Zuckerberg and the FBi. And Hillary. And the media. And Peter Strok and his mistress. And Christopher Steele.

Lying to influence voters
Vs
Literally falsifying what the ballots from voters say

I'm L2L and I can't tell the difference between these things!

No you’re Mikesez and don’t realize both should be prosecuted.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I'm Mikey, and I don't care how the system is abuse unless I'm told to care.

---

Lying to influence voters
Vs
Literally falsifying what the ballots from voters say

I'm L2L and I can't tell the difference between these things!

No you’re Mikesez and don’t realize both should be prosecuted.

Trump lied to get elected in 2016.  So did pretty much everybody running for any office in 2016 or 2020.

How do you think this should work? Some ministry of truth prosecutes any candidate who says any kind of lie?

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

He's not even trying to understand the scope of his ignorance.

---

He's not even trying to understand the scope of his ignorance.

You're not even trying to understand the difference between lying about your opponent in an election and miscounting the votes in the election.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Great Trump interview on Letterman from years ago..

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/...M6jDA&s=19

---

He opens his mouth.
Lies spill out of it.
Wash, rinse and repeat...


https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/1680...36448?s=20

---

Something I’ve wondered, why is Pence such a persona non grata in the GOP? Is it all related to his relationship with Trump?

He seems to be closer to being a true Republican conservative than Trump or Desantis. As an independent, I could be convinced to vote for him even though I have some fundamental disagreements with a couple of his policy positions. Why is his support so low among Republicans?

---

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Something I’ve wondered, why is Pence such a persona non grata in the GOP? Is it all related to his relationship with Trump?

He seems to be closer to being a true Republican conservative than Trump or Desantis. As an independent, I could be convinced to vote for him even though I have some fundamental disagreements with a couple of his policy positions. Why is his support so low among Republicans?

He’s a little milquetoast for most Republicans. Politics is no longer about debate and compromise. It’s a cage match now.

---

Something I’ve wondered, why is Pence such a persona non grata in the GOP? Is it all related to his relationship with Trump?

He seems to be closer to being a true Republican conservative than Trump or Desantis. As an independent, I could be convinced to vote for him even though I have some fundamental disagreements with a couple of his policy positions. Why is his support so low among Republicans?

He’s a little milquetoast for most Republicans. Politics is no longer about debate and compromise. It’s a cage match now.

But the constitution doesn't let anything get done in the style of a cage match unless, you can get an 2/3 of Congress and 3/4 of state legislatures to agree and change it.

People who want it to be a cage match are either (1) hostile to the constitution or (2) ignorant of it, or maybe they (3) really actually want nothing new to be enacted.

3 is the hardest to believe.  The fighting words they continually use, say they want a bunch of new policies enacted.  They say they want a lot to change.

2 is probable, but anyone inclined to deep dive these internet debates is more informed than most, you would hope.

Which leaves 1.  If 1 is true, you only believe in the constitution when it gives you what you want, and you only believe in elections when your guy wins.  

Which is it?

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I think we all can agree that Trump took Pence along for the ride to try to secure the Christian vote.. It's not all uncommon.

---

Something I’ve wondered, why is Pence such a persona non grata in the GOP? Is it all related to his relationship with Trump?

He seems to be closer to being a true Republican conservative than Trump or Desantis. As an independent, I could be convinced to vote for him even though I have some fundamental disagreements with a couple of his policy positions. Why is his support so low among Republicans?

He’s a little milquetoast for most Republicans. Politics is no longer about debate and compromise. It’s a cage match now.

So it’s a personality thing. I would like to see a primary and a race where a discussion of the issues mattered more but I guess it’s not likely.

---

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Do any Trump supporters here feel like he’s a traditional conservative? I'm not trying to make a point, I’m just honestly curious how his supporters view him. My brother’s a supporter, and when I asked him this question, he replied that he has the qualities of a traditional conservative without the baggage. Asking him to explain what that meant though went off into some odd tangents.

---

I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

He’s a little milquetoast for most Republicans. Politics is no longer about debate and compromise. It’s a cage match now.

So it’s a personality thing. I would like to see a primary and a race where a discussion of the issues mattered more but I guess it’s not likely.

There's little material difference between the two parties, so discussion of the issues isn't really relevant. It's more about which old guy's benefactors do you want to get preference when the politicians screw the People.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Do any Trump supporters here feel like he’s a traditional conservative? I'm not trying to make a point, I’m just honestly curious how his supporters view him. My brother’s a supporter, and when I asked him this question, he replied that he has the qualities of a traditional conservative without the baggage. Asking him to explain what that meant though went off into some odd tangents.

He's not a traditional conservative, he's a New York Moderate. That makes him too left for me personally but he's practically Hitler to the New York Left. Most of his supporters are on his side because they view him as a radical who is working outside of the conventional norms with which they are done.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Do any Trump supporters here feel like he’s a traditional conservative? I'm not trying to make a point, I’m just honestly curious how his supporters view him. My brother’s a supporter, and when I asked him this question, he replied that he has the qualities of a traditional conservative without the baggage. Asking him to explain what that meant though went off into some odd tangents.

Winger touched on it and it's a quality that I believe steers him away from many conservatives. The religious dogma completely turns me off. There's a stereotype out there which labels anyone who votes Republican as a bible thumper, which used to be true a couple of generations ago. Now, not so much. It's a handy quality to have for a Vice Presidential candidate in order to button up the religious right vote, but an increasing percentage don't want someone in office who proclaims religious text as a moral guide and standard. His qualities as a conservative are a little too traditional. Plus, he's dull. He's not cage match material.

---

Do any Trump supporters here feel like he’s a traditional conservative? I'm not trying to make a point, I’m just honestly curious how his supporters view him. My brother’s a supporter, and when I asked him this question, he replied that he has the qualities of a traditional conservative without the baggage. Asking him to explain what that meant though went off into some odd tangents.

I don't think any Trump supporters think Trump is a conservative. In fact, I'd say he radically changed what "conservatism" is in this country. Conservatives have traditionally been fighting against the expansion of the federal government. They lost that battle, and Trump, imo, is their last attempt to push back against the system that is now attempting to upend their values and traditions. He has become the physical embodiment of standing up to the powers that be. It's why he can be attacked by every institution and large group of people still embrace him. It's not about Trump's values as much as it is about a call for the government to stop telling them what to do.

---

Do any Trump supporters here feel like he’s a traditional conservative? I'm not trying to make a point, I’m just honestly curious how his supporters view him. My brother’s a supporter, and when I asked him this question, he replied that he has the qualities of a traditional conservative without the baggage. Asking him to explain what that meant though went off into some odd tangents.

He's not a traditional conservative, he's a New York Moderate. That makes him too left for me personally but he's practically Hitler to the New York Left. Most of his supporters are on his side because they view him as a radical who is working outside of the conventional norms with which they are done.

I thought he was asking what Trump voters think of Pence. If not, he has my answer for it.

As for Trump, he is not a traditional conservative in the sense that many regard traditional conservatism. The right likes him for the same reasons the left hate him.

---

He's not a traditional conservative, he's a New York Moderate. That makes him too left for me personally but he's practically Hitler to the New York Left. Most of his supporters are on his side because they view him as a radical who is working outside of the conventional norms with which they are done.

I thought he was asking what Trump voters think of Pence. If not, he has my answer for it.

Sorry, I misread the question. Pence has the worst characteristic a politician can have; he's just dull.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I thought he was asking what Trump voters think of Pence. If not, he has my answer for it.

Sorry, I misread the question. Pence has the worst characteristic a politician can have; he's just dull.

I'm not sure which he was asking.

C'mon, MJ! Up your question game!

---