You want prosecutors to disclose hour by hour logs of every lead they investigate?
You want anything presented to a grand jury to become public, even if the grand jury doesn't vote to indict?

I'm saying it seems like predators are being protected. And the only way to assure that this isn't the case, is transparency.

We don't throw away 4 centuries of practice in criminal law because irresponsible, charismatic, and ambitious men have hunches.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I'm saying it seems like predators are being protected. And the only way to assure that this isn't the case, is transparency.

We don't throw away 4 centuries of practice in criminal law because irresponsible, charismatic, and ambitious men have hunches.

And apparently the funeral for this topic was held and the topic was buried without incident.

I guess if you bury the story, it's supposed to go away.

---

We don't throw away 4 centuries of practice in criminal law because irresponsible, charismatic, and ambitious men have hunches.

And apparently the funeral for this topic was held and the topic was buried without incident.

I guess if you bury the story, it's supposed to go away.

Reality is not a movie or a TV show.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

And apparently the funeral for this topic was held and the topic was buried without incident.

I guess if you bury the story, it's supposed to go away.

Reality is not a movie or a TV show.

But I guess ignoring the problem is par the course for the criminals supporters.

---

What's really disturbing is the libby's thinking. Their identity politics is really a breeding ground for segregation and hatred. Their critical thinking has collapsed, leaving them to vote with hurt feelings instead of common sense. Obviously pedophilia is now a protected sexuality to them and almost no longer a taboo in their circles of disgustingness. You figure that would be a deal breaker for the common dem/lib voter, but I see that as a no-go.. Maybe if Trump would quit draggin his bits and pieces across their foreheads while they sleep, they wouldn't be so fragile..

The bolded is astoundingly false, and a clear example of a conservative voter falling prey to hateful rhetoric and/or conspiracy theory - and simply believing it as truth. 

This is how the wackos referenced in the OP are initially spawned. Acceptance of outlandish falsehoods.

If you look where that's coming from though? It tends to be from the bleeding blue states, cities and counties. Look at that odd thing going on right now with AMC having "technical issues" with that movie regarding the Sound of Freedom. That's odd. You don't need to believe in anything now when you can find countless videos of this online, in public speaking forums, with interviews and parents genuinely concerned about certain groups getting within their school system. Goes back to that drag queen that was a registered sex offender being able to sit down and read books to kids. 

Speaking of wackos, you speak of it being on the far right, was the last shooter at that religious school not carried about a transgendered person? 

Will reiterate. I do not lean left. I do not lean right. I tend to stand front and center on most issues here. With that said, I don't want to get lumped in with either side of the field. Both sides are guilty of spewing hateful rhetoric and being staunch in their [BLEEP] up beliefs. My line in the sand starts with children. It's all cyclical. An abused child today is a broken man, woman or gender confused person down the road (potentially, I know not all victims grow up to be abusers themselves, myself included), but, it is a pattern.

---

Why would you say it's astoundingly false? I concede that it's not widely accepted among democrats, but it's also only accepted by democrats. Imo, too many people on the left bury their heads in the sands with regards to their party's worst attributes, which gives a voice to the most radicals. 

You post about the right, but you are oblivious (or at least come across that way), to the damage that is coming from the left. You can't have a healthy examination of right-wing violence without also looking at the violence that is rampant and ignored on the left. One begets the other.

It really doesn't beget anything, and I've made clear reference to the counterpart.

This notion of one begetting the other anytime a misstep by someone on the right is pointed out in this forum is sad. 
Instead of actually addressing the point it's always:
"But her emails!!" 
"But Biden did something similar!!" 
"But, but, but but..... whatever" 

If you are unable to discuss a clearly described issue facing the citizens of our great nation without having to attempt in countering it with something equally despicable - you are immediately disingenuous in your response to the initial topic. 

OP: I think there are some bad things happening. Many of the bad things I see and describe in this post are coming from right wing extremists. We need to consider how we fuel the fire of these extremists.

Response: BUT there are left wing extremists too!!!!!!!!

OP: Right, but can we talk about the ones I'm talking about for a second? 

Response: The left are all pedophiles!!!! 

It's not a [BLEEP] contest. 
It's a problem. 
One that I believe is going to get a lot of people killed sooner or later.
Sorry we apparently can't talk about it.

I agree with this. And it's done this way by design, almost in every country that has multiple parties involved. Everybody drinks the kool aid from whatever watering hole they find most attractive or they swallow that lunch meat up with the 6 O'clock news or late night news. 

I think it's going to be an uphill battle forever until we turn this system upside down and demand reformation. Money has to be removed from it for starters. I am willing to talk, debate and pinball ideas back and forth with anybody on here as respectfully as possible. Regardless of your views. 

We're heading for a full on meltdown at this point as a society if things do not stop or change soon. Feels like a runaway train with no brakes.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I will admit I didn't read your whole post. I was just skimming through out of habit (even though I have lost interest in some of the arguments here), picked up the sentiment of your post and Winger's reaction, and threw in my two cents. I apologize. I think it's a conversation worth having. The current climate only focuses on the right because it almost ALWAYS focuses on the right, but I disagree that it's more prevalent... it's just being brought to the forefront more often. The left has the power to do that. 

I particularly agree with the bolded part, which is why I say it begets one another. The radicals on the left cause violence. The left-wing media makes excuses for it, while the right-wing media denounces it. The right sees the left as getting away with violence, which produces radicals, and they reciprocate. The left-wing media denounces it, but the right-wing media turns a blind eye. The radicals on the left see the right as escalating violence, which creates more radicals that reciprocate it. It definitely begets one another. It just frustrates me that we are having this conversation now, even though I have been warning of this for years. 

Your entire premise is disingenuous.  There is a plethora of examples of leftist extremism inciting violence yet you chose to pose the question giving only examples of right wing extremism.  If you truly wanted an honest discussion on the matter you would have offered up the BLM movement burning down the very businesses that support predominantly black neighborhoods as a counter balance.  If you actually wanted an honest conversation you wouldn’t have given the leftist extremism a pass.  Your agenda is dripping from how you posed the question, don’t act like you are surprised with the initial response you received.  Had Winger asked the same question posed from the other side in the exact manner you’d have responded the same way.

---

Thanks to both of you for thoughtful responses.

I did make note of the left wing extremists and attempted simply to focus on the current threat from those on the right as these things tend to ebb and flow with election cycles  - and right now - the extremists on the right believe they have more to be mad about. 

Here is a non-partisan brief that outlines some of the ebb and flow of right vs left extremists acting out in response to elections, policy and current events. There is a lot of good unbiased info there. 

https://www.csis.org/analysis/escalating...ted-states

Again - the point I'm making is about how we have normalized outrageous propaganda that foments violence and I feel this trend will boil over with dire consequence in a way we haven't experienced in modern American history.

The question should be "Why?" that is though. Why is the media enabling it? Why are the politicians with these fringe ideas getting the spotlight? Why do we feel that we have a party of Vampires and Predators running the show? Why are we so divided? Why are we looking towards violence as the solution? 

Is it REALLY all propaganda? Or, could there just be some truth in this? Society and events around the world, not just here, everywhere, it just seems to get weirder and weirder by the day.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

As I’ve said before, technology is why we’re so divided now . The physical safety of social media means people no longer have to encounter the people they attack. There was a time not long ago when a person called someone a pedophile or a Nazi, they were subject to an [BLEEP] whoopin’. Now everyone can sit in the comfort of their home, or anywhere, and say the most vile things about others with no proof of their assertions or risk to their safety.

We now live in the age of cowardice and unaccountability.

---

As I’ve said before, technology is why we’re so divided now . The physical safety of social media means people no longer have to encounter the people they attack. There was a time not long ago when a person called someone a pedophile or a Nazi, they were subject to an [BLEEP] whoopin’. Now everyone can sit in the comfort of their home, or anywhere, and say the most vile things about others with no proof of their assertions or risk to their safety.

We now live in the age of cowardice and unaccountability.

I agree with all that, but it's also the splintering of the news media into so many pieces that people can choose whatever worldview suits them.  Then that's what they absorb and they have no understanding of what other people are seeing who have a different worldview.

---

As I’ve said before, technology is why we’re so divided now . The physical safety of social media means people no longer have to encounter the people they attack. There was a time not long ago when a person called someone a pedophile or a Nazi, they were subject to an [BLEEP] whoopin’. Now everyone can sit in the comfort of their home, or anywhere, and say the most vile things about others with no proof of their assertions or risk to their safety.

We now live in the age of cowardice and unaccountability.

Cancel Culture has also been spawned from this. People's lives can be ruined within seconds of a random post or accusation with little to no supporting facts or evidence. Happens all the time. Then, people wonder why some people snap and go berserk and start shooting up random establishments or killing people. 

It's a concrete jungle at the end of the day. Everybody is living in their little digitalized treehouses and when it's finally time to come down and get in the thick of it they can't seem to function properly anymore. Massive, massive cabin fever [BLEEP] going on now. Especially post covid and covid lockdowns. 

This is why I think it's crucial we change our approach with these children coming up now in the education system. Adopt some of the customs Japan has adopted for their school system with their youths before throwing the books and grindstone mentality at them. Basic, fundamental manners, politeness, respect, helping, cleaning, etc. 

All of that needs to be instilled at home from the parents and then reinforced by the school system. Technology has it's dark side, for sure. I agree with you. We're becoming less human. Confined to the wheel of pain, to be made as thralls.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

As I’ve said before, technology is why we’re so divided now . The physical safety of social media means people no longer have to encounter the people they attack. There was a time not long ago when a person called someone a pedophile or a Nazi, they were subject to an [BLEEP] whoopin’. Now everyone can sit in the comfort of their home, or anywhere, and say the most vile things about others with no proof of their assertions or risk to their safety.

We now live in the age of cowardice and unaccountability.

I agree with all that, but it's also the splintering of the news media into so many pieces that people can choose whatever worldview suits them.  Then that's what they absorb and they have no understanding of what other people are seeing who have a different worldview.

Yes, this as well. Journalism is becoming a vanishing art. 

I sometimes wonder if a small scale uprising (for lack of a better term) needs to occur to remind people just how fragile our society really is and the value of empathy and magnanimity.

---

I agree with all that, but it's also the splintering of the news media into so many pieces that people can choose whatever worldview suits them.  Then that's what they absorb and they have no understanding of what other people are seeing who have a different worldview.

Yes, this as well. Journalism is becoming a vanishing art. 

I sometimes wonder if a small scale uprising (for lack of a better term) needs to occur to remind people just how fragile our society really is and the value of empathy and magnanimity.

You would have thought January 6th of 2020 would have been enough. It wasn't apparently. I guess we'll have to wait on a conservative to get voted in next year and the Capitol Building gets attacked by Sam Smith types dressed up like Satan throwing rainbow colored sex toys at everybody before the powder keg finally explodes.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Yes, this as well. Journalism is becoming a vanishing art. 

I sometimes wonder if a small scale uprising (for lack of a better term) needs to occur to remind people just how fragile our society really is and the value of empathy and magnanimity.

You would have thought January 6th of 2020 would have been enough. It wasn't apparently. I guess we'll have to wait on a conservative to get voted in next year and the Capitol Building gets attacked by Sam Smith types dressed up like Satan throwing rainbow colored sex toys at everybody before the powder keg finally explodes.

I don’t advocate violence in any way. But the absence of the threat of personal violence has turned people into spiteful venomous snakes. What this signifies is at our core, humans are still barely evolved animals.

---

You would have thought January 6th of 2020 would have been enough. It wasn't apparently. I guess we'll have to wait on a conservative to get voted in next year and the Capitol Building gets attacked by Sam Smith types dressed up like Satan throwing rainbow colored sex toys at everybody before the powder keg finally explodes.

I don’t advocate violence in any way. But the absence of the threat of personal violence has turned people into spiteful venomous snakes. What this signifies is at our core, humans are still barely evolved animals.

Yeah. It's a game of give and take. I agree with this. We went from debts and insults being settled with duels by sword and flintlock pistols to media and social media mob shaming. I think violence is in our core. It drove our survival instincts for years. Fight or flight. Adapt or die. Sink or swim. 

We have become too comfortable and too cozy now as a species. That's why it's heavily populated now and why people are pushing for things to slow down. Standard of living is too good now for most people. We've overdue for a reset. This is by far, my favorite meme I have seen in years. 

I say it a lot on here and around my family. Humans are creatures of habit. Everything is cyclical. Rinse and repeat. We always look back in history books and dub specific civilizations and empires "great", yet, those great moments in our history always come to an end at some point. What most people don't like to remember or accept, is that, often times? Those moments in our history were birthed and laid to rest via, what? Violence, Slavery, Bloodshed and piles upon piles of death and destruction. There can be no progress without pain.

Sometimes in order to move forward? We must deconstruct and throw our inhibitions aside.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

As I’ve said before, technology is why we’re so divided now . The physical safety of social media means people no longer have to encounter the people they attack. There was a time not long ago when a person called someone a pedophile or a Nazi, they were subject to an [BLEEP] whoopin’. Now everyone can sit in the comfort of their home, or anywhere, and say the most vile things about others with no proof of their assertions or risk to their safety.

We now live in the age of cowardice and unaccountability.

Exactly.
And it escalates.  You used to get an [BLEEP] whooping for making any racially charged insult.  Then those became acceptable and even considered funny online.  Then anyone you disagree with is not just racist but a full blown nazi.  Then nazi or commie isn't enough anymore and they're all pedophiles or lizards or vampires as Caldrac mentioned.

---

I don’t advocate violence in any way. But the absence of the threat of personal violence has turned people into spiteful venomous snakes. What this signifies is at our core, humans are still barely evolved animals.

Yeah. It's a game of give and take. I agree with this. We went from debts and insults being settled with duels by sword and flintlock pistols to media and social media mob shaming. I think violence is in our core. It drove our survival instincts for years. Fight or flight. Adapt or die. Sink or swim. 

We have become too comfortable and too cozy now as a species. That's why it's heavily populated now and why people are pushing for things to slow down. Standard of living is too good now for most people. We've overdue for a reset. This is by far, my favorite meme I have seen in years. 

I say it a lot on here and around my family. Humans are creatures of habit. Everything is cyclical. Rinse and repeat. We always look back in history books and dub specific civilizations and empires "great", yet, those great moments in our history always come to an end at some point. What most people don't like to remember or accept, is that, often times? Those moments in our history were birthed and laid to rest via, what? Violence, Slavery, Bloodshed and piles upon piles of death and destruction. There can be no progress without pain.

Sometimes in order to move forward? We must deconstruct and throw our inhibitions aside.

Yup.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

The bolded is astoundingly false, and a clear example of a conservative voter falling prey to hateful rhetoric and/or conspiracy theory - and simply believing it as truth. 

This is how the wackos referenced in the OP are initially spawned. Acceptance of outlandish falsehoods.

If you look where that's coming from though? It tends to be from the bleeding blue states, cities and counties. Look at that odd thing going on right now with AMC having "technical issues" with that movie regarding the Sound of Freedom. That's odd. You don't need to believe in anything now when you can find countless videos of this online, in public speaking forums, with interviews and parents genuinely concerned about certain groups getting within their school system. Goes back to that drag queen that was a registered sex offender being able to sit down and read books to kids. 

Speaking of wackos, you speak of it being on the far right, was the last shooter at that religious school not carried about a transgendered person? 

Will reiterate. I do not lean left. I do not lean right. I tend to stand front and center on most issues here. With that said, I don't want to get lumped in with either side of the field. Both sides are guilty of spewing hateful rhetoric and being staunch in their [BLEEP] up beliefs. My line in the sand starts with children. It's all cyclical. An abused child today is a broken man, woman or gender confused person down the road (potentially, I know not all victims grow up to be abusers themselves, myself included), but, it is a pattern.

---

It really doesn't beget anything, and I've made clear reference to the counterpart.

This notion of one begetting the other anytime a misstep by someone on the right is pointed out in this forum is sad. 
Instead of actually addressing the point it's always:
"But her emails!!" 
"But Biden did something similar!!" 
"But, but, but but..... whatever" 

If you are unable to discuss a clearly described issue facing the citizens of our great nation without having to attempt in countering it with something equally despicable - you are immediately disingenuous in your response to the initial topic. 

OP: I think there are some bad things happening. Many of the bad things I see and describe in this post are coming from right wing extremists. We need to consider how we fuel the fire of these extremists.

Response: BUT there are left wing extremists too!!!!!!!!

OP: Right, but can we talk about the ones I'm talking about for a second? 

Response: The left are all pedophiles!!!! 

It's not a [BLEEP] contest. 
It's a problem. 
One that I believe is going to get a lot of people killed sooner or later.
Sorry we apparently can't talk about it.

I agree with this. And it's done this way by design, almost in every country that has multiple parties involved. Everybody drinks the kool aid from whatever watering hole they find most attractive or they swallow that lunch meat up with the 6 O'clock news or late night news. 

I think it's going to be an uphill battle forever until we turn this system upside down and demand reformation. Money has to be removed from it for starters. I am willing to talk, debate and pinball ideas back and forth with anybody on here as respectfully as possible. Regardless of your views. 

We're heading for a full on meltdown at this point as a society if things do not stop or change soon. Feels like a runaway train with no brakes.

1) it is impossible to remove money from politics.  Every possible earthly system will have rich people who are motivated to preserve their wealth by patronizing politicians, whether that is legal or not.

2) Americans have been trying to reduce the role of big money by recruiting more small money donors, people like us.  We've also reduced and (in the case of Republicans) almost eliminated the ability of candidates to get a nomination without a primary contest.  Party elites have very little power anymore.  The smoke filled room is gone.  Long gone. Yet polarization *increased* after this.  It did not decrease.  Further attempts to reduce the role of big money may satisfy certain definitions of reducing corruption, but are likely to increase strife and greatly reduce politeness in the meantime.

3) only one reform is out there that is proven to reduce polarization in an existing democracy.  It is ranked choice voting.  If you look at what it has done in Northern Ireland it is remarkable.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

As I’ve said before, technology is why we’re so divided now . The physical safety of social media means people no longer have to encounter the people they attack. There was a time not long ago when a person called someone a pedophile or a Nazi, they were subject to an [BLEEP] whoopin’. Now everyone can sit in the comfort of their home, or anywhere, and say the most vile things about others with no proof of their assertions or risk to their safety.

We now live in the age of cowardice and unaccountability.

I agree with all that, but it's also the splintering of the news media into so many pieces that people can choose whatever worldview suits them.  Then that's what they absorb and they have no understanding of what other people are seeing who have a different worldview.

I put this all on us consumers because we do not demand better.  We as a society have grown so soft we no longer want our ideals challenged.  I hate it personally.  When this channel was started we had lively debates and an honest exchange of ideas.  Since 2016 and the unexpected defeat of Hillary and the election of Trump something overtly changed.  Though in retrospect if we were being totally honest the genesis of this overt division started with the election of Obama.  It was an historic occasion and every American should have been proud at how far we had come, many of us were.  The problem as I saw it was that every time I disagreed with a policy he proposed I was insulted and instantly labeled a racist.  The media perpetuated this ideal, which lead to Trump, which lead to Biden and here we are.  Divided, angry and no longer willing to compromise or consider alternative ideas.

---

Original Season Ticket Holder - Retired  1995 - 2020


At some point you just have to let go of what you thought should happen and live in what is happening.
 

I think my hatred for the dems and libs started with Pelosi.. Telling us all that we needed to Pass the Healthcare reform bill before we could see what's in it.. Everything from that, to "You have to prove your innocence in court", instead of the court proving that you committed a crime..

Now, my only concern is that I won't have enough urine in my bladder to piss on all of their graves when they die.. But it'll be fun trying..

---

I agree with all that, but it's also the splintering of the news media into so many pieces that people can choose whatever worldview suits them.  Then that's what they absorb and they have no understanding of what other people are seeing who have a different worldview.

I put this all on us consumers because we do not demand better.  We as a society have grown so soft we no longer want our ideals challenged.  I hate it personally.  When this channel was started we had lively debates and an honest exchange of ideas.  Since 2016 and the unexpected defeat of Hillary and the election of Trump something overtly changed.  Though in retrospect if we were being totally honest the genesis of this overt division started with the election of Obama.  It was an historic occasion and every American should have been proud at how far we had come, many of us were.  The problem as I saw it was that every time I disagreed with a policy he proposed I was insulted and instantly labeled a racist.  The media perpetuated this ideal, which lead to Trump, which lead to Biden and here we are.  Divided, angry and no longer willing to compromise or consider alternative ideas.

You're mostly right.  I got kind of accused of racism those years too.  Didn't bother me, but it really got to a lot of people.  The elites were also bothered by how Obama did business.  He always started out from the "I'm already giving you everything I ever want to give" negotiating position, which fed the problem you mentioned.

Biden is marginally better in this regard because he does a better job keeping his mouth shut.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

I put this all on us consumers because we do not demand better.  We as a society have grown so soft we no longer want our ideals challenged.  I hate it personally.  When this channel was started we had lively debates and an honest exchange of ideas.  Since 2016 and the unexpected defeat of Hillary and the election of Trump something overtly changed.  Though in retrospect if we were being totally honest the genesis of this overt division started with the election of Obama.  It was an historic occasion and every American should have been proud at how far we had come, many of us were.  The problem as I saw it was that every time I disagreed with a policy he proposed I was insulted and instantly labeled a racist.  The media perpetuated this ideal, which lead to Trump, which lead to Biden and here we are.  Divided, angry and no longer willing to compromise or consider alternative ideas.

You're mostly right.  I got kind of accused of racism those years too.  Didn't bother me, but it really got to a lot of people.  The elites were also bothered by how Obama did business.  He always started out from the "I'm already giving you everything I ever want to give" negotiating position, which fed the problem you mentioned.

Biden is marginally better in this regard because he does a better job keeping his mouth shut.

The elites converted to the democratic party in waves under Obama. I think it's what caused the disfunction in the democratic party. There are the believers and the opportunists. Obama was the worst thing that ever happened to this country, not because he was overtly bad (and his policies were bad), but because I believe a different type of government-corporate merger formed. 

Also, I don't blame social media for the problem.

---

You're mostly right.  I got kind of accused of racism those years too.  Didn't bother me, but it really got to a lot of people.  The elites were also bothered by how Obama did business.  He always started out from the "I'm already giving you everything I ever want to give" negotiating position, which fed the problem you mentioned.

Biden is marginally better in this regard because he does a better job keeping his mouth shut.

The elites converted to the democratic party in waves under Obama. I think it's what caused the disfunction in the democratic party. There are the believers and the opportunists. Obama was the worst thing that ever happened to this country, not because he was overtly bad (and his policies were bad), but because I believe a different type of government-corporate merger formed. 

Also, I don't blame social media for the problem.

When I said elite I was referring to pundits and campaign managers and full time politicians. Those people were in two parties before Obama, and they remained in two parties,  just with more animosity.

You're referring more to influencers in the economy and media though and you're not wrong.

---

My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.