Wait, is someone saying that our rookie QB made some rookie mistakes? Because them's fighting words, right? Quick - fetch the tar and feathers!

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Lawrence had a coach that didn't help him fix the issues he already had. What you saw last year was 2020 Clemson Trevor Lawrence playing in the big leagues. Coaching can fix him certainly, but to try to pretend that bad play calling, or receivers dropping passes caused him to throw INTs 5 yards down the field into a linebackers hands with no WRs around is absolutely stupid.

You're ridiculous dude.

not wasting the keystrokes, dude. The equine carcass is bludgeoned beyond recognition.

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Wait, is someone saying that our rookie QB made some rookie mistakes? Because them's fighting words, right? Quick - fetch the tar and feathers!

this is a real "Blaine Gabbert out of 0" post, whatever that means.

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For a season full of errors LOLOLOLOLOL

Hilarious

Theres the group your in, who thinks that the reason our QB couldn't throw a TD for 9 straight games, was missing short passes and making poor decisions was soley based on the players/coaching around him.

And then theres the group i'm in, people with working eye balls who can acknowledge he wasn't in a good position, but can still accept that he made plenty of his own mistakes. And most of his mistakes were the same issues he had at Clemson where he had better talent/coaching than 99% of the teams he played against.

You, and the other few people who wont let go of this argument with me have a combined football IQ of Blaine Gabbert out of 0.

False

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Lawrence had a coach that didn't help him fix the issues he already had. What you saw last year was 2020 Clemson Trevor Lawrence playing in the big leagues. Coaching can fix him certainly, but to try to pretend that bad play calling, or receivers dropping passes caused him to throw INTs 5 yards down the field into a linebackers hands with no WRs around is absolutely stupid.

You're ridiculous dude.

CJB is taking a position. There are some merits to his statements TBH. Lawrence did not have a great year last year period paragraph. Coaching contributed to that, sure. There are still valid reasons for concern. His accuracy and touch need *a lot* of work. On the other hand, he's pretty good with factors like pocket awareness and improvisation. He also made a few throws that made you say wow. And that arm though.

I honestly expected most of this, he was a rookie with some known flaws. I do expect him to take a huge step forward this year but there's probably still going to be situations with accuracy where we're left scratching our heads. Ultimately, my bet is he'll be a top 10, maybe a top 5 QB even if he never turns into the generational talent that some where thinking he might be. For the Jags, that's progress!

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

INT-wise Trevor started off last season pretty badly with seven in the first three games. After that he cleaned up nicely except the two horrible games against Pats and Titans (another seven ints). With more experience and a better support cast, I expect Trevor to improve this season. In this setting the question is whether it is too soon for Week 1?

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You're ridiculous dude.

CJB is taking a position. There are some merits to his statements TBH. Lawrence did not have a great year last year period paragraph. Coaching contributed to that, sure. There are still valid reasons for concern. His accuracy and touch need *a lot* of work. On the other hand, he's pretty good with factors like pocket awareness and improvisation. He also made a few throws that made you say wow. And that arm though.

I honestly expected most of this, he was a rookie with some known flaws. I do expect him to take a huge step forward this year but there's probably still going to be situations with accuracy where we're left scratching our heads. Ultimately, my bet is he'll be a top 10, maybe a top 5 QB even if he never turns into the generational talent that some where thinking he might be. For the Jags, that's progress!

While I don't think it's impossible, I do highly doubt he will be a top 5 QB anytime soon if ever.. but that's not exactly a slight as the top 5 as it stands are remarkably talented. It's nice to see somebody with an open mind on the conversation, who actually noticed his issues on accuracy and touch..  particularly his fast ball to the flat that caused many drops out of the backfield, his extremely errant throws on the run and as you put it, some throws that left me wondering what he could have possibly seen (the 3 or 4 ints he threw over the middle, directly to a linebacker with no wr/te/back in sight.)

Appreciate the comment, tho. It's refreshing to see somebody actually talk about the issues and or the bright spots without simply saying "He played good" like a lot of posters here do.

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INT-wise Trevor started off last season pretty badly with seven in the first three games. After that he cleaned up nicely except the two horrible games against Pats and Titans (another seven ints). With more experience and a better support cast, I expect Trevor to improve this season. In this setting the question is whether it is too soon for Week 1?

Yes but he didn't really clean up those mistakes, he just took far less chances.. which results in him throwing no touchdowns for 2 months and barely reaching 200 yards most games mid way through the season. Not to compare him to Gabbs, but that was kind of how he played. He didn't throw a ton of ints, but neither did he throw for many tds or yards.

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Yes but he didn't really clean up those mistakes, he just took far less chances.. which results in him throwing no touchdowns for 2 months and barely reaching 200 yards most games mid way through the season. Not to compare him to Gabbs, but that was kind of how he played. He didn't throw a ton of ints, but neither did he throw for many tds or yards.

I never played the game, so I only got a layman’s/fan’s understanding of the game, but wouldn’t ‘clean up mistakes’ at least in the short term mean taking less chances? Especially considering the quality of the WR-room towards the end of the season. I would argue that if he had kept on making risky throws down the stretch, then it would look even worse stat-wise.

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So we want to know how units are playing before even a pre-season game is played and there are several new starters.  Makes sense to me.

Makes complete sense it's discussed every year...You must be new to the game Huh?

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Lawrence beat Wentz in the last game they both played so...

So Lawrence is better based on that Gotcha...

So if I understand you...

you expect fans of a team that has had one (1) winning season in the last fourteen (14)-none since 2017-with the worst record in the league the past two seasons, and four head coaches in the last three years (Marrone, Meyer, Bevell, now Pederson) to give you lengthy and intelligent discourse on where we're better than any other team before Pederson has had any chance beyond OTAs to implement the new schemes?

Are you that desperate to feel good about the Commanders?

The most any of us could do at this point is speculate about what our strengths might be, much less what they might be as compared to Washington.

Trevor Lawrence was widely thought be most observers to be the best QB prospect to come along since Andrrew Luck.  The complete nightmare that was the situation he found himself last year appears to have been mitigated to some degree.  He is no longer a rookie.  He is not playing under quite possibly the worst head coach in NFL history and certainly the worst since Rich Kotite and Gus Bradley and replaced by a Super bowl winning coach in Doug Pederson, who was a former NFL QB who has a history of success developing quality QBs and offenses.  We appear to have better skill players than we had last year.  Travis Etienne appears to be healthy, and if he remains healthy, he'll add an element of explosiveness to the offense.  We should be better at TE than we were before with Evan Engram who actually once made a Pro Bowl while he played in your division, and he'll play in a scheme installed by Pederson, who has proven effective in utilizing TEs in the past.  Last year, our most explosive WR was arguably Agnew, who was a DB and kick returner in Detroit before coming here.  His hands and routes were suspect before he suffered a season ending hip injury.  Our best WR was Marvin Jones, who was 32 last year and historically has been a #2 WR at best.  Former busts we got from other teams off the street in mid-season like LaQuon Treadwell and Tavon Austin got tons of playing time last year, and the results were not pretty.  We now have Christian Kirk and Zay Jones..  While neither are world beaters, they should be more consistent than the group we had last year.  Our offensive line has been  horrid since 2018.  We signed your former G Scherff this offseason, lost our longtime C in Brandon Linder, and we have a competition at RT between a guy who has proven to be lousy at pass protection and a guy who has two starts after missing most of the last two college seasons of his career due to injury and Covid.

I believe potentially, our defense has the chance to be a real strength for this team.  It's our second year running a 3-4, but our first under first year Def coord Mike Caldwell, who came from Tampa.  We already had Josh Allen, who is a good edge rusher.  We added 5 LBs to him-2 vets and 3 rookies.  Vets, Foye Oluakon (ILB) (Atlanta) and Arden Key (LV Edge) should add some instinctiveness inside and upgrade depth (key over Chaisson outside).  But I'm most excited about the rookies, even with the apprehension about #1 overall pick Travon Walker.  It seems throughout his career, LB Myles Jack had no shortage of athleticism for us, but did not play very instinctively most oif the time.  The closest parallel I could draw for your team is Jamon Davis last year.  I think Devin Lloyd and Chad Muma are athletic and instinctive. 

Our secondary could also be pretty good.  Our second round pick last year started slowly but sarted playing very well from midseason on.  Don't think he'll go through the rookie struggles he did last year.  I think one of our safeties will be upgraded from last year, as as Andre Cisco should take over for Wingard.

Does this mean any of these units are better than their contemporaries on Washington, or does that mean they are capable of winning their matchups against the Washington offense?  Way way way too soon to say.  Keep in mind, all of these guys were picked by Trent Baalke, a guy who has very little confidence among Jaguars fans.  Most wanted him gone at the end of last season. 

I get you may be thirsty for some quality football discussion.  I am too.  But at this early stage of the season (we haven't even opened training camp), you are asking the impossible of posters here.  We have no idea how well this coaching staff will be able to develop players-even assuming Baalke signed the right guys.  Compared to Washington, who has had coaching and schematic continuity for a few years, the Jaguars offer nothing of the sort.  There's no baseline for us to begin to compare.  We can't even attend training camp this year because we're getting new facilities perhaps the one good thing Urban Meyer may have done for this team.  In aggregate, you won't find a similar dynamic anywhere else in the league.


If you truly want to have a more detailed discussion from us, come back here after the preseason.  Even that would be difficult, but under the circumstances, it's the best any of us can do.  Until then, I suggest you watch the preseason like the rest of us.  NFL Network has a few training camp reports.  The Jaguars will play in the Hall of Fame game on August 4.  It will be a nationally televised game.  But be forewarned the usual preseason caveats apply, in addition to the stuff outlined above.

If you want to be able to thump your chest about Washington's superiority under THESE circumstances, do it elsewhere.  Don't wast our time.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

If you haven’t noticed, Bullseye is our adult in the room.

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If you haven’t noticed, Bullseye is our adult in the room.

I’m pretty sure he is a bot.  Way too much logic and reason for these parts.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Yes but he didn't really clean up those mistakes, he just took far less chances.. which results in him throwing no touchdowns for 2 months and barely reaching 200 yards most games mid way through the season. Not to compare him to Gabbs, but that was kind of how he played. He didn't throw a ton of ints, but neither did he throw for many tds or yards.

I never played the game, so I only got a layman’s/fan’s understanding of the game, but wouldn’t ‘clean up mistakes’ at least in the short term mean taking less chances? Especially considering the quality of the WR-room towards the end of the season. I would argue that if he had kept on making risky throws down the stretch, then it would look even worse stat-wise.

Most of his ints were a result of an insccurate throw or sending into double or even triple coverage.. you can consider that taking a chance i guess… but it would be different if his ints were on 50/50 go balls giving his wr a chance at making a play but that often wasnt the case.

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My feelings are: 

1) It doesn't matter if Trevor is better than Wentz, or if our defensive line is better than Washington's.  Trevor isn't lining up against Wentz, and our defensive line is not lining up against Washington's defensive line.  

2) In the case of the Jags especially, evaluating any position group is too much of a projection, especially with all the new starters we're going to have out there.  At least half of our starters will be new.  It's a huge roster upgrade, but having that many new starters means they probably won't play very well to start the season.  

3) I think Carson Wentz was scapegoated by Frank Reich in order to deflect blame from Reich for last season's collapse.  When I watch Wentz, I see a decent QB.  The mystery is why this decent QB has now been dumped by two different teams.  Obviously, there's some issue I'm not aware of.

Carson Wentz issues are mental imo. In the same way I felt about Blake Bortles for years, he just seems like a regular guy and all of this is a little over his head. He's got the talent to be great, he's shown it. The problem is he continously makes silly errors that make you think he's feeling some sort of pressure that's too much for him.

Carson Wentz is the Ron Weasley of QB's. He is great when he feels lucky, not thinking about things, or on roll. But given that 2 teams have given up on him and few players have stood up for him, he doensn't act like a level-headed leader and he mopes around most of the time. He even has the red hair.

You're ridiculous dude.

CJB is taking a position. There are some merits to his statements TBH. Lawrence did not have a great year last year period paragraph. Coaching contributed to that, sure. There are still valid reasons for concern. His accuracy and touch need *a lot* of work. On the other hand, he's pretty good with factors like pocket awareness and improvisation. He also made a few throws that made you say wow. And that arm though.

I honestly expected most of this, he was a rookie with some known flaws. I do expect him to take a huge step forward this year but there's probably still going to be situations with accuracy where we're left scratching our heads. Ultimately, my bet is he'll be a top 10, maybe a top 5 QB even if he never turns into the generational talent that some where thinking he might be. For the Jags, that's progress!

My only issue is that it feels CJB has gone way too far to an extreme on his point. Lawrence was touted as the one of the best prospects. Prospect; no one who actually watches football or in the weeds expected him to walk in the door and lead a team to the playoffs. Especially after playing in an easy read offense with better athletes than most other college teams, and dealing with the practice and development limitations of a '19-00 college COVID season. Add in the nonsense of a UM rookie season, there should have been some expectation that he was going to make mistakes, and have a downturn in his development progress. 

The thing is that Lawrence has been the best "hope" this franchise has had in basically 20 years. Yes, that can blind people at times, but to CJB seems to want to just destroy the heart of the hope on this board instead of just having people take a step back and not rush to conclusions.

Also CJB has yet to point out a better option for the team to have taken? I haven't heard him really pound on the table that the Jags to have traded down and drafted Mac/Mills/Trey etc. I also don't really remember him the years before banging the table to trade up to get Herbert or Burrow (CJB, if you did do things, I'll retract this but I don't recall it.) He is not currently banging on the table to tank this year for a '23 QB. 

We all know the risks of developing Lawrence, but there isn't a better plan going forward. It's as if CBJ just wants us to be prepared for soft fall instead of enjoying the hope we have while we can have it.

If you haven’t noticed, Bullseye is our adult in the room.

I also always picture and hear Bullseye's posts as if spoken like Jules. I never want to hear his actual voice and spoil that impression (What" ain't no country I've ever heard of. They speak English in What?"

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CJB is taking a position. There are some merits to his statements TBH. Lawrence did not have a great year last year period paragraph. Coaching contributed to that, sure. There are still valid reasons for concern. His accuracy and touch need *a lot* of work. On the other hand, he's pretty good with factors like pocket awareness and improvisation. He also made a few throws that made you say wow. And that arm though.

I honestly expected most of this, he was a rookie with some known flaws. I do expect him to take a huge step forward this year but there's probably still going to be situations with accuracy where we're left scratching our heads. Ultimately, my bet is he'll be a top 10, maybe a top 5 QB even if he never turns into the generational talent that some where thinking he might be. For the Jags, that's progress!

While I don't think it's impossible, I do highly doubt he will be a top 5 QB anytime soon if ever.. but that's not exactly a slight as the top 5 as it stands are remarkably talented. It's nice to see somebody with an open mind on the conversation, who actually noticed his issues on accuracy and touch..  particularly his fast ball to the flat that caused many drops out of the backfield, his extremely errant throws on the run and as you put it, some throws that left me wondering what he could have possibly seen (the 3 or 4 ints he threw over the middle, directly to a linebacker with no wr/te/back in sight.)

Appreciate the comment, tho. It's refreshing to see somebody actually talk about the issues and or the bright spots without simply saying "He played good" like a lot of posters here do.

I think the flaw that concerns me the most is how his mechanics look like they break down under pressure. It doesn't happen all the time but it happens enough that it's concerning. I think that's why he tended to overthrow receivers at times. In college he got away with it but but there's enough natural talent there and the work ethic seems to be there so that he can eventually overcome it in any case. The idea that he was a generational talent like Elway or some of these other guys he was being compared to was obviously hyperbole but I think he'll ultimately become the franchise level QB the Jags have lacked since Brunell. Continuing to upgrade the WR corps over the next couple of years will pay dividends too.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

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Carson Wentz issues are mental imo. In the same way I felt about Blake Bortles for years, he just seems like a regular guy and all of this is a little over his head. He's got the talent to be great, he's shown it. The problem is he continously makes silly errors that make you think he's feeling some sort of pressure that's too much for him.

Carson Wentz is the Ron Weasley of QB's. He is great when he feels lucky, not thinking about things, or on roll. But given that 2 teams have given up on him and few players have stood up for him, he doensn't act like a level-headed leader and he mopes around most of the time. He even has the red hair.

CJB is taking a position. There are some merits to his statements TBH. Lawrence did not have a great year last year period paragraph. Coaching contributed to that, sure. There are still valid reasons for concern. His accuracy and touch need *a lot* of work. On the other hand, he's pretty good with factors like pocket awareness and improvisation. He also made a few throws that made you say wow. And that arm though.

I honestly expected most of this, he was a rookie with some known flaws. I do expect him to take a huge step forward this year but there's probably still going to be situations with accuracy where we're left scratching our heads. Ultimately, my bet is he'll be a top 10, maybe a top 5 QB even if he never turns into the generational talent that some where thinking he might be. For the Jags, that's progress!

My only issue is that it feels CJB has gone way too far to an extreme on his point. Lawrence was touted as the one of the best prospects. Prospect; no one who actually watches football or in the weeds expected him to walk in the door and lead a team to the playoffs. Especially after playing in an easy read offense with better athletes than most other college teams, and dealing with the practice and development limitations of a '19-00 college COVID season. Add in the nonsense of a UM rookie season, there should have been some expectation that he was going to make mistakes, and have a downturn in his development progress. 

The thing is that Lawrence has been the best "hope" this franchise has had in basically 20 years. Yes, that can blind people at times, but to CJB seems to want to just destroy the heart of the hope on this board instead of just having people take a step back and not rush to conclusions.

Also CJB has yet to point out a better option for the team to have taken? I haven't heard him really pound on the table that the Jags to have traded down and drafted Mac/Mills/Trey etc. I also don't really remember him the years before banging the table to trade up to get Herbert or Burrow (CJB, if you did do things, I'll retract this but I don't recall it.) He is not currently banging on the table to tank this year for a '23 QB. 

We all know the risks of developing Lawrence, but there isn't a better plan going forward. It's as if CBJ just wants us to be prepared for soft fall instead of enjoying the hope we have while we can have it.

If you haven’t noticed, Bullseye is our adult in the room.

I also always picture and hear Bullseye's posts as if spoken like Jules. I never want to hear his actual voice and spoil that impression (What" ain't no country I've ever heard of. They speak English in What?"

Lol, me too. Although, rather than shoot the guy, Bullseye would present an argument so sound and compelling that the guy would give up a life of crime and become an English professor.

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If you haven’t noticed, Bullseye is our adult in the room.

I’m pretty sure he is a bot.  Way too much logic and reason for these parts.

He's gotta be at least GPT-12.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

While I don't think it's impossible, I do highly doubt he will be a top 5 QB anytime soon if ever.. but that's not exactly a slight as the top 5 as it stands are remarkably talented. It's nice to see somebody with an open mind on the conversation, who actually noticed his issues on accuracy and touch..  particularly his fast ball to the flat that caused many drops out of the backfield, his extremely errant throws on the run and as you put it, some throws that left me wondering what he could have possibly seen (the 3 or 4 ints he threw over the middle, directly to a linebacker with no wr/te/back in sight.)

Appreciate the comment, tho. It's refreshing to see somebody actually talk about the issues and or the bright spots without simply saying "He played good" like a lot of posters here do.

I think the flaw that concerns me the most is how his mechanics look like they break down under pressure. It doesn't happen all the time but it happens enough that it's concerning. I think that's why he tended to overthrow receivers at times. In college he got away with it but but there's enough natural talent there and the work ethic seems to be there so that he can eventually overcome it in any case. The idea that he was a generational talent like Elway or some of these other guys he was being compared to was obviously hyperbole but I think he'll ultimately become the franchise level QB the Jags have lacked since Brunell. Continuing to upgrade the WR corps over the next couple of years will pay dividends too.

Yeah two of my biggest issues last season and before that was his accuracy was super inconsistent. Obviously, under pressure I wouldn't expect anyone to be perfect but it was the throws I watched him make when there was no pressure that concerned me. There was a play last year, that I've mentioned a few times where we were on I want to say the 10 or 15 yard line, had two guys on crossing routes and he not only completely overthrew his target (who was open, but barely) but also the other crosser was wide open in the endzone.. It was a really poor decision to throw it where he did but what bothered me the most is that he had 0 pressure on him and just sailed it far out the back of the endzone. His mechanics do tend to breakdown a bit under pressure, but I think thats fixable.. the accuracy inconsistency was and is still my biggest concern honestly. 

I don't think he's a bust tho, I think a lot of people here are under that impression. I just feel like all of the "experts" took a look at his w/l record in college, combined with him winning against Alabama in his first year and just decided he was that dude. I geniunely felt almost exactly the same way about Herbert coming out as I did with Lawrence. If he turns out to be as good as Herbert, I'd be pleasently surprised at this point.

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Right off the top, I would say our RBs. You got Robinson and ETN. Robinson is a proven back and ETN has game breaking game speed.

I would also say our LBs with the 2 rookies.

I would agree with your LB's cause that's my Commanders weakest unit,but RB we pretty strong...

Gibson and Robinson imo are pretty comparable in terms of production/skill. I'd say with ETN joining the team, our group has the potential to be better than the commanders but if it's just Robinson vs Gibson, pick your poison.

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Wr is the only one I give to Washington in a landslide(if mclaurren is heathy which I expect he will be w1). Every where else seems relatively close. Admittedly I don’t give enough of a [BLEEP] about Washington to follow their team so my knowledge is pretty limited.

Oh yeah and Snyder is an absolute [BLEEP] owner. so as annoying as khan can be about certain things, Snyder blows him out of the water in terms of pure suckassness.

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