As I’ve said before, technology is why we’re so divided now . The physical safety of social media means people no longer have to encounter the people they attack. There was a time not long ago when a person called someone a pedophile or a Nazi, they were subject to an [BLEEP] whoopin’. Now everyone can sit in the comfort of their home, or anywhere, and say the most vile things about others with no proof of their assertions or risk to their safety.

We now live in the age of cowardice and unaccountability.

I agree with all that, but it's also the splintering of the news opinion media into so many pieces that people can choose whatever worldview suits them.  Then that's what they absorb and they have no understanding of what other people are seeing who have a different worldview.

Fixed that for you. We all know most 'news' these days is opinion, not fact, and is why things have gone to [BLEEP] just as you described.

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I agree with all that, but it's also the splintering of the news opinion media into so many pieces that people can choose whatever worldview suits them.  Then that's what they absorb and they have no understanding of what other people are seeing who have a different worldview.

Fixed that for you. We all know most 'news' these days is opinion, not fact, and is why things have gone to [BLEEP] just as you described.

I disagree with you a little bit.  I think most of the news media is giving you honest facts, but the facts they select for you are influenced by conscious or unconscious biases.  Every reporter or editor has to decide "what is the real story here," and from that, facts are selected to tell you that story.  The "real important story" might be "Trump is a moron," or it might be "Trump is being persecuted unfairly."  And then they select actual honest facts to tell you that story.  There's no getting around it, because reporters don't have unlimited space to tell you every fact and let you sort them out and decide for yourself what the real important stuff is.  

There's nothing dishonest about it most of the time.  The only time it becomes dishonest is when a media organization decides to cater to a specific audience, like Fox News has done for years.  The mainstream media never decided they would cater to liberals, they just have a liberal world view, and their bias comes in from that.  But Fox News was set up specifically to cater to a certain audience, and that to me is dishonest.  Although I would add, I like a lot of the Fox News straight news programs, which often do some very good journalism on interesting and important topics.  

But the bottom line is, most of the news media will give you straight facts.  They're not lying to you.  It's just that they have to omit a lot of facts because they have limited space or limited air time, and that's where the bias comes in.

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Fixed that for you. We all know most 'news' these days is opinion, not fact, and is why things have gone to [BLEEP] just as you described.

I disagree with you a little bit.  I think most of the news media is giving you honest facts, but the facts they select for you are influenced by conscious or unconscious biases.  Every reporter or editor has to decide "what is the real story here," and from that, facts are selected to tell you that story.  The "real important story" might be "Trump is a moron," or it might be "Trump is being persecuted unfairly."  And then they select actual honest facts to tell you that story.  There's no getting around it, because reporters don't have unlimited space to tell you every fact and let you sort them out and decide for yourself what the real important stuff is.  

There's nothing dishonest about it most of the time.  The only time it becomes dishonest is when a media organization decides to cater to a specific audience, like Fox News has done for years.  The mainstream media never decided they would cater to liberals, they just have a liberal world view, and their bias comes in from that.  But Fox News was set up specifically to cater to a certain audience, and that to me is dishonest.  Although I would add, I like a lot of the Fox News straight news programs, which often do some very good journalism on interesting and important topics.  

But the bottom line is, most of the news media will give you straight facts.  They're not lying to you.  It's just that they have to omit a lot of facts because they have limited space or limited air time, and that's where the bias comes in.

Carefully selected facts to forward an opinion. If another fact thwarts that opinion, then we won’t report it because we’re, you know, busy and we don’t have a lot of time. 

I understand you want to appear as the level-headed centrist, Marty, but don’t be obtuse. Even those on the left are stifling giggles at your assertion.

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I disagree with you a little bit.  I think most of the news media is giving you honest facts, but the facts they select for you are influenced by conscious or unconscious biases.  Every reporter or editor has to decide "what is the real story here," and from that, facts are selected to tell you that story.  The "real important story" might be "Trump is a moron," or it might be "Trump is being persecuted unfairly."  And then they select actual honest facts to tell you that story.  There's no getting around it, because reporters don't have unlimited space to tell you every fact and let you sort them out and decide for yourself what the real important stuff is.  

There's nothing dishonest about it most of the time.  The only time it becomes dishonest is when a media organization decides to cater to a specific audience, like Fox News has done for years.  The mainstream media never decided they would cater to liberals, they just have a liberal world view, and their bias comes in from that.  But Fox News was set up specifically to cater to a certain audience, and that to me is dishonest.  Although I would add, I like a lot of the Fox News straight news programs, which often do some very good journalism on interesting and important topics.  

But the bottom line is, most of the news media will give you straight facts.  They're not lying to you.  It's just that they have to omit a lot of facts because they have limited space or limited air time, and that's where the bias comes in.

Carefully selected facts to forward an opinion. If another fact thwarts that opinion, then we won’t report it because we’re, you know, busy and we don’t have a lot of time. 

I understand you want to appear as the level-headed centrist, Marty, but don’t be obtuse. Even those on the left are stifling giggles at your assertion.

Whether I am a levelheaded centrist, or a levelheaded conservative or whatever, I just don't believe there's a grand conspiracy among the news media.  There is bias.  But it's just normal unavoidable bias.  If you were a reporter, you would report things the way you saw them and you would filter the facts to support whatever you think the real story is.  There's nothing dishonest about that.  It's what any reporter has to do.  No reporter can report every single fact.  That's impossible.  So they have to select certain facts to tell what the real story is, as they see it.  

And I'm not trying to appear levelheaded or anything.  I'm just giving you my opinion.  If, in doing that, I appear levelheaded, well, good.  I'm not putting on an act.  These are my real opinions that I post here.

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Carefully selected facts to forward an opinion. If another fact thwarts that opinion, then we won’t report it because we’re, you know, busy and we don’t have a lot of time. 

I understand you want to appear as the level-headed centrist, Marty, but don’t be obtuse. Even those on the left are stifling giggles at your assertion.

Whether I am a levelheaded centrist, or a levelheaded conservative or whatever, I just don't believe there's a grand conspiracy among the news media.  There is bias.  But it's just normal unavoidable bias.  If you were a reporter, you would report things the way you saw them and you would filter the facts to support whatever you think the real story is.  There's nothing dishonest about that.  It's what any reporter has to do.  No reporter can report every single fact.  That's impossible.  So they have to select certain facts to tell what the real story is, as they see it.  

And I'm not trying to appear levelheaded or anything.  I'm just giving you my opinion.  If, in doing that, I appear levelheaded, well, good.  I'm not putting on an act.  These are my real opinions that I post here.

And like the media, your opinion is conveniently devoid of relevant fact. You're attempting to justify institutionalized misinformation. Remember when Trump said COVID originated in a Chinese lab and he was called a racist by the entire leftist MSM? Now what are they saying? Gosh, is it any coincidence the left and the right view the media as being untrustworthy? 

Anyway, enjoy your refreshing shower.

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Marty smells like asparagus lololol

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Jake Tapper Won’t Shy Away From Covering Hunter Biden (mediaite.com)

Yep, it made headlines that one lone person in the leftist MSM is going against their narrative by pursuing a story they've all collectively shunned because it doesn't agree with their widely held political narrative, I mean "world view". They probably don't have the time or space to cover it.

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Sure, sure...nothing to see here.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'd like to help you buddy, but nothing you've ever said has resonated with me.

I wasn't asking for help. 




Note to self:

When discussing an impending danger from violent extremists, make sure you aren't wasting your time telling the people who actually support the violent extremists.

I appreciate your post, and I wish that there were more adults in this forum who could discuss solutions with you.  Frankly, I steer clear of this place because it's so blatantly obvious that there are so many ignorant and hateful people here that it becomes impossible for me to see them as good people any longer, and it makes me sad.

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Don't forget racist, deplorable and transphobic!

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Whether I am a levelheaded centrist, or a levelheaded conservative or whatever, I just don't believe there's a grand conspiracy among the news media.  There is bias.  But it's just normal unavoidable bias.  If you were a reporter, you would report things the way you saw them and you would filter the facts to support whatever you think the real story is.  There's nothing dishonest about that.  It's what any reporter has to do.  No reporter can report every single fact.  That's impossible.  So they have to select certain facts to tell what the real story is, as they see it.  

And I'm not trying to appear levelheaded or anything.  I'm just giving you my opinion.  If, in doing that, I appear levelheaded, well, good.  I'm not putting on an act.  These are my real opinions that I post here.

And like the media, your opinion is conveniently devoid of relevant fact. You're attempting to justify institutionalized misinformation. Remember when Trump said COVID originated in a Chinese lab and he was called a racist by the entire leftist MSM? Now what are they saying? Gosh, is it any coincidence the left and the right view the media as being untrustworthy? 

A few things I want to add here.

"The entire leftist MSM" did not leap from "there is no evidence supporting the president's claim" to "he's racist for saying that."
The Whoopi Goldberg and Rachel Maddow types did, for sure. But there was plenty of responsible reporting that merely called his claim unsubstantiated, because it was. 

I clearly recall several network evening news broadcasts using language like "there are dozens of Chinese labs that study this type of virus and they have a history of accidental leaks, but there is no evidence to support that being the case at this time."  

Now - the issue that arises from all of this is that you already have around 40 million Trump cultists out there who are ready to eschew all basic truth and logical reasoning to blindly accept whatever manure he broadcasts as alternate fact. 
And then you've got millions more who may not belong to that particular church, but they are damn sure a lot more receptive to conspiracy theory than they once were and increasingly untrusting of the media. Hard to fault them. 

You add this together with the current digital age easily allowing the largest onslaught of propaganda ever known to a global populace  - and voters have real, serious work to do in order to feel certain they have culled through the disinformation and arrived upon fact. 

It is a major problem and you and I both know there are folks left, right and center falling prey to all kinds of falsity. 

Now despite my snarky ribbing of L2L in another thread about the right currently needing to resort to conspiracy theories and attempting to erode the integrity of "facts and truths" -- I do recognize that we have a major information problem on our hands. 

Unfortunately - Trump's campaign and presidency spent so much time attacking journalists and their craft that the already near-impossible path back to some semblance of journalistic integrity faces yet another hurdle and a partisan one at that. Making the waters even murkier. 

It really sucks - but the future of American politics looks like it will be one overflowing with disinformation for a long time to come. Voters will be rolling the dice that they are believing the most accurate information.

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Note to self:

When discussing an impending danger from violent extremists, make sure you aren't wasting your time telling the people who actually support the violent extremists.

I appreciate your post, and I wish that there were more adults in this forum who could discuss solutions with you.  Frankly, I steer clear of this place because it's so blatantly obvious that there are so many ignorant and hateful people here that it becomes impossible for me to see them as good people any longer, and it makes me sad.

Thanks for the appreciation. 

I stayed out of this forum for a long time too until the lack of football discussion in the offseason led me to offer up a different perspective to the mostly conservative regulars here. 

The folks you struggle to see as good people here I can't personally view that way. All but their most extreme takes fall in line with the views of many of my friends, colleagues, and family. If I'm going to make efforts in my personal life to not allow politics to ruin relationships, then I can still respect those who I disagree with here. 

It may get a little pointed at times, but the internet anonymity allows us to carry a debate on a bit longer than we might in person (for better or for worse) 
i.e. - I might not drive my point home the same way speaking to my father-in-law the same way I would here. 
If I see him painting himself into a corner and the hair on the back of his neck is standing up, I'm gonna change the subject to something more pleasant after a good-natured and somewhat acquiescent transition. 

Here - I can pound the nail in a few more times and expect some thoughtful responses that reveal another perspective even if I disagree with it.

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I appreciate your post, and I wish that there were more adults in this forum who could discuss solutions with you.  Frankly, I steer clear of this place because it's so blatantly obvious that there are so many ignorant and hateful people here that it becomes impossible for me to see them as good people any longer, and it makes me sad.

Thanks for the appreciation. 

I stayed out of this forum for a long time too until the lack of football discussion in the offseason led me to offer up a different perspective to the mostly conservative regulars here. 

The folks you struggle to see as good people here I can't personally view that way. All but their most extreme takes fall in line with the views of many of my friends, colleagues, and family. If I'm going to make efforts in my personal life to not allow politics to ruin relationships, then I can still respect those who I disagree with here. 

It may get a little pointed at times, but the internet anonymity allows us to carry a debate on a bit longer than we might in person (for better or for worse) 
i.e. - I might not drive my point home the same way speaking to my father-in-law the same way I would here. 
If I see him painting himself into a corner and the hair on the back of his neck is standing up, I'm gonna change the subject to something more pleasant after a good-natured and somewhat acquiescent transition. 

Here - I can pound the nail in a few more times and expect some thoughtful responses that reveal another perspective even if I disagree with it.

I agree 100%.  Political views don't make you a good person or a bad person. Being there for your family, your friends, working hard at your job, paying back loans you take out, being willing to learn, being willing to teach, those are the things that make you good or bad.  
When I was in high school and college I had friends who would say that communism would work if it was ever implemented competently, and other friends who said government should be run like a corporation, where if you're a big shareholder (wealthy) you get more votes than a small shareholder (poor).  I never told any of these people they were bad for having these ideas, but I did tell them they were wrong if I thought so.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Thanks for the appreciation. 

I stayed out of this forum for a long time too until the lack of football discussion in the offseason led me to offer up a different perspective to the mostly conservative regulars here. 

The folks you struggle to see as good people here I can't personally view that way. All but their most extreme takes fall in line with the views of many of my friends, colleagues, and family. If I'm going to make efforts in my personal life to not allow politics to ruin relationships, then I can still respect those who I disagree with here. 

It may get a little pointed at times, but the internet anonymity allows us to carry a debate on a bit longer than we might in person (for better or for worse) 
i.e. - I might not drive my point home the same way speaking to my father-in-law the same way I would here. 
If I see him painting himself into a corner and the hair on the back of his neck is standing up, I'm gonna change the subject to something more pleasant after a good-natured and somewhat acquiescent transition. 

Here - I can pound the nail in a few more times and expect some thoughtful responses that reveal another perspective even if I disagree with it.

I agree 100%.  Political views don't make you a good person or a bad person. Being there for your family, your friends, working hard at your job, paying back loans you take out, being willing to learn, being willing to teach, those are the things that make you good or bad.  
When I was in high school and college I had friends who would say that communism would work if it was ever implemented competently, and other friends who said government should be run like a corporation, where if you're a big shareholder (wealthy) you get more votes than a small shareholder (poor).  I never told any of these people they were bad for having these ideas, but I did tell them they were wrong if I thought so.

And that's the crux of the crocodile tears from the left. They've had decades to be able to freely attack the right or conservatives through their near universal control of the media and press. Now that the commoners have that same access it's suddenly beyond the pale that righties engage in the same tactics and they demand we shout down, blacklist, dox, and downright censor the opposing views because it's "ignorant and hateful" to oppose the left and only bad people would do that. It's why they so adamantly have to destroy Trump, because he unabashedly and unashamedly plays the game by their rules and is better at it then they are. I'm happy to tell you why you're wrong but I won't prohibit you from reading or saying whatever you want. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and that's why the lefties so oppose open and honest media.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I agree 100%.  Political views don't make you a good person or a bad person. Being there for your family, your friends, working hard at your job, paying back loans you take out, being willing to learn, being willing to teach, those are the things that make you good or bad.  
When I was in high school and college I had friends who would say that communism would work if it was ever implemented competently, and other friends who said government should be run like a corporation, where if you're a big shareholder (wealthy) you get more votes than a small shareholder (poor).  I never told any of these people they were bad for having these ideas, but I did tell them they were wrong if I thought so.

And that's the crux of the crocodile tears from the left. They've had decades to be able to freely attack the right or conservatives through their near universal control of the media and press. Now that the commoners have that same access it's suddenly beyond the pale that righties engage in the same tactics and they demand we shout down, blacklist, dox, and downright censor the opposing views because it's "ignorant and hateful" to oppose the left and only bad people would do that. It's why they so adamantly have to destroy Trump, because he unabashedly and unashamedly plays the game by their rules and is better at it then they are. I'm happy to tell you why you're wrong but I won't prohibit you from reading or saying whatever you want. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and that's why the lefties so oppose open and honest media.

Sunlight is currently melting the facade of lies and criminality that were the entire foundation of the Trump campaign and presidency. 

I'd absolutely love honest and open media. Probably would have saved us from 4 years of Trump and his horrific court appointments if more of the cultists had known the truth behind him instead of gobbling up his lies.

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Back on topic regarding the hateful rhetoric and the violence it is fomenting:

A Senate Judiciary Committee is calling for an internal investigation from the DHS (whose umbrella encompasses a number of federal agencies) to root out members of domestic terror militia groups from within its ranks.

We also know that the FBI is always attempting to infiltrate these extremist groups.

A number of violent plots have already been foiled by the FBI and I hope they continue to make inroads to stop those currently being planned.

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Back on topic regarding the hateful rhetoric and the violence it is fomenting:

A Senate Judiciary Committee is calling for an internal investigation from the DHS (whose umbrella encompasses a number of federal agencies) to root out members of domestic terror militia groups from within its ranks.

We also know that the FBI is always attempting to infiltrate these extremist groups.

A number of violent plots have already been foiled by the FBI and I hope they continue to make inroads to stop those currently being planned.

You mean planned and supported by the FBI.

All the groups are infiltrated by the FBI.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

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Back on topic regarding the hateful rhetoric and the violence it is fomenting:

A Senate Judiciary Committee is calling for an internal investigation from the DHS (whose umbrella encompasses a number of federal agencies) to root out members of domestic terror militia groups from within its ranks.

We also know that the FBI is always attempting to infiltrate these extremist groups.

A number of violent plots have already been foiled by the FBI and I hope they continue to make inroads to stop those currently being planned.

You mean planned and supported by the FBI.

All the groups are infiltrated by the FBI.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

No 
I don't believe that baseless conspiracy theory.

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Lol. You can't believe your eyes. Guys, remember... he has been told the FACTS, and anyone who doesn't believe what they are told are just simpletons. Don't watch this, you conspiracy nutjobs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgCr-fRrKhI

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Lol. You can't believe your eyes. Guys, remember... he has been told the FACTS, and anyone who doesn't believe what they are told are just simpletons. Don't watch this, you conspiracy nutjobs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgCr-fRrKhI

What am I supposed to believe from that, exactly? 

Looks like more whakadoodle blathering to me. 

Are you gonna produce evidence that Epps is/was a federal agent or something? Or are you just continuing to simply forward baseless conspiracy theory?

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