(emphasis added)

Nothing except play QB in the NFL,  play on a Super Bowl winning team as a player, and be offensive coordinator for another Super Bowl winning team.  That is a better resume than Sean McVay and Zac Taylor when they first became head coaches in the league.

Sean NcVay's coachig career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...cVaSe0.htm

Zac Taylor's coaaching career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...aylZa0.htm

Byron Leftwich's playing career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...ftBy00.htm

Byron Leftwich's coaching career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...eftBy0.htm

For additional perspective

Doug Pederson's coaching career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...edeDo0.htm

Jon Gruden's coaching career

/www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GrudJo0.htm

Considering most NFL head coaches have been coordinators before becoming first time NFL head coaches, you can make a strong argument that Byron Leftwich was more qualified to become a head coach than any of the other candidates listed above.  Zac Taylor had one year total as an offensive coordinator, and that was at the University of Cincinnati, NOT in the NFL.  Leftwich had 5 as an NFL OC.  Jon Gruden had three seasons as an OC before becoming a head coach.  Sean McVay had three seasons as an NFL OC before becoming a head coach.  Doug Pederson had 3 years as an NFL OC before becoming Eagles' HC.  None of the other guys listed won a Super Bowl or even reached a Super Bowl as an OC.  Leftwich did. 

With the above in mind, I do not understand the basis for suggesting Leftwich hasn't shown anything to suggest he could be a head coach in this league.  Not only did he have a longer NFL career than most of the other coaches named above, he spent more time as an offensive coordinator on the NFL level than all of the guys listed above before they were hired.

The presumption of being unqualified is exactly why things like the Rooney rule are needed.

Agree that Byron is more than qualified. He should get his chance soon, and it sounded like he was very close this past cycle. Disagree that the Rooney rule is helpful.

Whether the Rooney Rule is being effectively implemented is a different issue than whether the owners felt it necessary to implement under the threat of an employment discrimination lawsuit.

When first implemented, it did a decent job.  But over time, the owner's emphasis towards offense combined with a greater knowledge of the Rooney Rule requirements/exceptions led to a continued deterioration of the rule's effectiveness.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Tom Brady is the coach of the bucs. Does it really matter ?

---

Not surprising, Byron has not done anything to suggest he's a headcoach in this league. But we have some of the dumbest fans in the entire NFL here between the Tim Tebow loving urban meyer apologist so it wasn't shocking.

What's Todd Bowles done again?

Oh that's right.. sucked [BLEEP] everywhere he's ever been.

That's kind of the point.. if Byron was such a good coach why would they not go with him? It's because he's not and the only people who thought he was are jaguar fans who liked the idea of having our old QB as the coach, and the... well the people who make everything about race and injustice blah blah.

---

(emphasis added)

Nothing except play QB in the NFL,  play on a Super Bowl winning team as a player, and be offensive coordinator for another Super Bowl winning team.  That is a better resume than Sean McVay and Zac Taylor when they first became head coaches in the league.

Sean NcVay's coachig career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...cVaSe0.htm

Zac Taylor's coaaching career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...aylZa0.htm

Byron Leftwich's playing career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...ftBy00.htm

Byron Leftwich's coaching career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...eftBy0.htm

For additional perspective

Doug Pederson's coaching career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...edeDo0.htm

Jon Gruden's coaching career

/www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/GrudJo0.htm

Considering most NFL head coaches have been coordinators before becoming first time NFL head coaches, you can make a strong argument that Byron Leftwich was more qualified to become a head coach than any of the other candidates listed above.  Zac Taylor had one year total as an offensive coordinator, and that was at the University of Cincinnati, NOT in the NFL.  Leftwich had 5 as an NFL OC.  Jon Gruden had three seasons as an OC before becoming a head coach.  Sean McVay had three seasons as an NFL OC before becoming a head coach.  Doug Pederson had 3 years as an NFL OC before becoming Eagles' HC.  None of the other guys listed won a Super Bowl or even reached a Super Bowl as an OC.  Leftwich did. 

With the above in mind, I do not understand the basis for suggesting Leftwich hasn't shown anything to suggest he could be a head coach in this league.  Not only did he have a longer NFL career than most of the other coaches named above, he spent more time as an offensive coordinator on the NFL level than all of the guys listed above before they were hired.

The presumption of being unqualified is exactly why things like the Rooney rule are needed.

Agree that Byron is more than qualified. He should get his chance soon, and it sounded like he was very close this past cycle. Disagree that the Rooney rule is helpful.

In what world is Byron qualified? He's been an OC for two seasons with putrid offensive results.. and 2 seasons with Tom Brady who i'm pretty sure my 90 year old grandmother could be the OC for and be succesful and she dosen't even watch the NFL.

---

What's Todd Bowles done again?

Oh that's right.. sucked [BLEEP] everywhere he's ever been.

That's kind of the point.. if Byron was such a good coach why would they not go with him? It's because he's not and the only people who thought he was are jaguar fans who liked the idea of having our old QB as the coach, and the... well the people who make everything about race and injustice blah blah.

---

Agree that Byron is more than qualified. He should get his chance soon, and it sounded like he was very close this past cycle. Disagree that the Rooney rule is helpful.

In what world is Byron qualified? He's been an OC for two seasons with putrid offensive results.. and 2 seasons with Tom Brady who i'm pretty sure my 90 year old grandmother could be the OC for and be succesful and she dosen't even watch the NFL.

Only 1 year was bad, his first year and the team was terrible. Even with Winston the offense was top 10 and close to top 5.


I'm not sure how this decision was made. I wonder if Leftwich said to give it to Bowles as his last chance. Leftwich knows he has options, Bowles had none. That team also has to rebuild and maybe they postpone that 1 year but the rebuild is coming. Leftwich may have not wanted that.

Bowles probably won't survive the contract and Tampa is looking at having to replace a QB and probably the OC in the next year.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

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I too am wondering why Leftwich didn't get the HC position.

NH3...

Look no further than Bowles 27 years of coaching experience to Leftwich's 7 years. 

If Arians comments and compliments from last year regarding Leftwich are sincere and accurate, Byron will get his shot at a head coaching gig soon enough.

27!?!?!?!!?!

good gravy now I feel old. I can remember watching him play.

---

---

Agree that Byron is more than qualified. He should get his chance soon, and it sounded like he was very close this past cycle. Disagree that the Rooney rule is helpful.

In what world is Byron qualified? He's been an OC for two seasons with putrid offensive results.. and 2 seasons with Tom Brady who i'm pretty sure my 90 year old grandmother could be the OC for and be succesful and she dosen't even watch the NFL.

(emphasis added)

In what world?

The real world.  The world where facts matter.

Did you examine the links?

Here's Leftwich's link again.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...ng_history

Keep in mind, he had two seasons with Tom Brady.  The year before his first with Brady, his QB was Jameis Winston.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...team_stats

In that season, withut Tom Brady, the Tampa offense ranked 1st in passing yards and 3rd in passing TDs and 3rd in scoring.

Given the career Brady had before coming to Tampa, he had enough clout that he could have made firing Leftwich a condition of him coming to Tampa or staying with Tampa more than a year or two.  But he did neither.  What Brady DID do was make his opinion on Leftwich clear.

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/tom...very-clear

“It’s just a matter of time for different guys — and different opportunities come up,” the superstar QB said, per Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times. “Byron has been amazing for me to work with. I know he’ll have a lot of opportunities.”

(Emphasis added)

In contrast

Sean McVay's stints as offensive coordinator before becoming Rams head coach

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...hing_ranks

In his 3 years as Washington OC, the highest scoring ranking was 14th, 13th in TDs, and he had one season in the top ten in passing yards ranking 2nd.  His teams in Washington did not win or reach a Super Bowl.  I would love an explanation as to how McVay had proven definitively that he was head coaching material while Leftwich had more years and better results as an OC and abd has proven nothing.

I won't even bother with Zac Taylor, considering the one season Taylor had as an OC was at the college level.

Jon Gruden's best ranking in terms of points scored was 9th.

So again, how could you have no problem with their qualifications to be head coach when they had less coordinator experience and inferior results to Leftwich?

At what point does fact, experience, and merit actually factor into your evaluation?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

---

In what world is Byron qualified? He's been an OC for two seasons with putrid offensive results.. and 2 seasons with Tom Brady who i'm pretty sure my 90 year old grandmother could be the OC for and be succesful and she dosen't even watch the NFL.

(emphasis added)

In what world?

The real world.  The world where facts matter.

Did you examine the links?

Here's Leftwich's link again.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...ng_history

Keep in mind, he had two seasons with Tom Brady.  The year before his first with Brady, his QB was Jameis Winston.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/t...team_stats

In that season, withut Tom Brady, the Tampa offense ranked 1st in passing yards and 3rd in passing TDs and 3rd in scoring.

Given the career Brady had before coming to Tampa, he had enough clout that he could have made firing Leftwich a condition of him coming to Tampa or staying with Tampa more than a year or two.  But he did neither.  What Brady DID do was make his opinion on Leftwich clear.

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/tom...very-clear

“It’s just a matter of time for different guys — and different opportunities come up,” the superstar QB said, per Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times. “Byron has been amazing for me to work with. I know he’ll have a lot of opportunities.”

(Emphasis added)

In contrast

Sean McVay's stints as offensive coordinator before becoming Rams head coach

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/c...hing_ranks

In his 3 years as Washington OC, the highest scoring ranking was 14th, 13th in TDs, and he had one season in the top ten in passing yards ranking 2nd.  His teams in Washington did not win or reach a Super Bowl.  I would love an explanation as to how McVay had proven definitively that he was head coaching material while Leftwich had more years and better results as an OC and abd has proven nothing.

I won't even bother with Zac Taylor, considering the one season Taylor had as an OC was at the college level.

Jon Gruden's best ranking in terms of points scored was 9th.

So again, how could you have no problem with their qualifications to be head coach when they had less coordinator experience and inferior results to Leftwich?

At what point does fact, experience, and merit actually factor into your evaluation?

Officer, I'd like to report a murder.

---

Quote:
“It’s just a matter of time for different guys — and different opportunities come up,” the superstar QB said, per Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times. “Byron has been amazing for me to work with. I know he’ll have a lot of opportunities.”

Lol..... Brady should have stated, I'm sure he'll get opportunities to be a head coach, but it sure as hell is not going to be here as long as I am playing.

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I like Bowles. I'll give him a mulligan with what happened at the Jets. In recent history, it's been a poorly run franchise.

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That's kind of the point.. if Byron was such a good coach why would they not go with him? It's because he's not and the only people who thought he was are jaguar fans who liked the idea of having our old QB as the coach, and the... well the people who make everything about race and injustice blah blah.

---

In what world is Byron qualified? He's been an OC for two seasons with putrid offensive results.. and 2 seasons with Tom Brady who i'm pretty sure my 90 year old grandmother could be the OC for and be succesful and she dosen't even watch the NFL.

Only 1 year was bad, his first year and the team was terrible. Even with Winston the offense was top 10 and close to top 5.


I'm not sure how this decision was made. I wonder if Leftwich said to give it to Bowles as his last chance. Leftwich knows he has options, Bowles had none. That team also has to rebuild and maybe they postpone that 1 year but the rebuild is coming. Leftwich may have not wanted that.

Bowles probably won't survive the contract and Tampa is looking at having to replace a QB and probably the OC in the next year.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Okay first off. "His offense was top 10 with winston"

top 10 in what, yards? Of course it was.. all they did that year was chuck it deep and we got a 30 td 30 int QB. Maybe by rankings that offense was top 10, but realisticly it was bottom of the barrel. And btw, they had two WRs who would be a #1 on about 28 of the 32 teams in the league.

I'm actually happy Byron didn't get the Bucs job, because he would have once again been riding a wave of success that was coming with or without him with Tom Brady. I hope he gets a shot somewhere next year that dosen't have the best player in league history starting a QB so I can laugh in everyones face who tells me I'm wrong about everything I say.

Oh wait, that's happened on here more times than I can count and it's just ignored so why even bother lmao. We picked the best HC Candidate that was available to us in Pederson. Now watch the jaguars become relevant again over the next few years.. and then go back to the HC vacancy thread when I said my #1 was Pederson prior to him even being rumored to us so I can laugh in the face of my haters on this board LOL

---

Only 1 year was bad, his first year and the team was terrible. Even with Winston the offense was top 10 and close to top 5.


I'm not sure how this decision was made. I wonder if Leftwich said to give it to Bowles as his last chance. Leftwich knows he has options, Bowles had none. That team also has to rebuild and maybe they postpone that 1 year but the rebuild is coming. Leftwich may have not wanted that.

Bowles probably won't survive the contract and Tampa is looking at having to replace a QB and probably the OC in the next year.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Okay first off. "His offense was top 10 with winston"

top 10 in what, yards? Of course it was.. all they did that year was chuck it deep and we got a 30 td 30 int QB. Maybe by rankings that offense was top 10, but realisticly it was bottom of the barrel. And btw, they had two WRs who would be a #1 on about 28 of the 32 teams in the league.

First off, under Leftwich, the 2019 Tampa team was 1st in yards passing and 3rd in passing TDs, and the team was 3rd in scoring, averaging 28.6 PPG.  If all they did was chuck it deep, you'd think opposing defenses would have caught up and adjusted. Either they adjusted and BL adjusted to make the offense continue to be effective, or perhaps there was more to that Tampa offense than just chucking it deep.  Looking at their rankings, they were 14th in the league in rushing attempts and 15th in rushing TDs.  But your point about the WRs being so good (taking that at face value) begs the question:  Don't smart coaches play to the strengths of their teams?  If the Bucs had two WRs that dominant, why wouldn't they utilize them frequently? Indeed, Leftwich's two years with Brady, featured an offense that ranked bear the very bottom in rushing attempts.   Finally, how in the world does an offense rank 1st in passing yards, 3rd in passing TDs and 3rd in scoring, averaging more than 28 ppg realistically be bottom of the barrel?!?

I'm actually happy Byron didn't get the Bucs job, because he would have once again been riding a wave of success that was coming with or without him with Tom Brady. I hope he gets a shot somewhere next year that dosen't have the best player in league history starting a QB so I can laugh in everyones face who tells me I'm wrong about everything I say.

(emphasis added)

So if I am understanding you, he had the best player in league history starting at QB throwing to two WRs who could start at the #1 WR spot for  about 28 out of 32 teams.  At the very least, he would be expected to have a productive offense and at least contend for Super Bowls, right?
Well, Leftiwch won the Super Bowl his first year with Brady, and lost in the last seconds after scoring 27 points to a Rams team what won the Super Bowl the next year.  In 2020, the Bucs ranked 3rd in scoring with Brady, and the nexr year, they ranked 2nd.  By all reasonable and objective measures, he met the expectations.  What's the problem?!?  There is nothing to indicate he was some anchor weighing the offense down.

As for people telling you you are wrong, your persuasiveness might be bolstered if you offered takes supported by objective fact and logical consistency.  You talk about Leftwich's lack of head coach qualifications, but don't address the disparity in experience as a player and coordinator between Leftwich and the other coaches I named, nor did you address the disparity in results between Leftiwch and the other coaches I named.  For that matter, not once did you show any facts (as opposed to opinion) supporting your claim that his offense's success was some how in spite of him.

Oh wait, that's happened on here more times than I can count and it's just ignored so why even bother lmao. We picked the best HC Candidate that was available to us in Pederson. Now watch the jaguars become relevant again over the next few years.. and then go back to the HC vacancy thread when I said my #1 was Pederson prior to him even being rumored to us so I can laugh in the face of my haters on this board LOL

First, we agree on Pederson.  I have been an advocate for Pederson since he was fired by the Eagles.  There are objective and verifiable reasons for my advocacy for Pederson.  First...he coached a team to a Super bowl win!  Secondly, he has a history of successfully getting the most out of QBs, including developing and utilizing the TE position. Furthermore, he had head coaching experience, while Leftwich did not.  Given his NFL playing and head coaching experience, his Super Bowl win, and hisstory of developing QBs, he was the ideal choice for a team with a young franchise signal caller who was coached by an unmitigated disaster of a coach who had no NFL experience whatsoever.  Again, those are objective, readily verifiable facts.

However, saying that Leftwich was not the best choice for us at this time is far different from saying Leftiwch has shown nothing at all to indicate he is head coaching material, which is what you have asserted, wholly unsupported by objective fact or logic or their comparative resumes.

Bit of friendly advice:  This board is loaded with smart, knowledgeable, passionate and opinionated fans who are capable of handing you your [BLEEP] in a given debate.  I won't list anyone in particular because it wouldn't necessarily do justice to the others who exemplify this, but trust me when I tell you I've been on the receiving end of those plenty of times.  As a Jaguars fan you have every right to your opinion like anyone else but using that right alone does not make you persuasive.  Even if we ultimately disagree with you, we'll appreciate efforts to support your assertions with fact and logic.  I would encourage you to study the posting styles of some of the posters.  You'll identify those who are thorough, and hopefully you will emulate them.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Look no further than Bowles 27 years of coaching experience to Leftwich's 7 years. 

If Arians comments and compliments from last year regarding Leftwich are sincere and accurate, Byron will get his shot at a head coaching gig soon enough.

27!?!?!?!!?!

good gravy now I feel old. I can remember watching him play.

Damn time flies doesn't it?

I realized how fast it comes when I see players in the league who had fathers I remember playing in the league.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

27!?!?!?!!?!

good gravy now I feel old. I can remember watching him play.

Damn time flies doesn't it?

I realized how fast it comes when I see players in the league who had fathers I remember playing in the league.

Yes it does...I have a first edition of the book "Instant Replay" written by Jerry Kramer.  As for Leftwich, while I felt we were not a good fit for him.  He will make a good HC for someone. He MAY have succeeded here but hated to see him take that risk with his career. He has since college done nothing but work very hard to get where he is it would be a shame to see him walk into our dumpster fire.  Not a good place for a first time head coach.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Okay first off. "His offense was top 10 with winston"

top 10 in what, yards? Of course it was.. all they did that year was chuck it deep and we got a 30 td 30 int QB. Maybe by rankings that offense was top 10, but realisticly it was bottom of the barrel. And btw, they had two WRs who would be a #1 on about 28 of the 32 teams in the league.

First off, under Leftwich, the 2019 Tampa team was 1st in yards passing and 3rd in passing TDs, and the team was 3rd in scoring, averaging 28.6 PPG.  If all they did was chuck it deep, you'd think opposing defenses would have caught up and adjusted. Either they adjusted and BL adjusted to make the offense continue to be effective, or perhaps there was more to that Tampa offense than just chucking it deep.  Looking at their rankings, they were 14th in the league in rushing attempts and 15th in rushing TDs.  But your point about the WRs being so good (taking that at face value) begs the question:  Don't smart coaches play to the strengths of their teams?  If the Bucs had two WRs that dominant, why wouldn't they utilize them frequently? Indeed, Leftwich's two years with Brady, featured an offense that ranked bear the very bottom in rushing attempts.   Finally, how in the world does an offense rank 1st in passing yards, 3rd in passing TDs and 3rd in scoring, averaging more than 28 ppg realistically be bottom of the barrel?!?

"Bottom of the barrel" is going too far, but you are also completely failing to mention the fact that the 2019 Bucs were DEAD LAST in giveaways.  Not below average, not bottom third, not ranked 31st.  Their offense was 32 out of 32 teams in giveaways.  Winston had his career high in interceptions and it isn't even remotely close.   Any team could inflate their yardage totals if they were willing to risk a ton of interceptions.  If you don't think interceptions matter, then you must think Blake Bortles was a good quarterback.

---

First off, under Leftwich, the 2019 Tampa team was 1st in yards passing and 3rd in passing TDs, and the team was 3rd in scoring, averaging 28.6 PPG.  If all they did was chuck it deep, you'd think opposing defenses would have caught up and adjusted. Either they adjusted and BL adjusted to make the offense continue to be effective, or perhaps there was more to that Tampa offense than just chucking it deep.  Looking at their rankings, they were 14th in the league in rushing attempts and 15th in rushing TDs.  But your point about the WRs being so good (taking that at face value) begs the question:  Don't smart coaches play to the strengths of their teams?  If the Bucs had two WRs that dominant, why wouldn't they utilize them frequently? Indeed, Leftwich's two years with Brady, featured an offense that ranked bear the very bottom in rushing attempts.   Finally, how in the world does an offense rank 1st in passing yards, 3rd in passing TDs and 3rd in scoring, averaging more than 28 ppg realistically be bottom of the barrel?!?

"Bottom of the barrel" is going too far, but you are also completely failing to mention the fact that the 2019 Bucs were DEAD LAST in giveaways.  Not below average, not bottom third, not ranked 31st.  Their offense was 32 out of 32 teams in giveaways.  Winston had his career high in interceptions and it isn't even remotely close.   Any team could inflate their yardage totals if they were willing to risk a ton of interceptions.  If you don't think interceptions matter, then you must think Blake Bortles was a good quarterback.

INTs DO matter, but that isn't necessarily the result of poor playcalling or poor offensive design...things that would indicate a faulty offensive coordinator.  The same offensive coordinator running many of the similar plays finished 3rd in scoring the very next year and won the Super Bowl, and the QB did not throw 30 INTs.  Brady threw 12 INTs. In 2021, Brady threw 12 INTs again.  The positive offensive output was consistent over those three years, but the turnovers decreased.  If BLs presence had nothing to do with the positive offense output and causes QBs to throw higher INTs , explain that. 

My mandate in this debate was not to show it's impossible for BLs offense to perform poorly in some areas, but to show there is some basis to think he may be a good head coach.  Considering the Bucs offense finished 3rd or higher in scoring for three straight seasons, only two of which were with Brady, there is ample reason to think he may have something to offer as a head coach, especially in light of the other successful head coaches I listed who had less experience and success as offensive coordinators than BL has had.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Okay first off. "His offense was top 10 with winston"

top 10 in what, yards? Of course it was.. all they did that year was chuck it deep and we got a 30 td 30 int QB. Maybe by rankings that offense was top 10, but realisticly it was bottom of the barrel. And btw, they had two WRs who would be a #1 on about 28 of the 32 teams in the league.

First off, under Leftwich, the 2019 Tampa team was 1st in yards passing and 3rd in passing TDs, and the team was 3rd in scoring, averaging 28.6 PPG.  If all they did was chuck it deep, you'd think opposing defenses would have caught up and adjusted. Either they adjusted and BL adjusted to make the offense continue to be effective, or perhaps there was more to that Tampa offense than just chucking it deep.  Looking at their rankings, they were 14th in the league in rushing attempts and 15th in rushing TDs.  But your point about the WRs being so good (taking that at face value) begs the question:  Don't smart coaches play to the strengths of their teams?  If the Bucs had two WRs that dominant, why wouldn't they utilize them frequently? Indeed, Leftwich's two years with Brady, featured an offense that ranked bear the very bottom in rushing attempts.   Finally, how in the world does an offense rank 1st in passing yards, 3rd in passing TDs and 3rd in scoring, averaging more than 28 ppg realistically be bottom of the barrel?!?

I'm actually happy Byron didn't get the Bucs job, because he would have once again been riding a wave of success that was coming with or without him with Tom Brady. I hope he gets a shot somewhere next year that dosen't have the best player in league history starting a QB so I can laugh in everyones face who tells me I'm wrong about everything I say.

(emphasis added)

So if I am understanding you, he had the best player in league history starting at QB throwing to two WRs who could start at the #1 WR spot for  about 28 out of 32 teams.  At the very least, he would be expected to have a productive offense and at least contend for Super Bowls, right?
Well, Leftiwch won the Super Bowl his first year with Brady, and lost in the last seconds after scoring 27 points to a Rams team what won the Super Bowl the next year.  In 2020, the Bucs ranked 3rd in scoring with Brady, and the nexr year, they ranked 2nd.  By all reasonable and objective measures, he met the expectations.  What's the problem?!?  There is nothing to indicate he was some anchor weighing the offense down.

As for people telling you you are wrong, your persuasiveness might be bolstered if you offered takes supported by objective fact and logical consistency.  You talk about Leftwich's lack of head coach qualifications, but don't address the disparity in experience as a player and coordinator between Leftwich and the other coaches I named, nor did you address the disparity in results between Leftiwch and the other coaches I named.  For that matter, not once did you show any facts (as opposed to opinion) supporting your claim that his offense's success was some how in spite of him.

Oh wait, that's happened on here more times than I can count and it's just ignored so why even bother lmao. We picked the best HC Candidate that was available to us in Pederson. Now watch the jaguars become relevant again over the next few years.. and then go back to the HC vacancy thread when I said my #1 was Pederson prior to him even being rumored to us so I can laugh in the face of my haters on this board LOL

First, we agree on Pederson.  I have been an advocate for Pederson since he was fired by the Eagles.  There are objective and verifiable reasons for my advocacy for Pederson.  First...he coached a team to a Super bowl win!  Secondly, he has a history of successfully getting the most out of QBs, including developing and utilizing the TE position. Furthermore, he had head coaching experience, while Leftwich did not.  Given his NFL playing and head coaching experience, his Super Bowl win, and hisstory of developing QBs, he was the ideal choice for a team with a young franchise signal caller who was coached by an unmitigated disaster of a coach who had no NFL experience whatsoever.  Again, those are objective, readily verifiable facts.

However, saying that Leftwich was not the best choice for us at this time is far different from saying Leftiwch has shown nothing at all to indicate he is head coaching material, which is what you have asserted, wholly unsupported by objective fact or logic or their comparative resumes.

Bit of friendly advice:  This board is loaded with smart, knowledgeable, passionate and opinionated fans who are capable of handing you your [BLEEP] in a given debate.  I won't list anyone in particular because it wouldn't necessarily do justice to the others who exemplify this, but trust me when I tell you I've been on the receiving end of those plenty of times.  As a Jaguars fan you have every right to your opinion like anyone else but using that right alone does not make you persuasive.  Even if we ultimately disagree with you, we'll appreciate efforts to support your assertions with fact and logic.  I would encourage you to study the posting styles of some of the posters.  You'll identify those who are thorough, and hopefully you will emulate them.

These smart, knowledgeable, passionate and opinionated fans have consistently for years, told me i'm wrong.. and for years, they have been wrong. Dating back to 2014 when I said hours after the draft that I didn't see the talent in Bortles, to the previous year when I said Trevor Lawrence did not look like a generational talent (prior to us even having the 1st pick).....or how about when I said Patrick Mahomes was the best QB in the '17 class, and was told by most of these knowledgeable fans that Mitch Trubiski was a "safer bet". 

It dosen't matter. People gon hate no matter whos right. Overall it dosen't matter anyways, I come to this board to chat about the jaguars from time to time it's not my job or my life like it is for some people here. 

I would say we should come back to this thread whenever Byron gets his first HC gig to see if I was right again, but let's be honest.. No one will remember.


Oh and also to your first point about Byron.. yeah he won with Brady, tell me what he did prior to Brady.

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"Bottom of the barrel" is going too far, but you are also completely failing to mention the fact that the 2019 Bucs were DEAD LAST in giveaways.  Not below average, not bottom third, not ranked 31st.  Their offense was 32 out of 32 teams in giveaways.  Winston had his career high in interceptions and it isn't even remotely close.   Any team could inflate their yardage totals if they were willing to risk a ton of interceptions.  If you don't think interceptions matter, then you must think Blake Bortles was a good quarterback.

INTs DO matter, but that isn't necessarily the result of poor playcalling or poor offensive design...things that would indicate a faulty offensive coordinator.  The same offensive coordinator running many of the similar plays finished 3rd in scoring the very next year and won the Super Bowl, and the QB did not throw 30 INTs.  Brady threw 12 INTs. In 2021, Brady threw 12 INTs again.  The positive offensive output was consistent over those three years, but the turnovers decreased.  If BLs presence had nothing to do with the positive offense output and causes QBs to throw higher INTs , explain that. 

My mandate in this debate was not to show it's impossible for BLs offense to perform poorly in some areas, but to show there is some basis to think he may be a good head coach.  Considering the Bucs offense finished 3rd or higher in scoring for three straight seasons, only two of which were with Brady, there is ample reason to think he may have something to offer as a head coach, especially in light of the other successful head coaches I listed who had less experience and success as offensive coordinators than BL has had.

Saying that the Ints aren't the result of poor playcalling or poor design is almost as bad as if I were to say his TD's weren't a result of GOOD playcalling/design.

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INTs DO matter, but that isn't necessarily the result of poor playcalling or poor offensive design...things that would indicate a faulty offensive coordinator.  The same offensive coordinator running many of the similar plays finished 3rd in scoring the very next year and won the Super Bowl, and the QB did not throw 30 INTs.  Brady threw 12 INTs. In 2021, Brady threw 12 INTs again.  The positive offensive output was consistent over those three years, but the turnovers decreased.  If BLs presence had nothing to do with the positive offense output and causes QBs to throw higher INTs , explain that. 

My mandate in this debate was not to show it's impossible for BLs offense to perform poorly in some areas, but to show there is some basis to think he may be a good head coach.  Considering the Bucs offense finished 3rd or higher in scoring for three straight seasons, only two of which were with Brady, there is ample reason to think he may have something to offer as a head coach, especially in light of the other successful head coaches I listed who had less experience and success as offensive coordinators than BL has had.

Saying that the Ints aren't the result of poor playcalling or poor design is almost as bad as if I were to say his TD's weren't a result of GOOD playcalling/design.

1.  Then explain what happened with the INTs.  The same offensive coordinator under the same head coach using mostly the same scheme had similar offensive input but the QB had 18 fewer INTs.  Either the personnel matters and lesser QBs should be expected to not perform as well as greater QBs, or between 2019 and 2020, Leftwich learned to call better plays in terms of situational context and better designed plays with dramatically better results.  You choose.

2.  When you say BL has given ZERO indication that he is head coaching material, that's exactly what you are tacitly saying...that all of the interceptions Winston threw were exclusively the fault of BLs play calling and play design.  Perhaps if you could demonstrate that in 2019, BL gave Winston exclusively one read plays and instructed Winston to throw to that one read irrespective of the down and distance and coverage presented, or that there were no complementary routes by the receivers, drawing coverage to the one read.  But to do so, you'd have to prove:

A.  All of these plays were exclusively one read plays and Winston had no other choice by offensive design to throw to that one read;

B.  How the offense was so inept by design (i.e. no complementary routes) WInston had no choice but to throw 30 INTs;  (Related question:  In 1993, Brett Favre, coached by Mike Holmgren, threw 24 INTs to 19 TDs).  Was Holmgren (the head coach who called the plays for the Packers) a bad playcaller?  Were his pffenses so poorly designed it was impossible for Favre to not throw INTs?

C.  If all of the plays were one read/poorly designed with no regard to situation, how they managed to score 28.6 ppg.  There must have been some truly idiotic defensive coordinators on the schedule;

D.  How the Bucs managed to win seven games that year;

E.  How Arians managed to keep his job knowingly hiring an offensive coordinator who so poorly called and designed plays;

F.  You specifically mentioned the Bucs having two dominant receivers who could be the #1 WRs on 28 of the 32 teams in the league.  How would you know that?  If the plays were one read plays irrespective of down and distance and the defense presented, how could any of the receivers produce enough to justify your assessment of them?  If there were no complementary routes, there would be no routes be TEs and slot receivers to occupy deep safeties on deep routes.  There would be no routes to clear out underneath coverage for intermediate routes.  There would be no rubs/picks to help loosen tight man coverage.  What would be the basis for you to make that claim about their abilities?

3.  You have still remained silent on the issue of BL's performance as an OC in direct comparison to the coaches I've named.  If BL's offenses have performed better than their offenses, how did they deserve the shot to be a head coach and he did not using their performance as OC?  I provided the links for you.  Based upon their performance as OC, what made them more qualified than BL to be head coaches?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

First off, under Leftwich, the 2019 Tampa team was 1st in yards passing and 3rd in passing TDs, and the team was 3rd in scoring, averaging 28.6 PPG.  If all they did was chuck it deep, you'd think opposing defenses would have caught up and adjusted. Either they adjusted and BL adjusted to make the offense continue to be effective, or perhaps there was more to that Tampa offense than just chucking it deep.  Looking at their rankings, they were 14th in the league in rushing attempts and 15th in rushing TDs.  But your point about the WRs being so good (taking that at face value) begs the question:  Don't smart coaches play to the strengths of their teams?  If the Bucs had two WRs that dominant, why wouldn't they utilize them frequently? Indeed, Leftwich's two years with Brady, featured an offense that ranked bear the very bottom in rushing attempts.   Finally, how in the world does an offense rank 1st in passing yards, 3rd in passing TDs and 3rd in scoring, averaging more than 28 ppg realistically be bottom of the barrel?!?

(emphasis added)

So if I am understanding you, he had the best player in league history starting at QB throwing to two WRs who could start at the #1 WR spot for  about 28 out of 32 teams.  At the very least, he would be expected to have a productive offense and at least contend for Super Bowls, right?
Well, Leftiwch won the Super Bowl his first year with Brady, and lost in the last seconds after scoring 27 points to a Rams team what won the Super Bowl the next year.  In 2020, the Bucs ranked 3rd in scoring with Brady, and the nexr year, they ranked 2nd.  By all reasonable and objective measures, he met the expectations.  What's the problem?!?  There is nothing to indicate he was some anchor weighing the offense down.

As for people telling you you are wrong, your persuasiveness might be bolstered if you offered takes supported by objective fact and logical consistency.  You talk about Leftwich's lack of head coach qualifications, but don't address the disparity in experience as a player and coordinator between Leftwich and the other coaches I named, nor did you address the disparity in results between Leftiwch and the other coaches I named.  For that matter, not once did you show any facts (as opposed to opinion) supporting your claim that his offense's success was some how in spite of him.


First, we agree on Pederson.  I have been an advocate for Pederson since he was fired by the Eagles.  There are objective and verifiable reasons for my advocacy for Pederson.  First...he coached a team to a Super bowl win!  Secondly, he has a history of successfully getting the most out of QBs, including developing and utilizing the TE position. Furthermore, he had head coaching experience, while Leftwich did not.  Given his NFL playing and head coaching experience, his Super Bowl win, and hisstory of developing QBs, he was the ideal choice for a team with a young franchise signal caller who was coached by an unmitigated disaster of a coach who had no NFL experience whatsoever.  Again, those are objective, readily verifiable facts.

However, saying that Leftwich was not the best choice for us at this time is far different from saying Leftwich has shown nothing at all to indicate he is head coaching material, which is what you have asserted, wholly unsupported by objective fact or logic or their comparative resumes.

Bit of friendly advice:  This board is loaded with smart, knowledgeable, passionate and opinionated fans who are capable of handing you your [BLEEP] in a given debate.  I won't list anyone in particular because it wouldn't necessarily do justice to the others who exemplify this, but trust me when I tell you I've been on the receiving end of those plenty of times.  As a Jaguars fan you have every right to your opinion like anyone else but using that right alone does not make you persuasive.  Even if we ultimately disagree with you, we'll appreciate efforts to support your assertions with fact and logic.  I would encourage you to study the posting styles of some of the posters.  You'll identify those who are thorough, and hopefully you will emulate them.

These smart, knowledgeable, passionate and opinionated fans have consistently for years, told me i'm wrong.. and for years, they have been wrong. Dating back to 2014 when I said hours after the draft that I didn't see the talent in Bortles, to the previous year when I said Trevor Lawrence did not look like a generational talent (prior to us even having the 1st pick).....or how about when I said Patrick Mahomes was the best QB in the '17 class, and was told by most of these knowledgeable fans that Mitch Trubiski was a "safer bet". 

It dosen't matter. People gon hate no matter whos right. Overall it dosen't matter anyways, I come to this board to chat about the jaguars from time to time it's not my job or my life like it is for some people here. 

I would say we should come back to this thread whenever Byron gets his first HC gig to see if I was right again, but let's be honest.. No one will remember.


Oh and also to your first point about Byron.. yeah he won with Brady, tell me what he did prior to Brady.

Have you been posting under another name all this time?  This board can bring up posts dating back several years to the Gus Bradley era.  If you've been posting here all this time, you should have no problem showing your receipts for your prescient and insightful commentary.  Otherwise, you are offering wholly unsupported claptrap.  But at least that's consistent, I'll give you that.

What do you mean this board is not your job or your life?!?  Heresy, I say!!    Didn't you know that once you post here you are on call 24 hours a day with a mandate to post?!?     But seriously, supporting your assertions with fact and logic isn't particularly burdensome, unless you have no fact and logic on your side, or you areotherwise not used to doing so on the board or in real life.  Either way, it invariably results in the eye rolling responses or "hating" you are getting now.

I can assure you, it's not merely a matter of you going against a particular board paradigm. I've have taken many such stances over the years here.  I actually encourage people to take the occasional contrarian non trolling view.  But if you are to avoid the "hating" you are complaining about, do a better job of presenting your arguments.

As for my BL point, already addressed repeatedly in this thread.  But a related question to you.  What did Bill Belicheck do before Brady?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

First off, under Leftwich, the 2019 Tampa team was 1st in yards passing and 3rd in passing TDs, and the team was 3rd in scoring, averaging 28.6 PPG.  If all they did was chuck it deep, you'd think opposing defenses would have caught up and adjusted. Either they adjusted and BL adjusted to make the offense continue to be effective, or perhaps there was more to that Tampa offense than just chucking it deep.  Looking at their rankings, they were 14th in the league in rushing attempts and 15th in rushing TDs.  But your point about the WRs being so good (taking that at face value) begs the question:  Don't smart coaches play to the strengths of their teams?  If the Bucs had two WRs that dominant, why wouldn't they utilize them frequently? Indeed, Leftwich's two years with Brady, featured an offense that ranked bear the very bottom in rushing attempts.   Finally, how in the world does an offense rank 1st in passing yards, 3rd in passing TDs and 3rd in scoring, averaging more than 28 ppg realistically be bottom of the barrel?!?

"Bottom of the barrel" is going too far, but you are also completely failing to mention the fact that the 2019 Bucs were DEAD LAST in giveaways.  Not below average, not bottom third, not ranked 31st.  Their offense was 32 out of 32 teams in giveaways.  Winston had his career high in interceptions and it isn't even remotely close.   Any team could inflate their yardage totals if they were willing to risk a ton of interceptions.  If you don't think interceptions matter, then you must think Blake Bortles was a good quarterback.

Lol, leaves out the most important.  Not only was it dead last, it was the most Ints thrown in a season all time.  I remember when Olsen got a lot of heat here the year Blake threw 18 picks and we had 2 thousand yard WRs, people were calling for his head and he did get fired that year.  Byron can thank God that Brady returned, he might get a HC gig now, Brady will always have his offenses top of the league regardless of the OC or HC.  Most first time HCs don't get to come in and bark orders on who their GM is going to be.  I think Byron might be able to be a good HC but its really an unknown being Brady is his QB and is he a leader of 53 men?  Not sure but no other teams fans wanted Byron outside of this fan base, if he didn't play here before everyone wouldn't of wanted him like they did.  When you bring in a OC to be a HC it's much more than is he just a good offensive play caller.

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