What would you give Engram and Taylor?

100 million to Engram and 100 million to Taylor.

But in reality, I'm waiting to see how much cap space the team is working with after restructures and cuts before making them an offer.

It wouldn't surprise me if you would give them a blank check.

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100 million to Engram and 100 million to Taylor.

But in reality, I'm waiting to see how much cap space the team is working with after restructures and cuts before making them an offer.

It wouldn't surprise me if you would give them a blank check.

Coming from the guy who wants to sign an aging Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham... That's rich.

I'm not giving them a blank check but I'm also being realistic. They aren't (and shouldn't) going to take a discount just to play here. If Baalke really wants them, he will have to pay up because teams like the Bears have a ton of holes and tons of cash. 

The only player on the Jags I would give a blank check to is Trevor.

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It wouldn't surprise me if you would give them a blank check.

Coming from the guy who wants to sign an aging Fletcher Cox and Brandon Graham... That's rich.

I'm not giving them a blank check but I'm also being realistic. They aren't (and shouldn't) going to take a discount just to play here. If Baalke really wants them, he will have to pay up because teams like the Bears have a ton of holes and tons of cash. 

The only player on the Jags I would give a blank check to is Trevor.

You forgot Hargrave as well, I'd absolutely like to add those guys to this dline.  If you don't you didn't watch h the Jags and Eagles dlines this year.  

I haven't seen the first person on here saying that these guys should give a  home team discount lol.  I'm confident Baalke will be smart with the money this year judging by his press conference. If the Bears have a ton of cash and wants to be stupid with the money it's better them than us.  We will have a couple players that will want to be here and get fair deals done for both sides.

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I'd do what ever I can to re-sign Engram and I let Taylor Walk. We already have Walker Little in place as Taylor's replacement at RT. I really don't see much of a drop off there and I would assume Little will get better as he gets more experience. All we have to do is find a Swing Tackle in the draft to replace Little, once he moves in as a full-time starter. It's gonna save us valuable cap money that we can use when we need to extend Lawrence in the near future and it allows us some valuable money right now, to re-sign Engram.

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I'd do what ever I can to re-sign Engram and I let Taylor Walk. We already have Walker Little in place as Taylor's replacement at RT. I really don't see much of a drop off there and I would assume Little will get better as he gets more experience. All we have to do is find a Swing Tackle in the draft to replace Little, once he moves in as a full-time starter. It's gonna save us valuable cap money that we can use when we need to extend Lawrence in the near future and it allows us some valuable money right now, to re-sign Engram.

Why do people assume that RT and LT are interchangeable?  It was quite obvious that Little is far better as a LT.

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If Taylor hits FA then he will easily get $9m+ a year from someone. Lots of teams with cap to burn and just look at the Oline market in recent years, guys getting crazy overpaid. We went big on Norwell and we are paying Scherff $20m in 2023. Teams will give big contracts to oline as its an important position and you want to protect your QB.

I'd like to keep Taylor but just not sure how we can do it financially. You keep Taylor then you have to let others walk.

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Again, go and look at the current RT's and look at the total contract amount. Giving Taylor what I offered would put him right in the middle of the pack. Literally puts him right at the 15th or 16th mark.

You think he should be making more money than Wirfs and McGlinchey who were former first rounders and have been consistently better than Taylor since day one? No way. No thanks. Anything over $20M in TOTAL is wayyyyy too rich for my blood.

Especially for a guy that's only decent in pass protection and a complete liability in run blocking. Again, I am sure a team that's desperate will overpay him but I am not sold after ONE year of good play where he was extremely inconsistent and had a ton of mental lapses the prior two, three years.

How may years are you talking about makes a difference?  1 at 20 mil, 2, 3?

I felt a four year deal, valued at $17.5M with $3.5M given to him up front was fair. There's a total of 94 players listed on the OTC website at RT. When you look at the total contract value, regardless of years, bonuses, etc. 

$17.5M in total contract value would bump him up from his current spot of 33rd overall to right around 15th, 16th. He's not an elite pass blocker. He's an average run blocker. He's a former 2nd RD pick that already made decent enough money. 

Here's my question. I think the franchise tag for lineman is valued at $18.2M at the moment for this year. If you're an agent, given the circumstances, as well as his age. He'll be 26 towards the end of this year. Would you rather encourage him to sign this deal above or as a team, would you tag him and seek an actual extension with Engram instead? 

Again, $20M+ for Taylor seems incredibly steep. I am strictly basing my contract around the fact that he was a late bloomer play wise as a 2nd RD pick and the fact that I only have one year of solid production to go off of. With it being mostly a one tricky pony effort in pass blocking with a lot to be desired in the run blocking department.

Again, he's getting $3.5M up front just for signing the four year deal. He's getting $3.5M over the course of four years on average (which puts him just below Wirfs and McGlinchey APY wise), he'll be 29 by the time this contract expires. If he's good as he thinks he is he can holdout midway through this contract or press his luck in the future with free agency again. 

He's an average RT and I am making him an offer based on that fact. Elite tackles do it all, they're well rounded, they don't give up the big sacks, they don't get blown off their blocks in the running game and they don't make costly mental errors on critical drives. 

He's had one good year out of four.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I'd do what ever I can to re-sign Engram and I let Taylor Walk. We already have Walker Little in place as Taylor's replacement at RT. I really don't see much of a drop off there and I would assume Little will get better as he gets more experience. All we have to do is find a Swing Tackle in the draft to replace Little, once he moves in as a full-time starter. It's gonna save us valuable cap money that we can use when we need to extend Lawrence in the near future and it allows us some valuable money right now, to re-sign Engram.

Why do people assume that RT and LT are interchangeable?  It was quite obvious that Little is far better as a LT.

He's serviceable as a RT and the more reps he gets at the position, the better he should get. What's the alternative? We can't re-sign Taylor and Engram. Both will command pretty decent contracts on the open market and I would MUCH rather have Engram. Maybe we get lucky and find an OT in the middle rounds of the draft who plays better at RT than Little does and Little can stay at Swing Tackle. Who knows?

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Found this to be an interesting perspective by Clay Harbor and his past FA situation
Remember, the team is not the only ones making tough decisions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlAQ39rSCx4

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Why do people assume that RT and LT are interchangeable?  It was quite obvious that Little is far better as a LT.

He's serviceable as a RT and the more reps he gets at the position, the better he should get. What's the alternative? We can't re-sign Taylor and Engram. Both will command pretty decent contracts on the open market and I would MUCH rather have Engram. Maybe we get lucky and find an OT in the middle rounds of the draft who plays better at RT than Little does and Little can stay at Swing Tackle. Who knows?

The alternative is getting your QB's teeth kicked in or worse. I could see them drafting a RT or signing a cheap veteran at this point if Taylor ends up walking. 

Little CLEARLY looks, feels and plays more naturally at the LT position. I honestly think he's a lot more faster and can benefit the offense more at LT than Robinson. 

Baalke blundered this situation a bit IMHO. I can't say I blame him though. I don't want to say he panicked but if you factor in that Robinson can't stay healthy, Taylor, really up until last year had been a huge letdown as a 2nd RD pick and then Little being pretty much mismanaged like the whole team in 2021 by Meyer. 

It was hard to find a solution along the line short of drafting a tackle number one overall over Travon Walker. I still think they figure out a way to extend Engram to a fair deal. I think they'll try and work something out with Taylor but they won't break the bank for him because they can't afford it.

Trust the process I guess. Maybe they'll look at a guy like Paris Johnson, Broderick Jones or Anton Harrison in RD2.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

How may years are you talking about makes a difference?  1 at 20 mil, 2, 3?

I felt a four year deal, valued at $17.5M with $3.5M given to him up front was fair. There's a total of 94 players listed on the OTC website at RT. When you look at the total contract value, regardless of years, bonuses, etc. 

$17.5M in total contract value would bump him up from his current spot of 33rd overall to right around 15th, 16th. He's not an elite pass blocker. He's an average run blocker. He's a former 2nd RD pick that already made decent enough money. 

Here's my question. I think the franchise tag for lineman is valued at $18.2M at the moment for this year. If you're an agent, given the circumstances, as well as his age. He'll be 26 towards the end of this year. Would you rather encourage him to sign this deal above or as a team, would you tag him and seek an actual extension with Engram instead? 

Again, $20M+ for Taylor seems incredibly steep. I am strictly basing my contract around the fact that he was a late bloomer play wise as a 2nd RD pick and the fact that I only have one year of solid production to go off of. With it being mostly a one tricky pony effort in pass blocking with a lot to be desired in the run blocking department.

Again, he's getting $3.5M up front just for signing the four year deal. He's getting $3.5M over the course of four years on average (which puts him just below Wirfs and McGlinchey APY wise), he'll be 29 by the time this contract expires. If he's good as he thinks he is he can holdout midway through this contract or press his luck in the future with free agency again. 

He's an average RT and I am making him an offer based on that fact. Elite tackles do it all, they're well rounded, they don't give up the big sacks, they don't get blown off their blocks in the running game and they don't make costly mental errors on critical drives. 

He's had one good year out of four.

Gotcha, I thought you meant 20 mil per season.  Taylor will get much more than 3.5 mil per year.  I think he gets at least 10 mil per year.  McGlinchey and Wirfs are both on their rookie deals, they will get much more than that when they sign their extensions

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He's serviceable as a RT and the more reps he gets at the position, the better he should get. What's the alternative? We can't re-sign Taylor and Engram. Both will command pretty decent contracts on the open market and I would MUCH rather have Engram. Maybe we get lucky and find an OT in the middle rounds of the draft who plays better at RT than Little does and Little can stay at Swing Tackle. Who knows?

The alternative is getting your QB's teeth kicked in or worse. I could see them drafting a RT or signing a cheap veteran at this point if Taylor ends up walking. 

Little CLEARLY looks, feels and plays more naturally at the LT position. I honestly think he's a lot more faster and can benefit the offense more at LT than Robinson. 

Baalke blundered this situation a bit IMHO. I can't say I blame him though. I don't want to say he panicked but if you factor in that Robinson can't stay healthy, Taylor, really up until last year had been a huge letdown as a 2nd RD pick and then Little being pretty much mismanaged like the whole team in 2021 by Meyer. 

It was hard to find a solution along the line short of drafting a tackle number one overall over Travon Walker. I still think they figure out a way to extend Engram to a fair deal. I think they'll try and work something out with Taylor but they won't break the bank for him because they can't afford it.

Trust the process I guess. Maybe they'll look at a guy like Paris Johnson, Broderick Jones or Anton Harrison in RD2.

Totally agree. Robinson should've never been extended given his history with us. Both he and Taylor had been disappointments. Taylor is just now turning into an average RT and you're right, Robinson can't stay healthy. We definitely need to work on our O-Line and hopefully, we invest in this area heavily via the draft. We cannot afford to invest a lot of money in an average RT like Taylor when we are so far over the cap and we need to re-sign the best TE we've ever had for this franchise. It's just a bad situation all around, but I still consider us in re-building mode. Some areas are gonna have to be "tinkered" with. Unless we strike gold on a mid round OT, the situation is what it is. I just don't see any possible way we keep both Taylor and Engram and Engram is the definite priority. 

I would love it if we selected someone like Paris Johnson, Broderick Jones or Anton Harrison in round two, but it would be a miracle if any of these players fell all the way to our pick. I think there is a good chance they all get taken in round 1, certainly Johnson and Jones. I believe if Harrison falls to round 2, he would almost certainly be selected within the first 10 picks of the round. Along with Peter Skoronski, these are the top guys at the OT position from what I'm reading. OT's, especially LT's are in huge demand around the NFL.

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when someone says $X.XX over Y years, you divde the X by Y. Why do you keep fixating on the total amount as a yearly amount?

That said, I think Caldrac is way off, Taylor will be looking at much more than $5M per season from his suitors. I don't think we enter the mix, nor do I really want to, at that expense. I think the rookie deals in that list skew things way off, too. I'd expect him in the area of 4yrs, 32-36M total, 20M guaranteed.

Because he was talking about 17.5 and 20 mil per year not guaranteed money.  20 mil per year would make him the highest paid RT annually

where? I see phrases like "17 over four years" and "total value" when mentioning the number.

I think you implied 17 per year.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would consider Taylor worth 17 mill a season. Trust me, as I am most definitely not in my right mind.

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Because he was talking about 17.5 and 20 mil per year not guaranteed money.  20 mil per year would make him the highest paid RT annually

where? I see phrases like "17 over four years" and "total value" when mentioning the number.

I think you implied 17 per year.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would consider Taylor worth 17 mill a season. Trust me, as I am most definitely not in my right mind.

Taylor is going to get more than that on the open market, whether he's worth it or not.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I felt a four year deal, valued at $17.5M with $3.5M given to him up front was fair. There's a total of 94 players listed on the OTC website at RT. When you look at the total contract value, regardless of years, bonuses, etc. 

$17.5M in total contract value would bump him up from his current spot of 33rd overall to right around 15th, 16th. He's not an elite pass blocker. He's an average run blocker. He's a former 2nd RD pick that already made decent enough money. 

Here's my question. I think the franchise tag for lineman is valued at $18.2M at the moment for this year. If you're an agent, given the circumstances, as well as his age. He'll be 26 towards the end of this year. Would you rather encourage him to sign this deal above or as a team, would you tag him and seek an actual extension with Engram instead? 

Again, $20M+ for Taylor seems incredibly steep. I am strictly basing my contract around the fact that he was a late bloomer play wise as a 2nd RD pick and the fact that I only have one year of solid production to go off of. With it being mostly a one tricky pony effort in pass blocking with a lot to be desired in the run blocking department.

Again, he's getting $3.5M up front just for signing the four year deal. He's getting $3.5M over the course of four years on average (which puts him just below Wirfs and McGlinchey APY wise), he'll be 29 by the time this contract expires. If he's good as he thinks he is he can holdout midway through this contract or press his luck in the future with free agency again. 

He's an average RT and I am making him an offer based on that fact. Elite tackles do it all, they're well rounded, they don't give up the big sacks, they don't get blown off their blocks in the running game and they don't make costly mental errors on critical drives. 

He's had one good year out of four.

Gotcha, I thought you meant 20 mil per season.  Taylor will get much more than 3.5 mil per year.  I think he gets at least 10 mil per year.  McGlinchey and Wirfs are both on their rookie deals, they will get much more than that when they sign their extensions

I agree. I cited that earlier in this thread with McGlinchey and Wirfs. They're probably looking at $96M+ overall for the long haul. Which makes sense. Those guys are former first round picks, lived up to the hype, played on Superbowl caliber rosters, elite across the board, etc. 

Taylor's not one of those guys and if he's getting $10M per year I am willing to bet it's a short term contract and not a long haul deal. Would probably be a two year deal at the most by a team looking to push deep into the play-offs. 

Which is risky as a player because if you get injured during that two year contract and you're free to walk after that your value could take a massive [BLEEP]. 

I don't see any team offering him a four year deal worth close to or more than $40M though. That's just too much for a guy that's shown you "some" improvement after three years of stinking it up and also resulting in this team having to take a chance on Walker Little with a 2nd RD pick just two years ago.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

How may years are you talking about makes a difference?  1 at 20 mil, 2, 3?

I felt a four year deal, valued at $17.5M with $3.5M given to him up front was fair. There's a total of 94 players listed on the OTC website at RT. When you look at the total contract value, regardless of years, bonuses, etc. 

$17.5M in total contract value would bump him up from his current spot of 33rd overall to right around 15th, 16th. He's not an elite pass blocker. He's an average run blocker. He's a former 2nd RD pick that already made decent enough money. 

Here's my question. I think the franchise tag for lineman is valued at $18.2M at the moment for this year. If you're an agent, given the circumstances, as well as his age. He'll be 26 towards the end of this year. Would you rather encourage him to sign this deal above or as a team, would you tag him and seek an actual extension with Engram instead? 

Again, $20M+ for Taylor seems incredibly steep. I am strictly basing my contract around the fact that he was a late bloomer play wise as a 2nd RD pick and the fact that I only have one year of solid production to go off of. With it being mostly a one tricky pony effort in pass blocking with a lot to be desired in the run blocking department.

Again, he's getting $3.5M up front just for signing the four year deal. He's getting $3.5M over the course of four years on average (which puts him just below Wirfs and McGlinchey APY wise), he'll be 29 by the time this contract expires. If he's good as he thinks he is he can holdout midway through this contract or press his luck in the future with free agency again. 

He's an average RT and I am making him an offer based on that fact. Elite tackles do it all, they're well rounded, they don't give up the big sacks, they don't get blown off their blocks in the running game and they don't make costly mental errors on critical drives. 

He's had one good year out of four.

Simply stated, I would be calling for Baalke's head if he offered Taylor tag money. Period.

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Gotcha, I thought you meant 20 mil per season.  Taylor will get much more than 3.5 mil per year.  I think he gets at least 10 mil per year.  McGlinchey and Wirfs are both on their rookie deals, they will get much more than that when they sign their extensions

I agree. I cited that earlier in this thread with McGlinchey and Wirfs. They're probably looking at $96M+ overall for the long haul. Which makes sense. Those guys are former first round picks, lived up to the hype, played on Superbowl caliber rosters, elite across the board, etc. 

Taylor's not one of those guys and if he's getting $10M per year I am willing to bet it's a short term contract and not a long haul deal. Would probably be a two year deal at the most by a team looking to push deep into the play-offs. 

Which is risky as a player because if you get injured during that two year contract and you're free to walk after that your value could take a massive [BLEEP]. 

I don't see any team offering him a four year deal worth close to or more than $40M though. That's just too much for a guy that's shown you "some" improvement after three years of stinking it up and also resulting in this team having to take a chance on Walker Little with a 2nd RD pick just two years ago.

Trevor makes every single offensive lineman look better than they actually are.

I'm ok moving on from Taylor but I also agree with others that Little looks far better at LT which leaves us with an odd situation in Robinson.

I also think we all need to be realistic. They are going to resign some of their own and then be bargain shopping most likely. So all these really good players that some people want will not be coming here because other teams have way more cash to throw at them.

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I agree. I cited that earlier in this thread with McGlinchey and Wirfs. They're probably looking at $96M+ overall for the long haul. Which makes sense. Those guys are former first round picks, lived up to the hype, played on Superbowl caliber rosters, elite across the board, etc. 

Taylor's not one of those guys and if he's getting $10M per year I am willing to bet it's a short term contract and not a long haul deal. Would probably be a two year deal at the most by a team looking to push deep into the play-offs. 

Which is risky as a player because if you get injured during that two year contract and you're free to walk after that your value could take a massive [BLEEP]. 

I don't see any team offering him a four year deal worth close to or more than $40M though. That's just too much for a guy that's shown you "some" improvement after three years of stinking it up and also resulting in this team having to take a chance on Walker Little with a 2nd RD pick just two years ago.

Trevor makes every single offensive lineman look better than they actually are.

I'm ok moving on from Taylor but I also agree with others that Little looks far better at LT which leaves us with an odd situation in Robinson.

Yep. That's Baalke's biggest turd in the teal colored punch bowl so far. Major bummer. Little should have a fair shake at competing for the LT job this summer. I don't know if Robinson can play RT but you could probably get away with plugging his [BLEEP] in at Guard and then drafting another RT.

Just can't get out of that contract yet with Robinson. [BLEEP] happens. I tried being reasonable with Baalke's thinking around that time. It's fair. I don't think he panicked. I think he did his homework and if he felt one of those lineman prospects was good enough to start right away he would have probably selected one of them over Travon Walker. 

I don't know how Ekwonu, Neal & Cross faired over a full season. But, they were on decent teams for sure. Carolina was decent in spite of shaky QB play and a midseason coaching change. The Giants made a nice little run and overachieved just like we did. Seattle as well. 

Those three guys must have played a role in all of that.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Trevor makes every single offensive lineman look better than they actually are.

I'm ok moving on from Taylor but I also agree with others that Little looks far better at LT which leaves us with an odd situation in Robinson.

Yep. That's Baalke's biggest turd in the teal colored punch bowl so far. Major bummer. Little should have a fair shake at competing for the LT job this summer. I don't know if Robinson can play RT but you could probably get away with plugging his [BLEEP] in at Guard and then drafting another RT.

Just can't get out of that contract yet with Robinson. [BLEEP] happens. I tried being reasonable with Baalke's thinking around that time. It's fair. I don't think he panicked. I think he did his homework and if he felt one of those lineman prospects was good enough to start right away he would have probably selected one of them over Travon Walker. 

I don't know how Ekwonu, Neal & Cross faired over a full season. But, they were on decent teams for sure. Carolina was decent in spite of shaky QB play and a midseason coaching change. The Giants made a nice little run and overachieved just like we did. Seattle as well. 

Those three guys must have played a role in all of that.

Cross is going to be very very good. The Seahawks in general absolutely nailed their draft. Cross, Woolen, Walker and Lucas are all going to be starters for a long time.

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Yep. That's Baalke's biggest turd in the teal colored punch bowl so far. Major bummer. Little should have a fair shake at competing for the LT job this summer. I don't know if Robinson can play RT but you could probably get away with plugging his [BLEEP] in at Guard and then drafting another RT.

Just can't get out of that contract yet with Robinson. [BLEEP] happens. I tried being reasonable with Baalke's thinking around that time. It's fair. I don't think he panicked. I think he did his homework and if he felt one of those lineman prospects was good enough to start right away he would have probably selected one of them over Travon Walker. 

I don't know how Ekwonu, Neal & Cross faired over a full season. But, they were on decent teams for sure. Carolina was decent in spite of shaky QB play and a midseason coaching change. The Giants made a nice little run and overachieved just like we did. Seattle as well. 

Those three guys must have played a role in all of that.

Cross is going to be very very good. The Seahawks in general absolutely nailed their draft. Cross, Woolen, Walker and Lucas are all going to be starters for a long time.

Yeah. That's how we need to draft moving forward. I know it's easier said than done but that's what the best teams do in this league.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."