Not an argument, a presentation of facts. When you separate his performance (which was decent) from the stats (which were poor) it wasn't as bad as people like you feel it was, and when presented with that info instead of admitting maybe your fee fees were wrong you instead say, "that must be wrong, because muh fee fees."

This info, coming from what source exactly? Who decides if a pass is catchable or not? I'm sorry but, I assume you and most of the other people on this board watched the games last year.. he wasn't throwing a ton of catchable passes. It's not catchable when it goes flying 5 yards over your head or out the back of the endzone. 


I'm pretty sure we are all watching the same games, but sometimes I can't tell with how ignorant people on this board are when it comes to being bias. It's just funny because I went through this same crap in 2014-2015 with Bortles. It's okay to be biased for your team, it's not okay to be ignorant and completely blind.

I was at all the home games last year, and what I saw was that it was very seldom that our receivers got open.  It was pretty remarkable, actually.  From actually sitting in the stands, in a very good seat, seeing the whole field, the obvious problem was the receivers.  Not the QB.   And then, of course, when they did get open, they dropped the ball.  But the main problem was that they weren't open.  That's what I saw, from sitting in the stands, and seeing the whole field.  

So, did you actually go to the games, or did you just watch them on TV?

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Is this post of yours from November 14 water under the bridge too, or nah? 


If3 the majority of Lawrence's struggles in 2021 were mostly his fault as you've stated, why would you be excited to see what different coaching and personnel will do for him?  He's the one that screwed up his opportunities, right?

Can't speak for Jaguar MVP but can for myself. Trevor Lawrence had an absolutely terrible season. Why?
Inaccuracy
Bad Decisions
Bad OL Protection
Bad WRs
Bad Coaching

So you're asking why somebody can say the player in question had a bad year/struggled but also asking why changes might help? Let's look at the 2019 NE Patriots.
Tom Brady, whom is the greatest QB in NFL history, had a bad year (for him) due to an extreme lack in talent around him. While he had arguably a comparable offense to the jaguars 2021 team in terms of offensive play makers, Tom Brady was able to still put up a respectable 24 TD 8 INT with 4,000 yards and a playoff berth. 

Fast forward to 2020, Brady is now a Buccaneer, with a multitude of weapons he was able to bolster his numbers. adding 600 passing yards to his 2019 total, 40 total TDs and 12 INTs. Notice how a guy who knows what he's doing, has a less productive year when having no weapons, but was still able to limit his mistakes and win games. 

Trevor Lawrence is coming off a terrible rookie year, blame who you want, blame it on inexperience, blame it on Urban is dosen't matter. For me, I'm optimistic that he will be better with time but I'm not ignorant or biased enough to sit here and tell you what I saw in 2021 was enough to give me hope. The small glimer of hope for me, comes from the fact that there was no coach, no talent and no culture. 

We will see this year, if he's the guy or not. It does not take 3-4 years. What we need to see this year is just improvement, it needs to be significant.. now that dosen't mean he has to throw for 5,000 yards and have 50 TDs, but show me you can lower your turnovers and be productive at scoring points. 

If (and I doubt it) but if, he has a comparable stat line in year 2 to year 1.. it's over for him.

Just stop.

Comparing Trevors rookie season to the greatest QB of all time in their 18th season? Who also had the best head coach of all time?

You think you're making a good point but you're really just making yourself look dumb. Get up the good work!

---

Not an argument, a presentation of facts. When you separate his performance (which was decent) from the stats (which were poor) it wasn't as bad as people like you feel it was, and when presented with that info instead of admitting maybe your fee fees were wrong you instead say, "that must be wrong, because muh fee fees."

This info, coming from what source exactly? Who decides if a pass is catchable or not? I'm sorry but, I assume you and most of the other people on this board watched the games last year.. he wasn't throwing a ton of catchable passes. It's not catchable when it goes flying 5 yards over your head or out the back of the endzone. 


I'm pretty sure we are all watching the same games, but sometimes I can't tell with how ignorant people on this board are when it comes to being bias. It's just funny because I went through this same crap in 2014-2015 with Bortles. It's okay to be biased for your team, it's not okay to be ignorant and completely blind.

It's funny how people can 'watch all the games' and a couple can see something completely different.

But I know, you're 'realists'...right?

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One thing we all tend to forget is we had receivers running the wrong routes so bad they collided into each other. This eliminates a QB's ability to throw before the break, or maybe he did and that was what we were seeing at times.

Now truth is a word, but it appears to me it is misused in that sentence. A better way to say that "There would be no argument from me, if people just accepted my opinion."  

An opinion backed with fact is truth.

LOL

No. No it isn't. It's still just an opinion.  
And you haven't provided any factual "backing" - only an opinion that seems to differ from what 96% of the football world sees when they watch Trevor's film.

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Not an argument, a presentation of facts. When you separate his performance (which was decent) from the stats (which were poor) it wasn't as bad as people like you feel it was, and when presented with that info instead of admitting maybe your fee fees were wrong you instead say, "that must be wrong, because muh fee fees."

This info, coming from what source exactly? Who decides if a pass is catchable or not? I'm sorry but, I assume you and most of the other people on this board watched the games last year.. he wasn't throwing a ton of catchable passes. It's not catchable when it goes flying 5 yards over your head or out the back of the endzone. 


I'm pretty sure we are all watching the same games, but sometimes I can't tell with how ignorant people on this board are when it comes to being bias. It's just funny because I went through this same crap in 2014-2015 with Bortles. It's okay to be biased for your team, it's not okay to be ignorant and completely blind.

If you can't tell that the talent gap between Blake and Trevor is on an interplanetary scale, you'll never understand why so many football fans think you're wrong about Trevor Lawrence. 

Maybe you just don't know how to discern positive traits in a QB.

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Last year is water under the bridge.  I want to see what Doug pederson game plan consist of for Lawrence.  As stated previously the biggest improvement Lawrence can make is consistency.  He especially has to get better at ball placement and learning to put some soft touch on the football at times.  Pederson won a Superbowl with Foles so excited to see what he can do with a raw Lawrence.  Looking for a more RPO, bootleg, moving the pocket type of offense from Pederson.  I don't see a whole lot of Lawrence just doing vanilla drop backs under Pederson.

Is this post of yours from November 14 water under the bridge too, or nah? 

Regardless of his potential he is easily one of if not the worst starting Qb right now.  His receivers share some responsibility but the majority of his struggles are on him. 

If3 the majority of Lawrence's struggles in 2021 were mostly his fault as you've stated, why would you be excited to see what different coaching and personnel will do for him?  He's the one that screwed up his opportunities, right?

welcome back to the blocked list!

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So to sum your argument up: "no, that can't possibly be true."

Okay, buddy.

So your argument is, nothing he did was possitive but i'm going to pretend he's an elite QB.

Okay, buddy.

If you saw nothing positive in last season, I'll allege that you had not watched any Jags football for the past decade plus.

I don't give one fart about stats when you consider how mismanaged our team was. Trevor stood in the face of pressure, he led this team and the offense gave their best in spite of the poor direction they received from coaching, and dear goodness, he made throws we haven't seen in far too long.

Go back and watch Gabbert turn fetal in the face of pass rush, or Bort one-hop a pass to a receiver or an offense give zero effort when they know the QB is bound to make a bonehead play, and tell me there was nothing positive last year. I'll grant that there may be reason for concern, but there's also plenty of reason to hope for improvement.

---

One thing we all tend to forget is we had receivers running the wrong routes so bad they collided into each other. This eliminates a QB's ability to throw before the break, or maybe he did and that was what we were seeing at times.

Now truth is a word, but it appears to me it is misused in that sentence. A better way to say that "There would be no argument from me, if people just accepted my opinion."  

An opinion backed with fact is truth.

No dude, you seem to search the internet and cut snippets to spin to back up your opinion. You ignore the one that does not fit or cast a shadow your agenda.  It is ok with me you have the opinion you do. I am not going to call you names for it or question your intelligence.  It is your right to have a different opinion. I will agree in your mind it is truth.  However in my mind what you present is not truth (I am one of them) therefore it is not universally true.  (maybe just in your head)
I actually think the kid played the hand of cards he was dealt pretty well. That too is the truth.

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

Can't speak for Jaguar MVP but can for myself. Trevor Lawrence had an absolutely terrible season. Why?
Inaccuracy
Bad Decisions
Bad OL Protection
Bad WRs
Bad Coaching

So you're asking why somebody can say the player in question had a bad year/struggled but also asking why changes might help? Let's look at the 2019 NE Patriots.
Tom Brady, whom is the greatest QB in NFL history, had a bad year (for him) due to an extreme lack in talent around him. While he had arguably a comparable offense to the jaguars 2021 team in terms of offensive play makers, Tom Brady was able to still put up a respectable 24 TD 8 INT with 4,000 yards and a playoff berth. 

Fast forward to 2020, Brady is now a Buccaneer, with a multitude of weapons he was able to bolster his numbers. adding 600 passing yards to his 2019 total, 40 total TDs and 12 INTs. Notice how a guy who knows what he's doing, has a less productive year when having no weapons, but was still able to limit his mistakes and win games. 

Trevor Lawrence is coming off a terrible rookie year, blame who you want, blame it on inexperience, blame it on Urban is dosen't matter. For me, I'm optimistic that he will be better with time but I'm not ignorant or biased enough to sit here and tell you what I saw in 2021 was enough to give me hope. The small glimer of hope for me, comes from the fact that there was no coach, no talent and no culture. 

We will see this year, if he's the guy or not. It does not take 3-4 years. What we need to see this year is just improvement, it needs to be significant.. now that dosen't mean he has to throw for 5,000 yards and have 50 TDs, but show me you can lower your turnovers and be productive at scoring points. 

If (and I doubt it) but if, he has a comparable stat line in year 2 to year 1.. it's over for him.

Just stop.

Comparing Trevors rookie season to the greatest QB of all time in their 18th season? Who also had the best head coach of all time?

You think you're making a good point but you're really just making yourself look dumb. Get up the good work!

Tom Brady sucked out lout at Michigan.

Trevor Lawrence, with all his accolades, should be better. But he's not.

Cause failure in College made Brady hungry.

---

Just stop.

Comparing Trevors rookie season to the greatest QB of all time in their 18th season? Who also had the best head coach of all time?

You think you're making a good point but you're really just making yourself look dumb. Get up the good work!

Tom Brady sucked out lout at Michigan.

Trevor Lawrence, with all his accolades, should be better. But he's not.

Cause failure in College made Brady hungry.

So you are saying players who start out performing below ideal standards can progress into excellence?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Just stop.

Comparing Trevors rookie season to the greatest QB of all time in their 18th season? Who also had the best head coach of all time?

You think you're making a good point but you're really just making yourself look dumb. Get up the good work!

Tom Brady sucked out lout at Michigan.

Trevor Lawrence, with all his accolades, should be better. But he's not.

Cause failure in College made Brady hungry.

Did Tom Brady start his rookie year? No.

Did Tom Brady QB a team that had the worst record in all of football? No.

Let's use context instead of just making dumb statements that can't be supported with actual facts.

Tom Brady is great for a multitude of reasons.... His failure in college is most likely not one of them.

---

Just stop.

Comparing Trevors rookie season to the greatest QB of all time in their 18th season? Who also had the best head coach of all time?

You think you're making a good point but you're really just making yourself look dumb. Get up the good work!

Tom Brady sucked out lout at Michigan.

Trevor Lawrence, with all his accolades, should be better. But he's not.

Cause failure in College made Brady hungry.

The 2000 FEDEX Orange bowl ( BCS bowl that year) was Brady's last game where he led Michigan to a 35-34 overtime victory over alabama. Making his final collegiate appearance, led Michigan to the win, throwing for a career-high 369 yards and four touchdowns, while leading the team back from a pair of 14-point deficits in regulation (14–0 in the first half, and 28–14 in the second).

Yea he was a failure in college

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

Tom Brady sucked out lout at Michigan.

Trevor Lawrence, with all his accolades, should be better. But he's not.

Cause failure in College made Brady hungry.

Tom Brady absolutely did not suck out loud at Michigan.

---

Tom Brady sucked out lout at Michigan.

Trevor Lawrence, with all his accolades, should be better. But he's not.

Cause failure in College made Brady hungry.

Did Tom Brady start his rookie year? No.

Did Tom Brady QB a team that had the worst record in all of football? No.

Let's use context instead of just making dumb statements that can't be supported with actual facts.

Tom Brady is great for a multitude of reasons.... His failure in college is most likely not one of them.

You're asking the impossible.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Tom Brady sucked out lout at Michigan.

Trevor Lawrence, with all his accolades, should be better. But he's not.

Cause failure in College made Brady hungry.

The 2000 FEDEX Orange bowl ( BCS bowl that year) was Brady's last game where he led Michigan to a 35-34 overtime victory over alabama. Making his final collegiate appearance, led Michigan to the win, throwing for a career-high 369 yards and four touchdowns, while leading the team back from a pair of 14-point deficits in regulation (14–0 in the first half, and 28–14 in the second).

Yea he was a failure in college

Yep. Bama was a powerhouse in 2000......... oh wait. Nope. They sucked.

---

Just stop.

Comparing Trevors rookie season to the greatest QB of all time in their 18th season? Who also had the best head coach of all time?

You think you're making a good point but you're really just making yourself look dumb. Get up the good work!

Tom Brady sucked out lout at Michigan.

Trevor Lawrence, with all his accolades, should be better. But he's not.

Cause failure in College made Brady hungry.

Are you out of your mind? Tom Brady Completed 61% of his passes his senior season and tallied 16 TD's and 6 int. How is that sucking? Tom Brady was a good/not great college QB who fell to the sixth round due to questionable arm strength and a complete lack of athleticism. He was not a bad QB though.

---

Tom Brady sucked out lout at Michigan.

Trevor Lawrence, with all his accolades, should be better. But he's not.

Cause failure in College made Brady hungry.

Are you out of your mind? Tom Brady Completed 61% of his passes his senior season and tallied 16 TD's and 6 int. How is that sucking? Tom Brady was a good/not great college QB who fell to the sixth round due to questionable arm strength and a complete lack of athleticism. He was not a bad QB though.

This is how I remember it too.  I guess if people want they can try to rewrite history, but that doesn't normally make much sense.

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

The 2000 FEDEX Orange bowl ( BCS bowl that year) was Brady's last game where he led Michigan to a 35-34 overtime victory over alabama. Making his final collegiate appearance, led Michigan to the win, throwing for a career-high 369 yards and four touchdowns, while leading the team back from a pair of 14-point deficits in regulation (14–0 in the first half, and 28–14 in the second).

Yea he was a failure in college

Yep. Bama was a powerhouse in 2000......... oh wait. Nope. They sucked.

Have you actually made any sort of positive post? Or do you just thrive on negativity?

Alabama still won the SEC that year.

---

This info, coming from what source exactly? Who decides if a pass is catchable or not? I'm sorry but, I assume you and most of the other people on this board watched the games last year.. he wasn't throwing a ton of catchable passes. It's not catchable when it goes flying 5 yards over your head or out the back of the endzone. 


I'm pretty sure we are all watching the same games, but sometimes I can't tell with how ignorant people on this board are when it comes to being bias. It's just funny because I went through this same crap in 2014-2015 with Bortles. It's okay to be biased for your team, it's not okay to be ignorant and completely blind.

I was at all the home games last year, and what I saw was that it was very seldom that our receivers got open.  It was pretty remarkable, actually.  From actually sitting in the stands, in a very good seat, seeing the whole field, the obvious problem was the receivers.  Not the QB.   And then, of course, when they did get open, they dropped the ball.  But the main problem was that they weren't open.  That's what I saw, from sitting in the stands, and seeing the whole field.  

So, did you actually go to the games, or did you just watch them on TV?

Last year I only attended one game. And in regards to the in-bold text, I agree with you that our Wrs didn't get open often.. no one is arguing that our "playmakers" weren't making plays. But when you make the decision to throw a pass to a WR and you're not throwing the ball away, and the ball goes flying over their head and gets picked off 5-10 yards down the field by a safety who was no where near the WR, how can you blame the WR?

Go watch that video I linked of his INTs last year, of course this is only 17 throws I unfortunately work full time or i'd go on game pass and make a huge compliation of bad throws but I do not have the time for that. He was not good last year, regardless of how the surrounding offensive players did he was not good. Would his stats been a little bit better if the WRs didn't drop passes/got open? Of course they would.. that's why he had solid numbers in college, he had elite players to throw the ball to against guys who aren't in the NFL.

Now let me go back a bit, If you've been paying attention I was skeptical of Lawrence before we even thought we'd have a chance to get him. His issues in his rookie year, were very aparent in college aswell the only reason they went mostly unnoticed is because of the talent desparity between Clemson and his opponents. He had guys like Tee Higgins who is a really good WR for the Bengals and Travis ETN who people seem to forget had an ungodly amount of Yards/TDs during his time at Clemson. People touted him coming out as a finished product, day one plug and play guy who can turn a bad team around immediately. He was never that, he does however have immense amount of talent that IF as i've said for over a year now he can hone in and fix the accuracy/decision making/errant throws on the run, he could become a monster because he does have the arm, mobility, mindset and brains to do it.

So for now, i'm going to stop talking about Trevor because we never get a conversation out of it, only people flaming me. Let's just watch this season and see if he can turn it around.. he does have the talent, it's just about him fixing the mistakes he's had since his Clemson days.

---

An opinion backed with fact is truth.

No dude, you seem to search the internet and cut snippets to spin to back up your opinion. You ignore the one that does not fit or cast a shadow your agenda.  It is ok with me you have the opinion you do. I am not going to call you names for it or question your intelligence.  It is your right to have a different opinion. I will agree in your mind it is truth.  However in my mind what you present is not truth (I am one of them) therefore it is not universally true.  (maybe just in your head)
I actually think the kid played the hand of cards he was dealt pretty well. That too is the truth.

My opinions are based on what I've seen with my eyes. I don't listen to NFLN or ESPN to formulate my thoughts. If you think Trevor was good last season tho, I'm sorry you're flat out wrong. I'm not saying he wont ever improve, I'm not saying he's a bust.. I'm simply saying that he played the way I expected him to out of Clemson. He had the same issues I saw watching him at Clemson. And while I did expect him to show his flaws, I definitely expected him to show some of his stronger attributes during the season and he didn't. And you can blame that on the Coaching/WRs/Oline whatever and I wont argue with you. But how are you going to blame a talentless roster for things he did in college with essentially an all-star team compared to most of his competiton? That's just ignorant.

Ignore the insulting title and dumb captions and just watch some of these throws and tell me, at what point do you stop blaming everyone else for his mistakes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjZFsDNqfyk

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No dude, you seem to search the internet and cut snippets to spin to back up your opinion. You ignore the one that does not fit or cast a shadow your agenda.  It is ok with me you have the opinion you do. I am not going to call you names for it or question your intelligence.  It is your right to have a different opinion. I will agree in your mind it is truth.  However in my mind what you present is not truth (I am one of them) therefore it is not universally true.  (maybe just in your head)
I actually think the kid played the hand of cards he was dealt pretty well. That too is the truth.

My opinions are based on what I've seen with my eyes. I don't listen to NFLN or ESPN to formulate my thoughts. If you think Trevor was good last season tho, I'm sorry you're flat out wrong. I'm not saying he wont ever improve, I'm not saying he's a bust.. I'm simply saying that he played the way I expected him to out of Clemson. He had the same issues I saw watching him at Clemson. And while I did expect him to show his flaws, I definitely expected him to show some of his stronger attributes during the season and he didn't. And you can blame that on the Coaching/WRs/Oline whatever and I wont argue with you. But how are you going to blame a talentless roster for things he did in college with essentially an all-star team compared to most of his competiton? That's just ignorant.

Ignore the insulting title and dumb captions and just watch some of these throws and tell me, at what point do you stop blaming everyone else for his mistakes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjZFsDNqfyk

So you're basing your point on Trevor having an unspectacular game when his team was badly outmatched and he had a shoulder injury?

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