Lots to talk about.

Many folks are disappointed more wasn't done to improve this group. I thought we'd see a draft pick prior to the 5th added to the mix and that didn't happen. 

Nonetheless, we have some talent and Pederson has a track record of getting production from some fairly pedestrian receivers. 

Here's some interesting data to ponder. Big play percentage. 

Kirk - 16.3%
Agnew - 15.2%
Treadwell - 11.8% 
Zay Jones - 11.1%
Marvin Jones - 10.8%
Shenault - 6.3% 

Treadwell, Agnew and Kirk are all above the median while  Zay Jones is right about average on this chart.

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https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status...osNbBQTNoA

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It's encouraging data. We had the perfect storm of rookie QB and the most horrific HC leading the way in the history of the NFL. I continue to hope that next year will pleasantly surprise us all. Can't wait!

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How is Marvin Jones higher than Tyreek Hill

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How is Marvin Jones higher than Tyreek Hill

%

Not that hard.

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Marvin Jones catches it in traffic.

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Tavon Austin at 5% while AJ Brown is at 9%

AJ Green is 1 spot ahead of Jamar Chase

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This group combined with the TE group should be a night and day difference from last year. Pretty sure they will not be running into each other.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

How is Marvin Jones higher than Tyreek Hill

total touches, defensive gameplanning, or mebbe Bevell was a better OC than Bienemy

could be any of the above. stop laughing.

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How is Marvin Jones higher than Tyreek Hill

Tyreek had a tremendous amount of pedestrian plays.  5 or 6 games where he was under 50 yards.

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How is Marvin Jones higher than Tyreek Hill

Tyreek had a tremendous amount of pedestrian plays.  5 or 6 games where he was under 50 yards.

Your username is gold

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Was really not worried at all that much with this position group the moment they hired Pederson.

They'll be good this year collectively and I think Lawrence is going to thrive in this offensive system.

I'll just say it. I think Pederson with Lawrence has the potential to be the next Payton and Brees for the next decade.

I cannot stress that enough. Great QB's can elevate the players around them but when paired with a coach that KNOWS how to call an offense and he has the instincts of a QB? It's just easy.

I think we can expect a different player showing up every week or every other week with Lawrence offensively and that's great because that means your balancing your team out and keeping your opponents guessing.

No more bland, predictable and pedestrian offensive schemes. Finally. [BLEEP] finally.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

The "looks" are carries and targets, so returners like Peoples-Jones and our own Agnew have their "big play" percentage skewed. Same for occasional running back Deebo Samuel. From what I'm seeing, half the production is due to the QB getting the receiver the ball (as usual).

I'm content with our receivers and interested what comes out of training camp. I mean, who saw Agnew as the explosive play guy last year? But I am seriously hopeful for some better play out of Lawrence.

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In hindsight with Free Agency and the draft behind us, i'm kind of glad we didn't draft a WR. Last season our WR's ran the wrong routes far too often and it led to picks on those plays the majority of the time. I think what Trevor needs are vets who know the playbook and make the right reads for their option routes so that they're on the same page with the young QB and can help his development. We don't need more growing pains at WR if our QB is trying to grow himself as well. The value at each pick just didn't seem to be there and i'd rather not reach for anyone in what was a very top heavy draft at the position.

Kirk was a great addition (the contract isn't as bad as it appears). And Zay Jones is a hard worker and professional (nothing to write home about, but may be a great blocker for our run game and redzone target as we lack size on the outside). The only thing I wish we did was give Chark the same 1 year $10 million that Detroit handed him, it's a lot cheaper than I thought he'd command and while he's never quite lived up to that probowl season he had, he was definitely our most explosive playmaker before he went down last season.

Also regardless of who plays, just catch the ball. The amount of drops last year was far too many for a professional football team; that killed drives and as frustrating as it was for fans I can only imagine how Trevor felt.

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Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

In hindsight with Free Agency and the draft behind us, i'm kind of glad we didn't draft a WR. Last season our WR's ran the wrong routes far too often and it led to picks on those plays the majority of the time. I think what Trevor needs are vets who know the playbook and make the right reads for their option routes so that they're on the same page with the young QB and can help his development. We don't need more growing pains at WR if our QB is trying to grow himself as well. The value at each pick just didn't seem to be there and i'd rather not reach for anyone in what was a very top heavy draft at the position.

Kirk was a great addition (the contract isn't as bad as it appears). And Zay Jones is a hard worker and professional (nothing to write home about, but may be a great blocker for our run game and redzone target as we lack size on the outside). The only thing I wish we did was give Chark the same 1 year $10 million that Detroit handed him, it's a lot cheaper than I thought he'd command and while he's never quite lived up to that probowl season he had, he was definitely our most explosive playmaker before he went down last season.

Also regardless of who plays, just catch the ball. The amount of drops last year was  far too many for a professional football team; that killed drives and as frustrating as it was for fans I can only imagine how Trevor felt.

I've been wanting to compare and contrast drop rates and this presents a good opportunity.

Jags 2021 WR/TE drop rates: 

Marvin Jones:  73 catches - 832 yards - 1.7% drop rate
Laviska Shenault: 63 catches - 619 yards -  8.0% drop rate
Laquon Treadwell: 33 catches - 434 yards - 5.9% drop rate
Dan Arnold:  28 catches - 324 yards -   4.9% drop rate
Jamal Agnew:  24 catches - 229 yards - 2.0% drop rate
O'Shaughnessy -  24 catches -  244 yards - 8.8% drop rate

Projected New Jags 2022 WR/TE drop rates from 2021:

C. Kirk:  77 for 982 - 5.8% drop rate 
Z. Jones: 47 for 546 - 2.9% drop rate
E. Engram: 46 for 408 - 8.2% drop rate

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O'Shaugnessy dropped a lot of catchable balls last year and Engram did too. 
Engram is a more dynamic player - so the caught passes should;d amount to more if he's healthy long enough. 

Both Marvin and Zay Jones are very consistent catchers. 

Agnew had few drops but we'll have to wait to see how much of a role he's given in the pass game. 

Treadwell had a pretty average drop rate number, just a shade under the mark you'd like to see. 

Arnold - pretty average rate. 

Shenault's drop rate in preseason could determine his fate.
 His number last year was bad and his rookie year (3.8%) was very good. Will he acclimate? Your guess is as good as mine. His impressive 389 yards after catch and 10 broken tackles last year could be very valuable if he can get his hands back to form.

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In hindsight with Free Agency and the draft behind us, i'm kind of glad we didn't draft a WR. Last season our WR's ran the wrong routes far too often and it led to picks on those plays the majority of the time. I think what Trevor needs are vets who know the playbook and make the right reads for their option routes so that they're on the same page with the young QB and can help his development. We don't need more growing pains at WR if our QB is trying to grow himself as well. The value at each pick just didn't seem to be there and i'd rather not reach for anyone in what was a very top heavy draft at the position.

Kirk was a great addition (the contract isn't as bad as it appears). And Zay Jones is a hard worker and professional (nothing to write home about, but may be a great blocker for our run game and redzone target as we lack size on the outside). The only thing I wish we did was give Chark the same 1 year $10 million that Detroit handed him, it's a lot cheaper than I thought he'd command and while he's never quite lived up to that probowl season he had, he was definitely our most explosive playmaker before he went down last season.

Also regardless of who plays, just catch the ball. The amount of drops last year was  far too many for a professional football team; that killed drives and as frustrating as it was for fans I can only imagine how Trevor felt.

I've been wanting to compare and contrast drop rates and this presents a good opportunity.

Jags 2021 WR/TE drop rates: 

Marvin Jones:  73 catches - 832 yards - 1.7% drop rate
Laviska Shenault: 63 catches - 619 yards -  8.0% drop rate
Laquon Treadwell: 33 catches - 434 yards - 5.9% drop rate
Dan Arnold:  28 catches - 324 yards -   4.9% drop rate
Jamal Agnew:  24 catches - 229 yards - 2.0% drop rate
O'Shaughnessy -  24 catches -  244 yards - 8.8% drop rate

Projected New Jags 2022 WR/TE drop rates from 2021:

C. Kirk:  77 for 982 - 5.8% drop rate 
Z. Jones: 47 for 546 - 2.9% drop rate
E. Engram: 46 for 408 - 8.2% drop rate

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O'Shaugnessy dropped a lot of catchable balls last year and Engram did too. 
Engram is a more dynamic player - so the caught passes should;d amount to more if he's healthy long enough. 

Both Marvin and Zay Jones are very consistent catchers. 

Agnew had few drops but we'll have to wait to see how much of a role he's given in the pass game. 

Treadwell had a pretty average drop rate number, just a shade under the mark you'd like to see. 

Arnold - pretty average rate. 

Shenault's drop rate in preseason could determine his fate.
 His number last year was bad and his rookie year (3.8%) was very good. Will he acclimate? Your guess is as good as mine. His impressive 389 yards after catch and 10 broken tackles last year could be very valuable if he can get his hands back to form.

What was Charks rate? Also it's not just the % of drops, it's also the timing of them and the fact that they're dropping darts and well thrown balls. I forgot to mention in my first post but seperation was arguably as big an issue as the drops were. I just felt like besides Agnew in flashes and Chark in the first 3 weeks that NO ONE got open enough to generate a consistent passing offense.

I think they need to use Shenault like Deebo Samuel. reverses, screens, handoffs. His route running is poor and he doesnt' catch the ball consistently enough for me (8% is gross, thats about 4x as many as MJJ) he's a bulldozer once he has the rock but the problem has been getting it to him in the right scheme/space to make plays once it's there.

Engram has a reputation for drops; im surprised Kirk has 5-6% as well, I thought he was rather sure handed. I'm also curious to see when in games the drops occured, not just quarter but down and distance as well. It felt like on 2nd and long and on any 3rd down we had that the ball was hitting the turf. I strongly suspect that Sanjay Lal did little to contribute to the WR's development and him and Urban combined led to some extreme regression as opposed to how good most of the same guys looked under Keenan's tutelage. Really hoping that Pederson & Chris Jackson can turn this group around.

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Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

Lawrence will be the best QB Engram has ever played with (Eli was a shell of himself and Daniel Jones sucks).

Pretty pumped for Engram

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I've been wanting to compare and contrast drop rates and this presents a good opportunity.

Jags 2021 WR/TE drop rates: 

Marvin Jones:  73 catches - 832 yards - 1.7% drop rate
Laviska Shenault: 63 catches - 619 yards -  8.0% drop rate
Laquon Treadwell: 33 catches - 434 yards - 5.9% drop rate
Dan Arnold:  28 catches - 324 yards -   4.9% drop rate
Jamal Agnew:  24 catches - 229 yards - 2.0% drop rate
O'Shaughnessy -  24 catches -  244 yards - 8.8% drop rate

Projected New Jags 2022 WR/TE drop rates from 2021:

C. Kirk:  77 for 982 - 5.8% drop rate 
Z. Jones: 47 for 546 - 2.9% drop rate
E. Engram: 46 for 408 - 8.2% drop rate

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O'Shaugnessy dropped a lot of catchable balls last year and Engram did too. 
Engram is a more dynamic player - so the caught passes should;d amount to more if he's healthy long enough. 

Both Marvin and Zay Jones are very consistent catchers. 

Agnew had few drops but we'll have to wait to see how much of a role he's given in the pass game. 

Treadwell had a pretty average drop rate number, just a shade under the mark you'd like to see. 

Arnold - pretty average rate. 

Shenault's drop rate in preseason could determine his fate.
 His number last year was bad and his rookie year (3.8%) was very good. Will he acclimate? Your guess is as good as mine. His impressive 389 yards after catch and 10 broken tackles last year could be very valuable if he can get his hands back to form.

What was Charks rate? Also it's not just the % of drops, it's also the timing of them and the fact that they're dropping darts and well thrown balls. I forgot to mention in my first post but seperation was arguably as big an issue as the drops were. I just felt like besides Agnew in flashes and Chark in the first 3 weeks that NO ONE got open enough to generate a consistent passing offense.

I think they need to use Shenault like Deebo Samuel. reverses, screens, handoffs. His route running is poor and he doesnt' catch the ball consistently enough for me (8% is gross, thats about 4x as many as MJJ) he's a bulldozer once he has the rock but the problem has been getting it to him in the right scheme/space to make plays once it's there.

Engram has a reputation for drops; im surprised Kirk has 5-6% as well, I thought he was rather sure handed. I'm also curious to see when in games the drops occured, not just quarter but down and distance as well. It felt like on 2nd and long and on any 3rd down we had that the ball was hitting the turf. I strongly suspect that Sanjay Lal did little to contribute to the WR's development and him and Urban combined led to some extreme regression as opposed to how good most of the same guys looked under Keenan's tutelage. Really hoping that Pederson & Chris Jackson can turn this group around.

Chark's rate has been consistently between 3%-4.5% each year. 

Separation was a major issue. You can definitely put a little of that on the scheme and route tree Bevell/Meyer had in place, but much of it was on the receivers. 

Zay Jones represents a major upgrade in this department. His cut-up from 2021 is chock full of catches being made with 2 steps or more on his guy. 

Kirk is an upgrade as well, but to a lesser degree than Jones. Both of those receivers are VERY adept at sitting down in the gaps between zone coverage when they face it. (Kirk's prior seasons' drop rates have been 5.9, 3.7, and 2.5 - so he's capable of a better number)

TE mismatches are also going to be a helpful offset to the separation issue. Pederson is sure to dial up plenty of them. 

RE: Shenault - I trust Pederson to use him more wisely than what we've seen, but it will all likely hinge on whether he proves he can shake this case of drop-pox he picked up last year. (I really think it's a matter of acclimating to Trevor's velocity and likely overcome-able - he had no issues as a rookie w/ Minshew)

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If Shenault can get his hands working, he's going to be a baller. He's basically a RB who will start in the open field. I love smashmouth football, though, so I have been beyond hopeful for the dude since I watched him slam into the defense.

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If Pederson sticks to his word and allow TL16 to be the QB that he truly is, our receiving corp will be just fine. Take off the hand cuffs and let him do his thing. Throughout the preseason, we'll know just what we have at both of the positions. Not to exclude the TEs.

Time Will Tell.

NH3...

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"AZANE"

Lots to talk about.

Many folks are disappointed more wasn't to improve this group. I thought we'd see a draft pick prior to the 5th added to the mix and that didn't happen. 

Nonetheless, we have some talent and Pederson has a track record of getting production from some fairly pedestrian receivers. 

Here's some interesting data to ponder. Big play percentage. 

Kirk - 16.3%
Agnew - 15.2%
Treadwell - 11.8% 
Zay Jones - 11.1%
Marvin Jones - 10.8%
Shenault - 6.3% 

Treadwell, Agnew and Kirk are all above the median while  Zay Jones is right about average on this chart.

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https://twitter.com/Marcus_Mosher/status...osNbBQTNoA

If only Treadwell caught that deep pass against the Colts in the season ending game.

Trevor Lawrence could have had a monster game.  His drop of the deep pass down the left sideline was Trevor's first incompletion of the game after 15 straight completions.  That would have added another 40+ yards to the total.  That play and LaViska's drop of a TD-which would have been Trevor's 3rd TD of the game-would have been huge...and we would have given the Colts the crushing blowout loss they deserved.

Sigh.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!