So I have seen a lot of contradictory opinions regarding Zay Jones. It seems that from the fans’ perspective, he is a relative unknown who is vastly over paid. That was my initial impression as well. However, he seems to always be talked of fondly by Raiders sports writers. They seem to indicate he is a great pick up, every time you hear them talk about him. What do they know from watching him play, that we don’t? Will he finally break out now that he is more of a clear number two target as opposed to an afterthought on the depth chart? What do you guys predict? Will he exceed expectations, meet expectations, or underwhelm?

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His only decent season was with the Bills when Josh Allen was a rookie. He had some legal trouble I remember. And the past 3 seasons were uninspiring. Maybe third team is a charm? I have more faith in Kirk who has worked around elite WRs.

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So I have seen a lot of contradictory opinions regarding Zay Jones. It seems that from the fans’ perspective, he is a relative unknown who is vastly over paid. That was my initial impression as well. However, he seems to always be talked of fondly by Raiders sports writers. They seem to indicate he is a great pick up, every time you hear them talk about him. What do they know from watching him play, that we don’t? Will he finally break out now that he is more of a clear number two target as opposed to an afterthought on the depth chart? What do you guys predict? Will he exceed expectations, meet expectations, or underwhelm?

Watching all of his targets from last year gave me an appreciation of him.  He wasn't signed to be a number 1 and we should not expect that.  But he can be a good second or third option.  I came away thinking he is a solid pro who elevates the floor of our receiver room.  He gets separation through speed and good route running.  He seems to have a knack for finding the void in the defense and settling into it.  He has pretty good hands.  On the targets he did not catch, two thirds of them were bad throws by Carr and several others were just good plays by the defender.  

It's going to be interesting to see where and how much he plays.  I expect him to be X or Z based on last year's highlights.  Unless we draft a rookie X who can break into the lineup early, three of Jones, Jones, Kirk, and Engram are going to be on the field the majority of the time.  And that is an improvement as a group over what we had last year.  Treadwell and Shenault will get snaps, too.

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Beggars can't be choosers. It's not like this free agency class had a lot to be desired to begin with. In fairness, they landed Kirk, one of the top guys being touted across the board. You were not getting Adams, Cooper or Hill without giving up draft picks. Also, I don't think this team is one superstar WR away from running the table so it wouldn't have made much sense even if they did offer picks.

I think Zay Jones will offer more speed and play making ability than what we saw out of last year's group. It'll be an interesting off season. Again, can't blame them for trying. They had to do something.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Unless something major happens before the season opens, I expect very little from any of the WR's currently on our roster. Once again, we lack talent. Signing Zay Jones just showed how desperate we were and how much the front office had to reach to bring WR's here.

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Unless something major happens before the season opens, I expect very little from any of the WR's currently on our roster. Once again, we lack talent. Signing Zay Jones just showed how desperate we were and how much the front office had to reach to bring WR's here.

Only moves left really are to either trade up on the opening night or hope somebody solid falls to 33.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Unless something major happens before the season opens, I expect very little from any of the WR's currently on our roster. Once again, we lack talent. Signing Zay Jones just showed how desperate we were and how much the front office had to reach to bring WR's here.

Only moves left really are to either trade up on the opening night or hope somebody solid falls to 33.

I know it's not realistic, but I'm still holding out hope for a D.K. Metcalf trade or even a trade for Tyler Lockett. Trading up to draft a WR in round 1, would also make me happy as well. The only receivers I would want at #33 are Jameson Williams, Drake London, Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson or Jahan Dotson and I don't see any of those guys falling that far. There are a ton of teams with receiver needs in round 1.

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Only moves left really are to either trade up on the opening night or hope somebody solid falls to 33.

I know it's not realistic, but I'm still holding out hope for a D.K. Metcalf trade or even a trade for Tyler Lockett. Trading up to draft a WR in round 1, would also make me happy as well. The only receivers I would want at #33 are Jameson Williams, Drake London, Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson or Jahan Dotson and I don't see any of those guys falling that far. There are a ton of teams with receiver needs in round 1.

You realize Lockett isn't even on the trade block, right? 

Someone put a tweet out from a fake account to start that rumor. 

I listened to a former scout turned analyst on the radio the other day talk about Dotson and he got me pretty fired up about the prospect.Dotson played more than half his college snaps from the X position despite his size.

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Only moves left really are to either trade up on the opening night or hope somebody solid falls to 33.

I know it's not realistic, but I'm still holding out hope for a D.K. Metcalf trade or even a trade for Tyler Lockett. Trading up to draft a WR in round 1, would also make me happy as well. The only receivers I would want at #33 are Jameson Williams, Drake London, Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson or Jahan Dotson and I don't see any of those guys falling that far. There are a ton of teams with receiver needs in round 1.

Yeah. Realistically, before the trade deal went down with the Saints and Eagles I thought there was maybe a good chance they could have worked something out with the Eagles to get back up into the top 20s. That's off the table now. There's two receivers I think that could fall though. Dotson is one of them. I also think Burks will be there. He didn't test nor run nearly as good as people thought he would. His route tree is limited. However, his size and playing speed still look good on film. 

I also like a few mid to late round options. Calvin Austin III, Alec Pierce, David Bell, Danny Gray & Velus Jones Jr. might be decent consolation prizes at some point in the draft. There's also the whole "four picks in the sixth round" thing too. I cannot wrap my head around Baalke taking four players in such a low value round. Will be completely disappointed if he doesn't figure out a way to package those up into better value picks that weekend.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Not to derail the main topic though and turn this into a college football forum post.

Zay Jones. 6'2 - 200 pounds. Coming off his best year at 26 years old since his 2nd year in the NFL. Showed a lot of promise with just 70 targets last year. Averaged 11.6 YPC. That's really not that bad compared to the fact that Marvin Jones had 50 more targets and averaged 11.4 YPC. There's a lot of promise with Zay Jones. Could be one of those guys later on this year where he might slip off the radar a game or two but then you see him pop off one week for 100+ and a TD or two.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

As a 2nd or 3rd WR, I like Zay Jones. He does seem to create/find separation and has very good hands (ie. under 2% drop rate). Yes, he was overpaid. But, I think he'll be a good addition. The drops last year was a constant drive killer for the Jags.

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I still think we're over analyzing the WR position, now, granted, last year's group was pure dog [BLEEP] at times.

However, I still think this offense is TE centric in the passing game. I expect a lot of routes over the middle with the RPO. A lot of safety valve and dump off's to the RB's, etc.

The WR's in Pederson's system historically seem to be showcased as if he's playing a game of pool. And what I mean by that is it seems like Pederson specifically uses the running game, the TE position and RB position in the passing game with the intention of getting the offense within that 30 - 40 yard range from the redzone to start taking a shot with the WR position. "Call your pocket" so to speak. It's like, I hit the 5, 6 & 7 in a row (Run, TE catch, RB catch). Now, watch me crack this 8 from left to right (Deep shot to WR). He did it routinely in Philadelphia. I don't expect that to change.

Between Kirk, Jones & Jones and Shenault they might get a good group of production out of them overall. I just expect one of them to be a focal point each week with none of them truly separating themselves from the pack and being relied upon over and over again on a weekly basis. I know people don't want to hear that because of Kirk's contract. But, again, I can only go by what I have seen on film and on the stat sheet.

And, again. Historically? Pederson might as well be dressed up like the Nesquik Bunny because he's clearly big on sharing the wealth.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I still think we're over analyzing the WR position, now, granted, last year's group was pure dog [BLEEP] at times.

However, I still think this offense is TE centric in the passing game. I expect a lot of routes over the middle with the RPO. A lot of safety valve and dump off's to the RB's, etc.

The WR's in Pederson's system historically seem to be showcased as if he's playing a game of pool. And what I mean by that is it seems like Pederson specifically uses the running game, the TE position and RB position in the passing game with the intention of getting the offense within that 30 - 40 yard range from the redzone to start taking a shot with the WR position. "Call your pocket" so to speak. It's like, I hit the 5, 6 & 7 in a row (Run, TE catch, RB catch). Now, watch me crack this 8 from left to right (Deep shot to WR). He did it routinely in Philadelphia. I don't expect that to change.

Between Kirk, Jones & Jones and Shenault they might get a good group of production out of them overall. I just expect one of them to be a focal point each week with none of them truly separating themselves from the pack and being relied upon over and over again on a weekly basis. I know people don't want to hear that because of Kirk's contract. But, again, I can only go by what I have seen on film and on the stat sheet.

And, again. Historically? Pederson might as well be dressed up like the Nesquik Bunny because he's clearly big on sharing the wealth.

I really hope Brian Robinson falls to the 4th.  I seriously doubt it but he will be one of the steals of the draft if we can get him there.  I'd honestly  consider him at 70.  I don't want to draft a RB that early but if a RB is at the top of my board I'm taking him.  Probably the most underrated player in this draft imo along with Kaiir Elam, 2 studs that don't get talked about

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I know it's not realistic, but I'm still holding out hope for a D.K. Metcalf trade or even a trade for Tyler Lockett. Trading up to draft a WR in round 1, would also make me happy as well. The only receivers I would want at #33 are Jameson Williams, Drake London, Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson or Jahan Dotson and I don't see any of those guys falling that far. There are a ton of teams with receiver needs in round 1.

You realize Lockett isn't even on the trade block, right? 

Someone put a tweet out from a fake account to start that rumor. 

I listened to a former scout turned analyst on the radio the other day talk about Dotson and he got me pretty fired up about the prospect.Dotson played more than half his college snaps from the X position despite his size.

No, I didn't. I thought he really was on the trade block. That sucks. Not that we would've traded for him anyway. 

I'd love Dotson, but we'd have to trade up to get him. No way he gets passed Green Bay and Kansas City.

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I still think we're over analyzing the WR position, now, granted, last year's group was pure dog [BLEEP] at times.

However, I still think this offense is TE centric in the passing game. I expect a lot of routes over the middle with the RPO. A lot of safety valve and dump off's to the RB's, etc.

The WR's in Pederson's system historically seem to be showcased as if he's playing a game of pool. And what I mean by that is it seems like Pederson specifically uses the running game, the TE position and RB position in the passing game with the intention of getting the offense within that 30 - 40 yard range from the redzone to start taking a shot with the WR position. "Call your pocket" so to speak. It's like, I hit the 5, 6 & 7 in a row (Run, TE catch, RB catch). Now, watch me crack this 8 from left to right (Deep shot to WR). He did it routinely in Philadelphia. I don't expect that to change.

Between Kirk, Jones & Jones and Shenault they might get a good group of production out of them overall. I just expect one of them to be a focal point each week with none of them truly separating themselves from the pack and being relied upon over and over again on a weekly basis. I know people don't want to hear that because of Kirk's contract. But, again, I can only go by what I have seen on film and on the stat sheet.

And, again. Historically? Pederson might as well be dressed up like the Nesquik Bunny because he's clearly big on sharing the wealth.

I really hope Brian Robinson falls to the 4th.  I seriously doubt it but he will be one of the steals of the draft if we can get him there.  I'd honestly  consider him at 70.  I don't want to draft a RB that early but if a RB is at the top of my board I'm taking him.  Probably the most underrated player in this draft imo along with Kaiir Elam, 2 studs that don't get talked about

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I still think we're over analyzing the WR position, now, granted, last year's group was pure dog [BLEEP] at times.

However, I still think this offense is TE centric in the passing game. I expect a lot of routes over the middle with the RPO. A lot of safety valve and dump off's to the RB's, etc.

The WR's in Pederson's system historically seem to be showcased as if he's playing a game of pool. And what I mean by that is it seems like Pederson specifically uses the running game, the TE position and RB position in the passing game with the intention of getting the offense within that 30 - 40 yard range from the redzone to start taking a shot with the WR position. "Call your pocket" so to speak. It's like, I hit the 5, 6 & 7 in a row (Run, TE catch, RB catch). Now, watch me crack this 8 from left to right (Deep shot to WR). He did it routinely in Philadelphia. I don't expect that to change.

Between Kirk, Jones & Jones and Shenault they might get a good group of production out of them overall. I just expect one of them to be a focal point each week with none of them truly separating themselves from the pack and being relied upon over and over again on a weekly basis. I know people don't want to hear that because of Kirk's contract. But, again, I can only go by what I have seen on film and on the stat sheet.

And, again. Historically? Pederson might as well be dressed up like the Nesquik Bunny because he's clearly big on sharing the wealth.

I really hope Brian Robinson falls to the 4th.  I seriously doubt it but he will be one of the steals of the draft if we can get him there.  I'd honestly  consider him at 70.  I don't want to draft a RB that early but if a RB is at the top of my board I'm taking him.  Probably the most underrated player in this draft imo along with Kaiir Elam, 2 studs that don't get talked about

Brian Robinson will probably be available in the 5th or 6th round. This RB class is loaded with a lot more athletic guys, which should push him down the board.

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You realize Lockett isn't even on the trade block, right? 

Someone put a tweet out from a fake account to start that rumor. 

I listened to a former scout turned analyst on the radio the other day talk about Dotson and he got me pretty fired up about the prospect.Dotson played more than half his college snaps from the X position despite his size.

No, I didn't. I thought he really was on the trade block. That sucks. Not that we would've traded for him anyway. 

I'd love Dotson, but we'd have to trade up to get him. No way he gets passed Green Bay and Kansas City.

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I really hope Brian Robinson falls to the 4th.  I seriously doubt it but he will be one of the steals of the draft if we can get him there.  I'd honestly  consider him at 70.  I don't want to draft a RB that early but if a RB is at the top of my board I'm taking him.  Probably the most underrated player in this draft imo along with Kaiir Elam, 2 studs that don't get talked about

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I really hope Brian Robinson falls to the 4th.  I seriously doubt it but he will be one of the steals of the draft if we can get him there.  I'd honestly  consider him at 70.  I don't want to draft a RB that early but if a RB is at the top of my board I'm taking him.  Probably the most underrated player in this draft imo along with Kaiir Elam, 2 studs that don't get talked about

Brian Robinson will probably be available in the 5th or 6th round. This RB class is loaded with a lot more athletic guys, which should push him down the board.

I highly doubt that, I don't care about what RBs are more athletic, I want the best RB and Robinson is right up there with the Walker and Hall.  I'd love to add Pierce as well.

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IMO our current group isn't as bad as people seem to think. Last year we had one of the worst coaching staffs/WR coach. This year the group will be better with Pederson and a better Trevor. Sure, I'd love to get a #1 but if we don't get one I don't see it as a big problem.

Didn't someone post that Pederson never had a WR with more than 1000 yards in a season?

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"Treyvon Wallet is elite run defender and better overall than Aidan Hutchinson" 11/11/23

IMO our current group isn't as bad as people seem to think. Last year we had one of the worst coaching staffs/WR coach. This year the group will be better with Pederson and a better Trevor. Sure, I'd love to get a #1 but if we don't get one I don't see it as a big problem.

Didn't someone post that Pederson never had a WR with more than 1000 yards in a season?

Yea. He has never had one but I think that has more to do with his lack of WR talent. Alshon was his best WR? And he was always hurt.

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Yes I’m intrigued to see what Zay Jones can do. He seemed really likable in his interview. I think having him, Kirk, and Jones on the field together will add up to something bigger than the individual parts. Like others have said, we had so many drops that ended drives on third downs last year. Additionally, teams basically knew they only had to really cover Marvin Jones. He is not the type of receiver Who will thrive in that type of number one role. I’m hoping with three quality receivers who are at least professional grade, we will see that with the right play calling there will be someone open with separation who can catch a ball.

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I’ll add that having some quality tight end options will be immensely helpful to compliment the receivers as well.

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IMO our current group isn't as bad as people seem to think. Last year we had one of the worst coaching staffs/WR coach. This year the group will be better with Pederson and a better Trevor. Sure, I'd love to get a #1 but if we don't get one I don't see it as a big problem.

Didn't someone post that Pederson never had a WR with more than 1000 yards in a season?

Yeah. I broke the numbers down somewhere in a thread around here. Every year he was with the Eagles it was pretty clear the passing game was evenly distributed where no particular player on offense would stand out in particular. He was naturally spoiled though having Zach Ertz as his TE. They also invested in other players like Dallas Goedert (I recall quite a few people on here high on him during that draft, myself, NOT included) and I think maybe Brett Celek was there? Didn't dig too deep. 

But, yeah, to make it simple. It was hard to find any WR leading his receiving rankings and it was rare you would find any group heavily out weighing the other. For example. I say that his offense is TE centric. But, it's an RPO, it makes sense on paper when you think about the concept of freezing linebackers and safeties to cheat up around the line to buy into the threat or a RB or QB taking off on them. The TE would be the natural first read and react target for the QB in the event he opts to pass it. 

Numbers wise though? They were relatively close. TE1 - 900 - 1100 yards, give or take, and then WR1 would be right behind him with something like 700 - 900 yards, then it's a toss up between WR2 and TE2 with the RB position sprinkled in there. Again, very much a believer in spreading the wealth around. Something Belichick has done for decades now in New England and it still applies and works well right now in the NFL. 

IMO our current group isn't as bad as people seem to think. Last year we had one of the worst coaching staffs/WR coach. This year the group will be better with Pederson and a better Trevor. Sure, I'd love to get a #1 but if we don't get one I don't see it as a big problem.

Didn't someone post that Pederson never had a WR with more than 1000 yards in a season?

Yea. He has never had one but I think that has more to do with his lack of WR talent. Alshon was his best WR? And he was always hurt.

That's precisely why I am not getting bent out of shape about the WR position at the moment. He had a tremendous amount of success and fluidity on offense with around average to slightly above average play at the WR position. All the more reason I am impressed with him. And, to your point and credit. Injuries did play a hand in some of his WR's never eclipsing the 1,000 yard mark. Alshon was damn near close one year. Oddly enough, I think it was during a year when Ertz missed quite a bit of playing time. Which, again, shows Pederson's ability to read and react to his personnel issues.

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Yes I’m intrigued to see what Zay Jones can do. He seemed really likable in his interview. I think having him, Kirk, and Jones on the field together will add up to something bigger than the individual parts. Like others have said, we had so many drops that ended drives on third downs last year. Additionally, teams basically knew they only had to really cover Marvin Jones. He is not the type of receiver Who will thrive in that type of number one role. I’m hoping with three quality receivers who are at least professional grade, we will see that with the right play calling there will be someone open with separation who can catch a ball.

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I’ll add that having some quality tight end options will be immensely helpful to compliment the receivers as well.

I think Zay Jones is probably going to give you about 700 yards and 4 - 5 TD's this year if they can get him to around 100 targets over the course of 17 games. Which is very doable. Comes down to about 6 looks per game. That's not a BAD deal on paper. Especially for a new location and offense.

I don't know what Marvin Jones' contract looks like, but, he was fairly decent last year with his first year here. I hope they keep him on the team. I don't how it will shake out. Shenault should get another year I think. If Baalke doesn't draft a WR with one of those third round selections or trade up for a WR at some point I think it's pretty much guaranteed you're looking at Kirk, Jones & Jones with Shenault and Treadwell fighting for playing time on the football field all year.

Arnold and Engram should benefit at the TE position in this offense. If they don't end up drafting a WR they stand a good chance to land their pick of the litter at the TE position around pick 65.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

The O-Line Matters wrote:

No, I didn't. I thought he really was on the trade block. That sucks. Not that we would've traded for him anyway. 

I'd love Dotson, but we'd have to trade up to get him. No way he gets passed Green Bay and Kansas City.

I'm convinced the first 6 best WRs will be gone by 33.  Wilson, London, Williams, Olave, Burks, Dotson, and maybe Moore will all be taken.  Nothing I've seen out of Pederson and Baalke leads me to believe they would be bold enough to trade back up into the 1st.  And I'm not sure it would be best for the construction of the roster anyway.  It will take a lot of draft capital to move up.  You're easily trading the possibility of 4 or more contributors to move up for the WR you may covet.  At this stage in the rebuild, I don't think that's necessarily wise.

I wouldn't be shocked if the reached for Trey MacBride at 33.  The value chart may say you should only draft him in the lower half of the second.  We might possibly trade down if we can find a partner.  But if he's your guy and you can't find a partner, I wouldn't crucify them for taking him.  I think we can find value in round 3 for a WR.  And since I think we still need to find 2 IOL and a LB, we may have to prioritize pass catcher lower even if that means we don't get the TE or WR we really covet.  To me nothing is more important than fixing the OL.  And as it stands at the moment, it's not fixed.

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