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Bruce Arians retiring and moving in the front office
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04-04-2022, 07:29 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2022, 09:35 PM by Bullseye. Edited 5 times in total.)
(04-03-2022, 04:36 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote:(04-02-2022, 08:18 PM)Bullseye Wrote: INTs DO matter, but that isn't necessarily the result of poor playcalling or poor offensive design...things that would indicate a faulty offensive coordinator. The same offensive coordinator running many of the similar plays finished 3rd in scoring the very next year and won the Super Bowl, and the QB did not throw 30 INTs. Brady threw 12 INTs. In 2021, Brady threw 12 INTs again. The positive offensive output was consistent over those three years, but the turnovers decreased. If BLs presence had nothing to do with the positive offense output and causes QBs to throw higher INTs , explain that. Interesting reply on any number of levels. In your first paragraph, you discuss the greatness of Tom Brady and how at this stage of his career he doesn't need coaching. It's not a point wholly without merit. However, it also doesn't come without inconsistency. For instance, if a player can be so great he doesn't need coaching, isn't it possible...even probable that a player could be so bad that no amount of coaching can help him be a productive NFL QB? In your second paragraph, you noted that BL coached Rosen (then a rookie) for half a season, and the season was statistically horrible offensively. But since he left Arizona, Rosen left the Cardinals too. Rosen went to Miami via trade after the one year, then he went to SF only to be cut in preseason, and is currently with Atlanta. But none of the other offensive minds who coached him got anything good out of him, either. But you and the other guy still hold all of that against BL. Why? If you are going to completely disregard BL's experience with Tom Brady, an all time great, why not disregard the half season he was saddled with a complete bust in Josh Rosen? For that matter, why hold Brady's greatness against Leftwich at all? Let's look at a guy who most consider to be the gold standard of coaches...Bill Belichick. This is what he had to work with as a defensive coordinator with the Giants, before he got his first NFL head coaching job. Lawrence Taylor, Hall of Famer, member of NFL's 75th and 100th anniversary All time teams. Harry Caron, Hall of Famer Carl Banks, Pro Bowler Pepper Johnson, Pro Bowler Leonard Marshall, Pro Bowler Jim Burt, Pro bowler Terry Kinard, Pro Bowler Everson Walls, Pro Bowler Was that abundance of talent on that side of the ball held against him negatively?!? Of course not. The embarrassment of riches he's had to work with has been even more shocking when you look at what he had to work with as a head coach. Over the course of his coaching career as an coordinator and a head coach, Bill Belicheck coached SIX (6) guys on the NFL's all time 1005h anniversary list: Junior Seau Tom Brady Adam Vinatieri Rob Gronkowski Randy Moss To say nothing of other Hall of Famers who didn't make the All time 100th Anniversary team like Richard Seymour, Ty Law to say nothing of guys who have yet to make the Hall of Fame but are strong candidates to do so: Darelle Revis Vince Wilfork Logan Mankins Aqib Talib or to say nothing of Pro bowlers who may not be Hall of Famers Matt Light Rodney Harrison Willie McGinest Lawyer Milloy Tedy Bruschi Jerod Mayo Wes Welker Dan Koppen Damien Woody Were there any times during his career when he didn't have the overwhelming abundance of talent? Yes. When he got his first head coaching gig in Cleveland he had one (1) winning season in five (5) years. So why isn't that abundance of talent used against him the way it is with BL? There are similar analysis to be made with other coaches Chuck Noll coaches the Steelers to be the team of the 1970s, winning four Super Bowls. He coached numerous Hall of Famers, including QB Terry Bradshaw RB Franco Harris WR Lynn Swann WR John Stallworth C Mike Webster (member of 75h & 100th anniversary all time teams) DL Joe Greene (member of 75th & 100th anniversary all time teams LB Jack Ham (member 75th and 100th anniversary all time team) LB Jack Lambert (member 75th & 100th anniversary all time team) CB Mel Blount (member 75th and 100th anniversary all time team S Donnie Shell and this doesn't factor in L.C. Greenwood who SHOULD be in the Hall of Fame, but isn't, having made 6 Pro bowls, been on the All decade team, and with 4 Super Bowl rings. When those players began to retire, the Steelers fell off dramatically, and never went to another Super Bowl until Noll was replaced in the 1990s by Bill Cowher. So if Noll didn't achieve anything of substance as a coach until he got hall of famers on his roster, why doesn't his accomplishments get discredited like BLs? There is a similar dynamic with the current coaches. The guy coaching the Chargers coached a guy who is headed for the Hall of Fame in Aaron Donald. In fact, he (Donald)might be headed for one of those anniversary type teams. Furthermore, as much as it will sicken many here, Ramsey may be joining him at least in Canton Yet nobody holds that against him as a coach, even though last year,he had one of the Bosa brothers, a great player in his own right, and they couldn't stop anyone. But his success as a coordinator wasn't held against him because he has two likely Hall of Famers. The fact is, coaches need talent to be successful. It's spectaculrly disingenuous to hold BL responsible for not producing with a documented bust like Josh Rosen, yet disregard his accomplishments with a great QB and not do the same to other coaches, nor have any of you expressed anything approaching a compelling reason why such a double standard would be utilized. As for the interceptions I "conveniently" omitted, I provided MULTIPLE links to the very information you complained I omitted, all in plain view for anyone choosing to avail themselves of the facts. I even gave the poster tips on how to be more compelling. Though I try to be generous, I clearly exceeded that standard here and have zero obligation to make his argument for him, particularly when he expressly rejected the idea of supporting his assertions with anything of substance. Worst to 1st. Curse Reversed!
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