Can he help Trevor on offense? Seems like a reach pick.

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This was not a reach at all. This was getting a premium player at the perfect time. Muma is one hell of a linebacker. Very instinctive. Very rangy. Will get in there and mix it up immediately on day one. I like the idea of him playing inside next to Oluokun within a 3 - 4 base package. Allows guys like Allen, Walker & Lloyd to get after the QB with little fear of a RB or TE sneaking out over the middle or out on the edge with these two guys being able to break out fast enough to keep pace in coverage.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

A lot of people had him going in the first round. Washington fans was wanting him in round 1. I guess I didn’t think we would spend 2 picks on LB in the first 70 picks.

At least Henry and Taylor won’t run for 200 yards on us.

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The run defense was atrocious at times last year. I was pointing this out in a few games. It's true though. If you can't stop Henry or Taylor you're losing valuable possession time for Lawrence on offense anyways. So, in the long run. Improving the overall level of play on defense while cutting back on mistakes offensively in year two for Lawrence should bode well for the team in general.

You don't have to worry about getting into a shoot out if your defense is shooting for the fences on every play and demolishing the running game or terrorizing the QB. I like what they have done so far in this draft. Even starting to warm up to the idea of Walker being strictly a pass rushing OLB at this point that already has a nose and knack for finding the football in the event it stays on the ground.

Also, again, they have plenty of picks to get back up into RD4 here in a few hours this afternoon if they think they can find another solid option offensively.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Can he help Trevor on offense? Seems like a reach pick.

No, this was not a reach.  We are lucky he was available.  I do think it was a luxury pick.  Love the player but not the pick.  We need a Y TE or an X receiver.  But I understand Baalke's explained reasoning.  Make a position group really good rather than another one average.

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Yeah I agree, this was a bit of a luxury pick, although they said they had him high on their board. If he was BAP then you take him, you shouldn’t be reaching for a TE/WR if the value isn’t there. The LB unit is astronomically better than what we’ve had for years.

The pick also adds more options for Lloyd as how we can use him. Plus Muma is used to leading defences and great at special teams.

It’s a tremendous pick as far as I’m concerned.

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LBs take (and deliver) a lot of damage, and having a 3rd LB, and a special teams ace, is valuable. When they took him, my first thought was I guess we now know what they think about Chappy Russell and Shaq Quarterman.

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Can he help Trevor on offense? Seems like a reach pick.

Disagree.

From a value standpoint, he fits perfectly where he was drafted.  The question is given the additions of Oluakun and Lloyd, can we maximize his value to the team at ILB? 

Given the investments in FO and Lloyd, you could argue they are the presumptive starters, which means Muma comes off he bench.

But Oluakun is a 215 lb guy, which is really small for a 3-4 ILB.  Can he hol up against opposing guards.  At 240, Muma is better equipped to hold up, though he could still improve in fighting through blocks.I think against teams like Tennessee or Indy, who strongly emphasizes the run, I see Muma as being invaluable.  As I said in another post, we will have at least two ILBs capable of wearing the green dot and getting the defense aligned.  We had to struggle to find that the past two years.  I think we also have improved athletic ability at ILB compared to last year.  From an athleticism standpoint, losing Jack hurt.  But Schoebert and Wilson were limited athletically.

My only theoretical issue with the Muma pick is that we haven't gotten enough help for Trevor Lawrence.  However you could argue given the feeding frenzy drafting teams had on the offensive side of the ball so far in this draft, going defense again made some sense.  But looking purely at where he was drafted as opposed to his skillset, I don't think Muma was a reach at all.

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This was not a reach at all. This was getting a premium player at the perfect time. Muma is one hell of a linebacker. Very instinctive. Very rangy. Will get in there and mix it up immediately on day one. I like the idea of him playing inside next to Oluokun within a 3 - 4 base package. Allows guys like Allen, Walker & Lloyd to get after the QB with little fear of a RB or TE sneaking out over the middle or out on the edge with these two guys being able to break out fast enough to keep pace in coverage.

Agreed completely.

I think our underneath pass coverage will improve with the three ILBs we've added.  All three of those guys seem adept in zone coverage with hands to make the INT.  All three seem really instinctive, and I definitely think LLoyd has the pure athleticism to excel in man coverage.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

A lot of people had him going in the first round. Washington fans was wanting him in round 1. I guess I didn’t think we would spend 2 picks on LB in the first 70 picks.

At least Henry and Taylor won’t run for 200 yards on us.

(emphasis added)

That's the idea.

Campbell said he wanted our defensive identity would be tough against the run.

With the improved athleticism and instincts Lloyd, Oluakon and Muma provides and the size and raw physical traits Walker provides, I think we'll be stronger against the run.

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Yeah I agree, this was a bit of a luxury pick, although they said they had him high on their board. If he was BAP then you take him, you shouldn’t be reaching for a TE/WR if the value isn’t there. The LB unit is astronomically better than what we’ve had for years.

The pick also adds more options for Lloyd as how we can use him. Plus Muma is used to leading defences and great at special teams.

It’s a tremendous pick as far as I’m concerned.

(emphasis added)

Luxury pick?  No.  Even though you could certainly argue offense was a bigger need, it's not as if there was no need for Muma.

We're in a 3-4.  We need lots of LBs, especially since we got rid of Jack and WIlson.  Aside from that, FO is just 215 lbs.  It's asking a lot for him to be a 3-4 ILB and hold up at that size.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Building a better defense will help Trevor a lot by not forcing him into a weekly shootout where he will feel the pressure of having to score on every drive. And not starting every game down 0-7.

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Building a better defense will help Trevor a lot by not forcing him into a weekly shootout where he will feel the pressure of having to score on every drive.  And not starting every game down 0-7.

Yes, that should help.

Please let us have hit on Walker and be able to develop him into a top notch edge rusher.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Building a better defense will help Trevor a lot by not forcing him into a weekly shootout where he will feel the pressure of having to score on every drive.  And not starting every game down 0-7.

Yes, that should help.

Please let us have hit on Walker and be able to develop him into a top notch edge rusher.

I'm with you on that.  

But I do want to say, and you might agree with me, I don't see Walker as a boom-or-bust pick.  He could be anything in between those two extremes.  Heck, even "quality starter" would be an improvement over most of our recent first round picks.

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Yes, that should help.

Please let us have hit on Walker and be able to develop him into a top notch edge rusher.

I'm with you on that.  

But I do want to say, and you might agree with me, I don't see Walker as a boom-or-bust pick.  He could be anything in between those two extremes.  Heck, even "quality starter" would be an improvement over most of our recent first round picks.

I DO see boom or bust in him.

Minimally, I think if he stays at edge, he'll be very good at the point of attack.  Matched up against TEs, he should be a dominant run defending OLB.

But when you take a guy first overall, you want him to be a big time impact player.  As an edge guy, that means being a good pass rusher.  He has the raw physical tools to be a good pass rusher, but little refinement in that area.  The coaches will be critical.  If they can quickly develop him into a good pass rusher, we could have a dominant front 7.  But we may not see that until 2023 or 2024, if ever.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I'm with you on that.  

But I do want to say, and you might agree with me, I don't see Walker as a boom-or-bust pick.  He could be anything in between those two extremes.  Heck, even "quality starter" would be an improvement over most of our recent first round picks.

I DO see boom or bust in him.

Minimally, I think if he stays at edge, he'll be very good at the point of attack.  Matched up against TEs, he should be a dominant run defending OLB.

But when you take a guy first overall, you want him to be a big time impact player.  As an edge guy, that means being a good pass rusher.  He has the raw physical tools to be a good pass rusher, but little refinement in that area.  The coaches will be critical.  If they can quickly develop him into a good pass rusher, we could have a dominant front 7.  But we may not see that until 2023 or 2024, if ever.

If "boom" means superstar, and "bust" means out of the league, you don't see any possibility in between those two extremes?  It's not possible he could wind up as just a good solid player?

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I DO see boom or bust in him.

Minimally, I think if he stays at edge, he'll be very good at the point of attack.  Matched up against TEs, he should be a dominant run defending OLB.

But when you take a guy first overall, you want him to be a big time impact player.  As an edge guy, that means being a good pass rusher.  He has the raw physical tools to be a good pass rusher, but little refinement in that area.  The coaches will be critical.  If they can quickly develop him into a good pass rusher, we could have a dominant front 7.  But we may not see that until 2023 or 2024, if ever.

If "boom" means superstar, and "bust" means out of the league, you don't see any possibility in between those two extremes?  It's not possible he could wind up as just a good solid player?

Well he could end up being between the two extremes.  but given the expectations that come with the #1 overall pick, if he's not making impact plays, being merely solid, isn't going to be enough.  You don't ttake Renaldo Wynn or Tyson Alualu 1st overall and be viewed favorably by anyone.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

If "boom" means superstar, and "bust" means out of the league, you don't see any possibility in between those two extremes?  It's not possible he could wind up as just a good solid player?

Well he could end up being between the two extremes.  but given the expectations that come with the #1 overall pick, if he's not making impact plays, being merely solid, isn't going to be enough.  You don't ttake Renaldo Wynn or Tyson Alualu 1st overall and be viewed favorably by anyone.

Sure, but neither one of those guys was a bust.  Tyson Alualu is still playing, 12 years into his career.  

Boom means superstar and bust means out of the league.  Walker is not a boom or bust player, because the most likely outcome is that he is somewhere in between.

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Can he help Trevor on offense? Seems like a reach pick.

Disagree.

From a value standpoint, he fits perfectly where he was drafted.  The question is given the additions of Oluakun and Lloyd, can we maximize his value to the team at ILB? 

Given the investments in FO and Lloyd, you could argue they are the presumptive starters, which means Muma comes off he bench.

But Oluakun is a 215 lb guy, which is really small for a 3-4 ILB.  Can he hol up against opposing guards.  At 240, Muma is better equipped to hold up, though he could still improve in fighting through blocks.I think against teams like Tennessee or Indy, who strongly emphasizes the run, I see Muma as being invaluable.  As I said in another post, we will have at least two ILBs capable of wearing the green dot and getting the defense aligned.  We had to struggle to find that the past two years.  I think we also have improved athletic ability at ILB compared to last year.  From an athleticism standpoint, losing Jack hurt.  But Schoebert and Wilson were limited athletically.

My only theoretical issue with the Muma pick is that we haven't gotten enough help for Trevor Lawrence.  However you could argue given the feeding frenzy drafting teams had on the offensive side of the ball so far in this draft, going defense again made some sense.  But looking purely at where he was drafted as opposed to his skillset, I don't think Muma was a reach at all.

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This was not a reach at all. This was getting a premium player at the perfect time. Muma is one hell of a linebacker. Very instinctive. Very rangy. Will get in there and mix it up immediately on day one. I like the idea of him playing inside next to Oluokun within a 3 - 4 base package. Allows guys like Allen, Walker & Lloyd to get after the QB with little fear of a RB or TE sneaking out over the middle or out on the edge with these two guys being able to break out fast enough to keep pace in coverage.

Agreed completely.

I think our underneath pass coverage will improve with the three ILBs we've added.  All three of those guys seem adept in zone coverage with hands to make the INT.  All three seem really instinctive, and I definitely think LLoyd has the pure athleticism to excel in man coverage.

Lloyd has Darius Leonard written all over him. I could see him making a number of splash plays this year. Dare I say? DROY potential. Especially in this division where the QB play is still suspect IMHO. Tannehill really struggled in the play-off's earlier on this year and Ryan is a statue in the pocket. Mills is promising though for the tinhorns. I think Lloyd will have some chances in those six contests to really make an impact play or two that changes the outcome of the game. 

Muma really reminds me a little bit of Kuechly. Albeit, a slightly slower version that Kuechly. I don't want to overhype Muma. He's good at what he does. His change of direction isn't as good as Kuechly's so he's going to really, really have to rely on his instincts but I think if he's inside in a 3 - 4 with these other guys around him? He'll be able to hunt the football down a lot more comfortably than he did up in Wyoming. 

Lloyd is the one though for me. There's so much about him that I like on paper and on the highlight reels. Just offers so much to a defense overall. Haven't been this excited about a linebacker since the signing of Mike Peterson way back in 2003 when I was a kid.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I felt that Mike P call-out brother

"Welcome to Duval, Prepare to get hit"

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I think DC Caldwell plans on a diverse group of packages to employ situationally utilizing different fronts, and Baalke went out and got him the pieces to build those packages.

That's just my gut feel based on how free agency and the early rounds have gone down.
This pick in particular signals this intent to me, otherwise it is a bit of a luxury pick.

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Excellent value, questionable need/fit. Getting him at 70 is exactly why I said over and over and over that I liked the LBs we were rumored with at 33 but I wanted to wait until round 3. This LB class was just so darn good and deep with LB.

I think we are going to rergret the Lloyd trade and wish we had gone with a WR at 33 and having a pick at 106. Muma with Skyy or Pickens and Zach Tom or Chris Paul would make us a better team than Muma with Lloyd.

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