I decided to start this discussion in a new thread because I thought it to be an interesting subject in light of the conversation in another thread that didn't start out in this vein but has ended up there.

Food for thought for anyone who think parents strongly influence or form their children's values. That is not always the case. 

John Fetterman, freshman Democratic senator, was raised by staunch conservatives with traditional values yet has always seen himself as a staunch progressive. He's not the only person to not take on the same values and political views of his family. 

To be sure though, one's personal values do not always translate to how they vote. 

My in-laws are lifelong democrat voters but are very conservative/traditional in their day-to-day lives. My husband turned out to be a Republican voter and conservative/traditional in his day-to-day life while his sister (and only sibling) is straight up a democrat voter and a hybrid in her day-to-day life. Her daughter turned out straight up conservative/traditional across the board. 

I've thought about looking at articles on the subject. What forms a person's values? Is it parental influence? Could it be nature vs nurture? It's not something I've ever really thought about because my experience is what I know and it's never really occurred to me to consider anything else. Perspective for those who may not get what I'm saying, consider this. I don't have a sense of smell and never have. It never occurs to me to think about what something smells like because I've never smelled anything - unless it's brought to my attention. You don't know what you don't know until someone or something brings it to your attention. 

If anyone comes across any articles on the subject I'd be interested to read them. I haven't read the following one yet but it's from the American Psychological Association and could be an interesting read.

Link 

Politics is personal

Research by political psychologists helps to explain why we vote the way we do—and is informing ways to improve democratic elections.

The 2016 U.S. presidential election took a lot of people by surprise. But while the election of Donald J. Trump may have been an anomaly in many ways, it wasn’t the “unexpected asteroid strike” it’s often made out to be, says Christopher Federico, PhD, a political psychologist at the Center for the Study of Political Psychology (CSPP) at the University of Minnesota.


“Trump’s election was the culmination of a trend, more than some radical unexpected disruption that occurred on November 8, 2016,” Federico says. “It resulted from a long period of evolution in terms of how and why people in the U.S. identify with different political parties.”

That insight is one of many from political psychologists who over the past few decades have plumbed the factors behind voter behavior and political identities, helping us understand politics on an individual level.

“Historically, political science has focused on institutions such as governments or political parties, and how they constrain the behavior of individuals,” says Federico. “What political psychology brings to the table is … understanding individual motivations and how we make sense of this complex world.”


More at the link.

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Hate to say this. But, for most of my life. My family on both sides always cautioned me and warned me about politics. They didn't tell me which way to lean. They didn't tell me to pick a side. They just tried to tell me that it's nearly impossible to make everybody happy and that tomorrow is never promised.

A lot of these politicians will simply promise you things that will never see the light of day. They'll sell you on an idea and then completely sell you out once they actually get into office. My parents flip flopped over the years. They were high on Bill Clinton in the 1990's. They didn't like Bush. They didn't like Bush Jr.

After things started coming out over the years. They leaned away from politics until Trump was up for election in 2016. They went all in on red and voted for him. They appreciated his dogmatic attitude and his honesty that was cut throat at times. My younger brother was leaning towards Bernie Sanders at that time. My Dad convinced him to go with Trump instead.

For me, personally. It's hard to tell you exactly where it comes from. It's not my parents though. As I got older and started studying things that interested me. Things like ancient cultures, stoicism, war, world history, economics, philosophy, etc. I began to come to my own conclusions. Governments are not perfect. Politicians are not perfect. Corporations are not perfect.

Often times, in fact, you will come to find that most of them are bought and paid for. Most of them are corrupt. The genuine candidates that tend to ask too many questions or give off the vibe that they genuinely give a [BLEEP] about your well being. Like Jesse Ventura, Ron Paul, etc. Those guys are often laughed out of the main parties and demonized by the media.

Then, I started reading books that would ultimately shape me into who I am at a young age. War is a Racket, Lords of Creation and a few documentaries on YouTube slowly but surely opened my eyes into things that most of the public wasn't maybe aware of. Esoteric Agenda, Zeitgeist, Everything is a rich Man's trick, interviews with William Cooper, some of the things that are now more socially acceptable to discuss openly that were once demonized when I was a kid or now more fact than fiction.

That's terrifying. Add in a little bit of George Carlin and his stance on it all and that also had a bit of an impact on me. It really feels like a our political system is just a show of smoke and mirrors. We really have a plutocracy running the show behind the scenes. All of those weird meetings in Bohemian Grove, the Bilderburgh Group meetings, the World Economic Forum now, etc.

All of that's been going on now for decades. Following the money will really, really open up your mind to how things work from my findings. Then you get into the deep state stuff with the FBI and CIA. I mean, it goes on and on and on. Sex trafficking, etc. It's just astronomically unfathomable for some people but it's something I have accepted as fact with me nearing the age of 35 this year.

I wanted to believe. I really did. I wanted to trust some of these red ties and blue ties over the years. I just can't do it anymore. Especially with fringe policies and rhetoric getting into the way of everyday living. I stand in the middle. A bit of classic liberalism views with fiscal conservative views. Not a fan of big Government. Not a fan of interfering or getting involved geopolitically. Not a fan of us leading the way in arms deals. Not a fan of the direction our public school system is going with this gender fluid nonsense and a number of other belief systems that come straight out Karl Marx's playbook.

Everything is corroding in my opinion. Our country is modern day Rome. The show is just about over for us. I think a lot of us can feel it and sense that deep down. And, to be fair, a lot of it's our fault. We deserve what's coming to us. We didn't fight back enough. We didn't push hard enough. We didn't demand enough honesty and transparency here. The only resolution in my opinion is all out war. Internally. Civil war. Until we take matters into our own hands? We're just going to be in this cyclical, abusive relationship with Uncle Sam.

The other problem with that? And I recognize the inherent danger and flaw in my belief. Which I don't even advocate, by the way. But, the moment we turn to that? What does that mean for the rest of the world and what does that mean for our actual threats out there globally? China and Russia would love to see this happen here across all of our borders. They'll come right on in and play mop up duty.

So, I don't know. In the grand scheme of things. I don't have a [BLEEP] clue. I just feel like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't at this point. It's scary. The two biggest things that stood out to me through all of this though was what happened with JFK, and Operation Northwoods. And then, before that, Woodrow Wilson in 1916 selling us out to the Federal Reserve.

Those two key moments have always cautioned me to question anything that smells even remotely fishy when it comes to Government handling and deep state dealings.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

My political views differ pretty sharply from my parents. Religious views as well. However I think there are deeper views laid out in childhood, and not intentionally. The world tells you what your strengths and weaknesses are then you strive to become the best version of yourself.

I'm not introverted but I am unathletic and socially awkward with a tendency to obsess about things no one else cares about. And I'm also really really good at pattern recognition and logic problems. So naturally I see politics less as a social phenomenon of various people trying to fit in and feel like winners, and more like a math problem where we try to find the answer that makes the most people happiest (usually some sort of in-between compromise).

I also grew up in the upper middle class and never had anything that might be called a trauma. So while a lot of people approach politics from a "if this doesn't go well I'll lose my house and starve" perspective, I can only think that way abstractly.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I think we're shaped by our entire life experience. My parents were die-hard liberals. My father was a lawyer. He, I, and my older brother had intellectual discussions at every dinner. It was competitive. I think what I got from him was a reliance on logic.

When I was growing up, I was even more liberal than my parents. But when I was in college, I became much more conservative. I rebelled against the knee-jerk liberalism on campus.

I think it's largely true that a person with little money is attracted to socialism, and a person with a lot of money is attracted to free market capitalism. I think we gravitate to the political values that are most to our own advantage. I think we adopt values and then spend our lives reinforcing them.

So most of the time, if you want to know where a person's values came from, you just have to look at their situation in life.

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Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner cartoons. The facts of life, right there.

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Sorry, didn’t read the entire OP. Going out on a limb here and saying John never got his but beat by his parents.

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My Grandpa was the smartest man I knew;how he lived his life is how I try to live mine.

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#Jags4Life

Tar Heel Jags Fan

My Grandpa was the smartest man I knew;how he lived his life is how I try to live mine.

In what way?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I think we're shaped by our entire life experience. My parents were die-hard liberals. My father was a lawyer. He, I, and my older brother had intellectual discussions at every dinner. It was competitive. I think what I got from him was a reliance on logic.

When I was growing up, I was even more liberal than my parents. But when I was in college, I became much more conservative. I rebelled against the knee-jerk liberalism on campus.

I think it's largely true that a person with little money is attracted to socialism, and a person with a lot of money is attracted to free market capitalism. I think we gravitate to the political values that are most to our own advantage. I think we adopt values and then spend our lives reinforcing them.

So most of the time, if you want to know where a person's values came from, you just have to look at their situation in life.

This is true. As I age. So do my tendencies. Especially in regards to taxes, savings and education. I feel more conservative in that regard. Red Forman is a favorite character of mine now and I couldn't relate to him as a kid.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I think we're shaped by our entire life experience.  My parents were die-hard liberals.  My father was a lawyer.  He, I, and my older brother had intellectual discussions at every dinner.  It was competitive.  I think what I got from him was a reliance on logic. 

When I was growing up, I was even more liberal than my parents.  But when I was in college, I became much more conservative.  I rebelled against the knee-jerk liberalism on campus. 

I think it's largely true that a person with little money is attracted to socialism, and a person with a lot of money is attracted to free market capitalism.  I think we gravitate to the political values that are most to our own advantage.  I think we adopt values and then spend our lives reinforcing them. 

So most of the time, if you want to know where a person's values came from, you just have to look at their situation in life.

This is true. As I age. So do my tendencies. Especially in regards to taxes, savings and education. I feel more conservative in that regard. Red Forman is a favorite character of mine now and I couldn't relate to him as a kid.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

It's amazing how age and experience change how we view things. At 35 I didn't see things the way I do now at 50. When you're younger, teens and 20s especially, you think you will always be the same person. Unless you have major life happenings, in your 30s you feel a shift but it's not necessarily a huge shift. Just enough to make you think something is slightly different. In your 40s it's picking up and the closer you get to 50 the more things are definitely viewed differently. 

Of course, all of this does depend on how big or small your world is. Me and my husband are as opposite as two people can be when it comes to life experiences. He has always lived in a bubble and I'm the one who has been a lot of places and done a lot if things. He is more close minded than I am but most of it comes from lack of knowledge and experience, not from any kind of prejudice or whatever. He is a lot better than he was 11 years ago when we got married. 

I am realizing too that having more years behind you than ahead of you gives you a different perspective on everything.

Also, we agree on the whole government and political system situation. I haven't trusted them in quite a long time. We are the modern day Rome and when we fall it's going to be ugly. I hope I'm done and dusted by the time it happens. 

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Sorry, didn’t read the entire OP.  Going out on a limb here and saying John never got his but beat by his parents.

Maybe he did and that's why he's so far in the other ditch.

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Tough question. I had good parents that did the best they could. I'm not far removed from destitute poverty on my dad's side. My mom's family was a little better off, but not by much. Both sets of grandparents were self-made, and by that, I mean they made it into middle class and didn't have anything given to them. I learned the basics from my parents: work hard, be responsible, have integrity, be self-sufficient, treat others like you want to be treated. I wouldn't consider them role models, not so much because they weren't good people, but because they weren't really the type of people that questioned much. I often found myself frustrated at "the way it is." I have a natural bend towards integrity and rationalism, but also skepticism and smugness. As an intelligent young man, it was easy to see that everything was not as it was made to seem.

I joined the Marines, which was an interesting experience. This is going to come across as a brag, but it didn't really break me. It tested me, certainly, but it didn't fundamentally change who I was at my core, like some people I know. It really showed me what I could endure, and I think that is a worthwhile mention. I think that confidence plays an important role in opening yourself up to new experiences. Much like Americus, this was my first foray into world travel and culture. This played a role in breaking down some of my innate western biases, opening my eyes, and preparing me for the next 10 years, which is really where my values began to take shape.

I got involved in church around the same time I started college, and both were instrumental in honing my values. College was a fresh take for me. It was the first time I was rewarded for my curiousness and skepticism which had previously been spurned by most authority figures. As a poli-sci major, I was introduced to the humanities. I learned about the philosophies that shaped the enlightenment, and how that led to the formation of the US constitution. I learned about the trials of humanity, and the plight of civilization as we got it wrong time and time again. I enjoyed learning, and I wasn't expected to just repeat talking points. I was encouraged to share my world view so long as it could be substantiated. I was encouraged to research for myself and challenge the status quo. I was allowed to question ideas and traditions. This is where I was most allowed to be myself. I miss it, and it makes me sad that so many kids are missing out on that experience.

Church served a different purpose. It's a place that also has deep thinkers. It's not really a place for people who care about provable ideas, but rather for those who seek out meaning and purpose. It's really my affiliation with the church that caused me to become introspective and self-aware. It really made me see how small I was in the greater scheme of things, and the more I realized I was connected to everyone and everything, the less I tried to use my intelligence to serve myself. Instead, I started looking at how everything was interconnected. Ultimately, I started to have questions about the church and its practices, which ended up with me removing myself from that community as not to cause problems. I still think it's a great place to find community and peace, but there is also the danger of isolation and dogmatism. Regardless, it was instrumental in shaping my values.

Moving on to the "real world" my curiosities and skepticism of traditions once again were rejected. I fought hard against it for years before finally changing my outlook in my 30's. "Me against the world" sounds great for a while, but it's exhausting and futile. This is around the same time I became a teacher, and there was a real benefit to working together with other teachers for the benefit of the youth. Seeing kids struggle is different than watching adults struggle. It's easy to think that people made choices to get where they are, but it's something entirely different when you see it happening to children you care about. This began to create empathy instead of sympathy, which also is a value change.

I think I'm learning to hear people's stories as I get older. I'm mid-40's now. My kids have also softened me and teach me more about myself every day. Marriage too. There are SO many seemingly small and ignorant perceptions I have of the world that keep changing over time.

Honestly, it's very difficult to nail down any one thing that shapes one's values... hell, it might even be difficult to define one's values, but I think the experiences I mentioned probably had the biggest impact in shaping the way I see the world.

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Both parents immigrants to the United States. Mom from Columbia her fathers family was caught in the civil war between religious/political factions he lost something like 12 or 13 of his siblings during the war. They came through Puerto Rico after waiting 10 years to leave Columbia and another 8 to go from Puerto Rico to Florida. My grandfather spent his entire life planning to migrate his family here for a better future. Very traditional conservative family, very religious family, very pro America is the city on the hill family.

My father is family came from Canada specifically New Foundland. His dad was a runaway from an abusive house. After spending his childhood as a fishermen in New Foundland he left to Montreal to follow my grandmother a progressive to college. They both found religion in Montreal and he became a minister. Took up a church in WaWa and worked the mines for money. Was told by the controlling political party he was not going to past the physical because he belonged to the wrong church. After having a metal plate put in his stomach to force them to pass him he looked for ways to come to America. After 5 years was approved for a work visa in Tampa. My dad was born in wawa but only remembers America he was a toddler when they came. His dad's experience with the doctors and church controlling the medical treatments makes him very untrusting of authority. In the 70s Grandpa and Grandma had to break union lines to work in the factories, car was vandalized, house had bricks tossed through windows, Grandma was spit on and assaulted crossing the picket line. They almost went back to New Foundland but stayed when Grandpa got cancer. He died two years before I was born in the 80s. Very anti government family, very religious family, very anti union and anti socialist family.

Needless to say I grew up in a republican house. Hard republican house but more religious and conservative then anything the social issues drive the political values in my house growing up. I didn't even meet a democrats until highschool, I was shocked when this Spanish guy told me he was a Democrat. He said and I quote "my family's poor and Spanish of course I'm democrat". It rocked my world what did he mean? I was poor and my mom was Spanish but I thought democrats where people from a far away land that hated poor people and and religious people. Before going to a public high school I was either homeschooled or went to church schools. Everyone I knew was associated with my father's church.

Today 20-30 years later I'm much more libertarian then republican. Oddly enough my dad is leaning more libertarian as the party moves more towards trump's populism and away from conservatism. My kids are much more exposed to the outside world then I was but I do try and shelter them some. I want them to be loyal to an ideal not a party. Im still evolving in my political beliefs as I learn more and meet new people. My sister just married a very religious black guy from Boston and he is a strong democrat she's an active republican. I love her husband my new brother in law we've really bonded over the last year. I hope eventually he feels comfortable enough we can dig into some of our different experiences and viewpoints. Right now we keep it very superficial he relocated down here to marry her so our only goal is to make him feel accepted and loved.

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This is true. As I age. So do my tendencies. Especially in regards to taxes, savings and education. I feel more conservative in that regard. Red Forman is a favorite character of mine now and I couldn't relate to him as a kid.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

It's amazing how age and experience change how we view things. At 35 I didn't see things the way I do now at 50. When you're younger, teens and 20s especially, you think you will always be the same person. Unless you have major life happenings, in your 30s you feel a shift but it's not necessarily a huge shift. Just enough to make you think something is slightly different. In your 40s it's picking up and the closer you get to 50 the more things are definitely viewed differently. 

Of course, all of this does depend on how big or small your world is. Me and my husband are as opposite as two people can be when it comes to life experiences. He has always lived in a bubble and I'm the one who has been a lot of places and done a lot if things. He is more close minded than I am but most of it comes from lack of knowledge and experience, not from any kind of prejudice or whatever. He is a lot better than he was 11 years ago when we got married. 

I am realizing too that having more years behind you than ahead of you gives you a different perspective on everything.

Also, we agree on the whole government and political system situation. I haven't trusted them in quite a long time. We are the modern day Rome and when we fall it's going to be ugly. I hope I'm done and dusted by the time it happens. 

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Sorry, didn’t read the entire OP.  Going out on a limb here and saying John never got his but beat by his parents.

Maybe he did and that's why he's so far in the other ditch.

It's encouraging to read that perspectives change through middle age.  I'm almost 40 and I've felt stagnant.   It's good to hear that likely isn't actually the case.

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Both parents immigrants to the United States. Mom from Columbia her fathers family was caught in the civil war between religious/political factions he lost something like 12 or 13 of his siblings during the war. They came through Puerto Rico after waiting 10 years to leave Columbia and another 8 to go from Puerto Rico to Florida. My grandfather spent his entire life planning to migrate his family here for a better future. Very traditional conservative family, very religious family, very pro America is the city on the hill family.

My father is family came from Canada specifically New Foundland. His dad was a runaway from an abusive house. After spending his childhood as a fishermen in New Foundland he left to Montreal to follow my grandmother a progressive to college. They both found religion in Montreal and he became a minister. Took up a church in WaWa and worked the mines for money. Was told by the controlling political party he was not going to past the physical because he belonged to the wrong church. After having a metal plate put in his stomach to force them to pass him he looked for ways to come to America. After 5 years was approved for a work visa in Tampa. My dad was born in wawa but only remembers America he was a toddler when they came. His dad's experience with the doctors and church controlling the medical treatments makes him very untrusting of authority. In the 70s Grandpa and Grandma had to break union lines to work in the factories, car was vandalized, house had bricks tossed through windows, Grandma was spit on and assaulted crossing the picket line. They almost went back to New Foundland but stayed when Grandpa got cancer. He died two years before I was born in the 80s. Very anti government family, very religious family, very anti union and anti socialist family.

Needless to say I grew up in a republican house. Hard republican house but more religious and conservative then anything the social issues drive the political values in my house growing up. I didn't even meet a democrats until highschool, I was shocked when this Spanish guy told me he was a Democrat. He said and I quote "my family's poor and Spanish of course I'm democrat". It rocked my world what did he mean? I was poor and my mom was Spanish but I thought democrats where people from a far away land that hated poor people and and religious people. Before going to a public high school I was either homeschooled or went to church schools. Everyone I knew was associated with my father's church.

Today 20-30 years later I'm much more libertarian then republican. Oddly enough my dad is leaning more libertarian as the party moves more towards trump's populism and away from conservatism. My kids are much more exposed to the outside world then I was but I do try and shelter them some. I want them to be loyal to an ideal not a party. Im still evolving in my political beliefs as I learn more and meet new people. My sister just married a very religious black guy from Boston and he is a strong democrat she's an active republican. I love her husband my new brother in law we've really bonded over the last year. I hope eventually he feels comfortable enough we can dig into some of our different experiences and viewpoints. Right now we keep it very superficial he relocated down here to marry her so our only goal is to make him feel accepted and loved.

It's interesting that your whole family came to identify with a Reagan Republican worldview after unions and majority religions both screwed y'all over in different ways.  Yet now America is a place where neither Republicans nor Democrats will do unions any favors, and few people really care what religion you are anymore.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Great question Americus and I loved it since you posted it but wanted to wait until I replied to give it the proper respect it deserves.

Without a doubt our parents give us the foundation whether we follow in their footsteps or deviate180 degrees away. My dad is a self proclaimed war mongering capitalist and a 20 year Marine Corps veteran. As such I attended base schools until the 5th grade when my dad was transferred to Okinawa Japan on a single billet which meant his family could not come along. That also meant that my mom, my sister and myself were essentially evicted out of our home while my dad was sent away for a year and had to live in town and attend public schools. Food for thought for all of you non military brats, my neighbors in “our” court including my family were 3 African American families, 2 Puerto Rican families, 2 Caucasian families and on 1 Philippino family. This was crew, my Sand Lot so to speak. We didn’t know what race was, the only color we did understand was Marine Corps Green.
Transition that to moving into town. It was the mid 70’s so racial tensions were high. Whites and blacks only commingled on sports field, talk about a shock. I was exposed to 2 very distinct realities at a very young age. The point being I learned discipline while dad served our country.

When my dad retired he moved us to SE Ohio to fulfill his lifelong dream and become a farmer. If you know anything about farming you know that self reliance and problem solving are paramount to success. You also learn to love and respect the land you live in. Protecting and respecting the environment is a daily responsibility. Despite some environmentalists claims, farmers don’t intentionally poison the water supplies because their livestock drink that same water as well as the game you hunt and the fish you catch.

I played football in HS and ran track. There I learned the value of teamwork.

Upon graduation I went to college. I didn’t like it. The academic portion was okay, getting shouted down by people that have never accomplished anything for having a different point of view was off putting. Ironically the worst offenders were the same ones preaching about having an open mind, go figure. After several incidents of having my point of view being outright dismissed for being a dumb hick I dropped out to join the Navy. There I learned a trade and leadership.

To summarize, my views and political beliefs have been shaped by every step I have taken in life. From discipline, to self reliance, understanding that people are the same based on the environment they are in, to teamwork and questioning motives of people in power. I am simply a product of my life experiences.

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Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

Thanks guys! I haven't abandoned ship, just got super busy. I really do like to learn these things because I believe they help me to understand people better.

Gotta go for now. Busy!

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My Grandpa was the smartest man I knew;how he lived his life is how I try to live mine.

In what way?

He respected other people regardless of their race, religion, or creed; volunteered his time to help those less fortunate than him, understood that people go through bad spells and to not let them totally ruin their friendship with you, treat women like they are supposed to be treated, take each day as a gift, etc.

Was a great man.

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#Jags4Life

Tar Heel Jags Fan

My Grandpa was the smartest man I knew;how he lived his life is how I try to live mine.

Dude, your Username is Butters and you have a SouthPark pic of Butters as your avatar.  Who the [BLEEP] was your Grandpa, Eric Cartman? 

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A lot of good posts here. A lot of digging in to identity as well as values.
They are formed at the same time. But some people end up with values that contradict their identity. For instance, a man who never had to work with his hands may say he values hard physical labor. Fortunately none of us seem to be in that category.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Y'all don't sprain your arms patting yourselves on the back.

A lot of this reads like, "This is how I came to be so great."

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What a weird take, Marty.

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