even talk about his bad play is because I constantly see people praising him for nothing. Imagine this, Imagine all of last year every day you saw me post how good Taven Bryan was, constantly without reason. That's how I feel about the people riding Trevors [BLEEP].

So to sum your argument up: "no, that can't possibly be true."

Okay, buddy.

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How many easy passes did shenault drop of trevors?

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I don’t get why some people are so dead set on trying to view the negative on Lawrence at this point. Did he have a great rookie season? No. Did I see a lot of promise? Yes. I think he will be our QB for the next decade. I would rather give him the time to develop and put a team around him than keep hitting reset at this important position.

I’m highlighting this post because it’s legit the only one people need.

Was he great? No. Were there things he did that were his fault? Of course.

However, given all the circumstances and his overall makeup, you have to believe the arrow is pointed up.

Better OLine. Better weapons. But most of all, HE HAS A REAL COACH AND NOT A BUM!

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I watched that team last year. I have no issue believing that we had 100 drops.

Easily. We had the worst receivers in the NFL last season and have done little so far to improve that. I saw so many passes bouncing off finger tips last season it was ridiculous. I think a lot of it has to do with the velocity Trevor throws with. Our receivers were used to catching softballs that Minshew threw and now they have a QB with a real NFL arm and they act like the ball is a hot potato.

---

How many easy passes did shenault drop of trevors?

Most of them from what I remember.

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I watched that team last year. I have no issue believing that we had 100 drops.

Easily. We had the worst receivers in the NFL last season and have done little so far to improve that. I saw so many passes bouncing off finger tips last season it was ridiculous. I think a lot of it has to do with the velocity Trevor throws with. Our receivers were used to catching softballs that Minshew threw and now they have a QB with a real NFL arm and they act like the ball is a hot potato.

---

How many easy passes did shenault drop of trevors?

Most of them from what I remember.

Drops. Bad routes. Bad schemes. No separation…..

Last year was a hot mess.

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Doug is going to work wonders with Trevor Lawrence. It’s the best case scenario. Look what he did with Foles in that Super Bowl run. Trevor is a million times better than Foles.

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The wide receivers were horrible dropping passes and killing drives all the time. The play calling was suspect too.

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Last year is water under the bridge. I want to see what Doug pederson game plan consist of for Lawrence. As stated previously the biggest improvement Lawrence can make is consistency. He especially has to get better at ball placement and learning to put some soft touch on the football at times. Pederson won a Superbowl with Foles so excited to see what he can do with a raw Lawrence. Looking for a more RPO, bootleg, moving the pocket type of offense from Pederson. I don't see a whole lot of Lawrence just doing vanilla drop backs under Pederson.

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Last year is water under the bridge.  I want to see what Doug pederson game plan consist of for Lawrence.  As stated previously the biggest improvement Lawrence can make is consistency.  He especially has to get better at ball placement and learning to put some soft touch on the football at times.  Pederson won a Superbowl with Foles so excited to see what he can do with a raw Lawrence.  Looking for a more RPO, bootleg, moving the pocket type of offense from Pederson.  I don't see a whole lot of Lawrence just doing vanilla drop backs under Pederson.

Is this post of yours from November 14 water under the bridge too, or nah? 

Regardless of his potential he is easily one of if not the worst starting Qb right now.  His receivers share some responsibility but the majority of his struggles are on him. 

If3 the majority of Lawrence's struggles in 2021 were mostly his fault as you've stated, why would you be excited to see what different coaching and personnel will do for him?  He's the one that screwed up his opportunities, right?

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Personally, I believe the majority of Lawrence's struggles were on the completely inept group of WR's we had last season. Once Chark got injured, we were left with a "ragtag" group of losers at the position. Unfortunately, we have done very little to upgrade the position at this time and I've seen no evidence that we've even explored a trade option to bring in a viable #1 receiver. I have little hope that anything changes in 2022, even if Lawrence makes a big leap forward. To this point, I just see a team completely wasting the talents of a promising young QB, because they refuse to get him any help.

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Exactly. Stafford had 601 passing attempts, 400+ completions. Trevor had 602 passing attempts with around 300 completions. 

In no world, did one guy throw more catchable passes and have 100 less completions on the same amount of attempts. Unless you want to tell me we had nearly 100 drops.


The "catchable pass" stat is bogus in this regard and anyone with eyes knows it. And for the other guy I'm talking to who claimed that only 7 of those ints were on Trevor is blind. I'm not biased against Trevor, but you are biased for him.

---

There would be no argument from me, if people just accepted the truth. He looked terrible. Not bad, terrible. I'm not saying he wont turn it around, but I am over the biased opinions on this board. If Trevor went to the Jets, and played this way. Everyone on this board would be like "well guess we didn't miss out on anything" The same way most people on this board think Zach Wilson is terrible even tho him and Trevor had pretty similar years.

One thing we all tend to forget is we had receivers running the wrong routes so bad they collided into each other. This eliminates a QB's ability to throw before the break, or maybe he did and that was what we were seeing at times.

Now truth is a word, but it appears to me it is misused in that sentence. A better way to say that "There would be no argument from me, if people just accepted my opinion."  

An opinion backed with fact is truth.

---

Last year is water under the bridge.  I want to see what Doug pederson game plan consist of for Lawrence.  As stated previously the biggest improvement Lawrence can make is consistency.  He especially has to get better at ball placement and learning to put some soft touch on the football at times.  Pederson won a Superbowl with Foles so excited to see what he can do with a raw Lawrence.  Looking for a more RPO, bootleg, moving the pocket type of offense from Pederson.  I don't see a whole lot of Lawrence just doing vanilla drop backs under Pederson.

Is this post of yours from November 14 water under the bridge too, or nah? 

Regardless of his potential he is easily one of if not the worst starting Qb right now.  His receivers share some responsibility but the majority of his struggles are on him. 

If3 the majority of Lawrence's struggles in 2021 were mostly his fault as you've stated, why would you be excited to see what different coaching and personnel will do for him?  He's the one that screwed up his opportunities, right?

Can't speak for Jaguar MVP but can for myself. Trevor Lawrence had an absolutely terrible season. Why?
Inaccuracy
Bad Decisions
Bad OL Protection
Bad WRs
Bad Coaching

So you're asking why somebody can say the player in question had a bad year/struggled but also asking why changes might help? Let's look at the 2019 NE Patriots.
Tom Brady, whom is the greatest QB in NFL history, had a bad year (for him) due to an extreme lack in talent around him. While he had arguably a comparable offense to the jaguars 2021 team in terms of offensive play makers, Tom Brady was able to still put up a respectable 24 TD 8 INT with 4,000 yards and a playoff berth. 

Fast forward to 2020, Brady is now a Buccaneer, with a multitude of weapons he was able to bolster his numbers. adding 600 passing yards to his 2019 total, 40 total TDs and 12 INTs. Notice how a guy who knows what he's doing, has a less productive year when having no weapons, but was still able to limit his mistakes and win games. 

Trevor Lawrence is coming off a terrible rookie year, blame who you want, blame it on inexperience, blame it on Urban is dosen't matter. For me, I'm optimistic that he will be better with time but I'm not ignorant or biased enough to sit here and tell you what I saw in 2021 was enough to give me hope. The small glimer of hope for me, comes from the fact that there was no coach, no talent and no culture. 

We will see this year, if he's the guy or not. It does not take 3-4 years. What we need to see this year is just improvement, it needs to be significant.. now that dosen't mean he has to throw for 5,000 yards and have 50 TDs, but show me you can lower your turnovers and be productive at scoring points. 

If (and I doubt it) but if, he has a comparable stat line in year 2 to year 1.. it's over for him.

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I watched that team last year. I have no issue believing that we had 100 drops.

Easily. We had the worst receivers in the NFL last season and have done little so far to improve that. I saw so many passes bouncing off finger tips last season it was ridiculous. I think a lot of it has to do with the velocity Trevor throws with. Our receivers were used to catching softballs that Minshew threw and now they have a QB with a real NFL arm and they act like the ball is a hot potato.

---

How many easy passes did shenault drop of trevors?

Most of them from what I remember.

What he didn't drop, he caught and fumbled.

---

"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

According to that article trevor had more catchable passes than Stafford/Brady/Russel Wilson and more.

Let's look at the real stats.

Stafford: 404 Completions 601 Attempts (67.2% comp)
Lawrence: 353 Completions 602 Attempts (59.6% comp)

I'm sorry, but you're trying to tell me the guy with almost a 10% less completion percentage, 51 less completions on one more attempt. You trying to tell me Trevor had 51 catchable passes dropped/missed MORE than Stafford, did Stafford have 0 drops and every catchable pass caught?

nah


Edit:

Just because I have eyes, and call things the way I see it does not mean I hate the jaguars, Trevor Lawrence, or any other player. The absolute only reason I even talk about his bad play is because I constantly see people praising him for nothing. Imagine this, Imagine all of last year every day you saw me post how good Taven Bryan was, constantly without reason. That's how I feel about the people riding Trevors [BLEEP].

So to sum your argument up: "no, that can't possibly be true."

Okay, buddy.

So your argument is, nothing he did was possitive but i'm going to pretend he's an elite QB.

Okay, buddy.

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So to sum your argument up: "no, that can't possibly be true."

Okay, buddy.

So your argument is, nothing he did was possitive but i'm going to pretend he's an elite QB.

Okay, buddy.

Not an argument, a presentation of facts. When you separate his performance (which was decent) from the stats (which were poor) it wasn't as bad as people like you feel it was, and when presented with that info instead of admitting maybe your fee fees were wrong you instead say, "that must be wrong, because muh fee fees."

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So your argument is, nothing he did was possitive but i'm going to pretend he's an elite QB.

Okay, buddy.

Not an argument, a presentation of facts. When you separate his performance (which was decent) from the stats (which were poor) it wasn't as bad as people like you feel it was, and when presented with that info instead of admitting maybe your fee fees were wrong you instead say, "that must be wrong, because muh fee fees."

This info, coming from what source exactly? Who decides if a pass is catchable or not? I'm sorry but, I assume you and most of the other people on this board watched the games last year.. he wasn't throwing a ton of catchable passes. It's not catchable when it goes flying 5 yards over your head or out the back of the endzone. 


I'm pretty sure we are all watching the same games, but sometimes I can't tell with how ignorant people on this board are when it comes to being bias. It's just funny because I went through this same crap in 2014-2015 with Bortles. It's okay to be biased for your team, it's not okay to be ignorant and completely blind.

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