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Rookie Watch

#1

Bullseye always included a "Rookie Watch" within his impressions from the game posts.  In his absence, I thought a "Rookie Watch" thread would be a good topic.  We had 13 draft picks.  How are they doing?  I would note that I was one who wasn't particularly fond of this draft with a few exceptions.  However, I do recognize that only two games have been played.  Hopefully, they will develop into quality players for us.  This is "Rookie Watch" and not necessarily "Rookie Condemnation."  However, through two weeks, it's mostly been negative:

Harrison - He played mixed in week one but got destroyed by Kansas City in week two, although in fairness, he had to go against Chris Jones.

Strange - Through two weeks, he has no receptions and doesn't appear on the stat sheet.

Bigsby - He's credited with a touchdown, but it was from the 1 yard line.  Our offensive line actually blocked well on that one play and I think any running back would have scored there.  Everything else is negative.  Through two games, he has 7 rushing attempts for 13 yards or less than 2.0 yards per carry.  He's also responsible for an interception and for a fumble that was returned for a touchdown.  After his poor performance week 1, he played minimally in week 2.

Miller - Injured for the season.  However, he was looking to at best be a depth player.  

Lacy - Through two games, he only appears on the stat sheet for 1 assisted tackle.

Abdullah - Through two games, he only makes the stat sheet for 1 quarterback hurry.

Johnson - Injured.  He has not played.

Washington - He has not played.  He was a game day inactive both weeks.

Braswell - He hasn't played a single snap on defense.  He's played a couple of special teams snaps but has yet to make the stat sheet.

Hallet - Did not make the 53 man roster.  He's on the practice squad.

Hodges - Injured.  He has not played.

Vohasek - He did not make the 53 man roster.  He did not make the Jaguar's practice squad.  It appears that he couldn't make another team's practice squad either.  Unless I'm missing something, he's currently out of the NFL.

Parish - Did not make the 53 man roster.  He's on the Jaguars' practice squad, but probably wouldn't have made it if Prince hadn't decided to go to a different team's practice squad.

Cooks (Undrafted) - He has not played.  He was a game day inactive both weeks.

The rookies are not off to a great start.
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#2

i woudn't call it a bad thing if most of the rookies aren't playing, it means we have pretty good depth at most positions. i think if Hodges wasn't hurt he might of been our Starting LG.

Harrrison, Strange and Bigsby is where you want to see the picks pan out as they were all Round 1,2 and 3. so far Tank and Strange have played well. outside of the two bad plays in Indy for Tank he never got playingtime in game two for some reason.

Harrison got worked by one of the best DL guys in the entire NFL. so lets see how he does this week.
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#3

(09-22-2023, 01:50 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: Bullseye always included a "Rookie Watch" within his impressions from the game posts.  In his absence, I thought a "Rookie Watch" thread would be a good topic.  We had 13 draft picks.  How are they doing?  I would note that I was one who wasn't particularly fond of this draft with a few exceptions.  However, I do recognize that only two games have been played.  Hopefully, they will develop into quality players for us.  This is "Rookie Watch" and not necessarily "Rookie Condemnation."  However, through two weeks, it's mostly been negative:

Harrison - He played mixed in week one but got destroyed by Kansas City in week two, although in fairness, he had to go against Chris Jones.

Strange - Through two weeks, he has no receptions and doesn't appear on the stat sheet.

Bigsby - He's credited with a touchdown, but it was from the 1 yard line.  Our offensive line actually blocked well on that one play and I think any running back would have scored there.  Everything else is negative.  Through two games, he has 7 rushing attempts for 13 yards or less than 2.0 yards per carry.  He's also responsible for an interception and for a fumble that was returned for a touchdown.  After his poor performance week 1, he played minimally in week 2.

Miller - Injured for the season.  However, he was looking to at best be a depth player.  

Lacy - Through two games, he only appears on the stat sheet for 1 assisted tackle.

Abdullah - Through two games, he only makes the stat sheet for 1 quarterback hurry.

Johnson - Injured.  He has not played.

Washington - He has not played.  He was a game day inactive both weeks.

Braswell - He hasn't played a single snap on defense.  He's played a couple of special teams snaps but has yet to make the stat sheet.

Hallet - Did not make the 53 man roster.  He's on the practice squad.

Hodges - Injured.  He has not played.

Vohasek - He did not make the 53 man roster.  He did not make the Jaguar's practice squad.  It appears that he couldn't make another team's practice squad either.  Unless I'm missing something, he's currently out of the NFL.

Parish - Did not make the 53 man roster.  He's on the Jaguars' practice squad, but probably wouldn't have made it if Prince hadn't decided to go to a different team's practice squad.

Cooks (Undrafted) - He has not played.  He was a game day inactive both weeks.

The rookies are not off to a great start.

NOTES:

The tipped pass INT you are crediting to a rookie RB came from the hands of TL as he was getting tackled because of a busted screen intended to go to Strange.

Putting that "not good-under duress" pass all on the RB is unfair. 

Abdullah has only been in on 22 total snaps

Braswell is also banged up and was reported limited several times throughout camp (including prior to week one)
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#4

Down to revisit this thread half way thru the season
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#5

(09-22-2023, 03:23 PM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(09-22-2023, 01:50 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: Bullseye always included a "Rookie Watch" within his impressions from the game posts.  In his absence, I thought a "Rookie Watch" thread would be a good topic.  We had 13 draft picks.  How are they doing?  I would note that I was one who wasn't particularly fond of this draft with a few exceptions.  However, I do recognize that only two games have been played.  Hopefully, they will develop into quality players for us.  This is "Rookie Watch" and not necessarily "Rookie Condemnation."  However, through two weeks, it's mostly been negative:

Harrison - He played mixed in week one but got destroyed by Kansas City in week two, although in fairness, he had to go against Chris Jones.

Strange - Through two weeks, he has no receptions and doesn't appear on the stat sheet.

Bigsby - He's credited with a touchdown, but it was from the 1 yard line.  Our offensive line actually blocked well on that one play and I think any running back would have scored there.  Everything else is negative.  Through two games, he has 7 rushing attempts for 13 yards or less than 2.0 yards per carry.  He's also responsible for an interception and for a fumble that was returned for a touchdown.  After his poor performance week 1, he played minimally in week 2.

Miller - Injured for the season.  However, he was looking to at best be a depth player.  

Lacy - Through two games, he only appears on the stat sheet for 1 assisted tackle.

Abdullah - Through two games, he only makes the stat sheet for 1 quarterback hurry.

Johnson - Injured.  He has not played.

Washington - He has not played.  He was a game day inactive both weeks.

Braswell - He hasn't played a single snap on defense.  He's played a couple of special teams snaps but has yet to make the stat sheet.

Hallet - Did not make the 53 man roster.  He's on the practice squad.

Hodges - Injured.  He has not played.

Vohasek - He did not make the 53 man roster.  He did not make the Jaguar's practice squad.  It appears that he couldn't make another team's practice squad either.  Unless I'm missing something, he's currently out of the NFL.

Parish - Did not make the 53 man roster.  He's on the Jaguars' practice squad, but probably wouldn't have made it if Prince hadn't decided to go to a different team's practice squad.

Cooks (Undrafted) - He has not played.  He was a game day inactive both weeks.

The rookies are not off to a great start.

NOTES:

The tipped pass INT you are crediting to a rookie RB came from the hands of TL as he was getting tackled because of a busted screen intended to go to Strange.

Putting that "not good-under duress" pass all on the RB is unfair. 

Abdullah has only been in on 22 total snaps

Braswell is also banged up and was reported limited several times throughout camp (including prior to week one)

In regards to the interception, it's true that it's a team sport.  Trevor's throw was a little off and was clearly impacted by poor offensive line protection.  However, I don't feel either absolves Bigsby for responsibility for tipping a pass for an interception.

In regards to Abdullah, I feel lack of playing time is fair game for criticizing a rookie if it's not related to injury.  The goal of the draft is to upgrade the talent on the field.  If the coaches feel the rookie playing wouldn't help the team win, he is not contributing towards the goal.

Let's hope for some breakout performances today.
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#6

We're 10 weeks into the season.  I think it's past time to do a Rookie Watch update.

Harrison - He's a starter.  Offensive line isn't a stat position, so it becomes subjective.  I think most would say that's he's been up and down.  I personally feel he's been more up than down.  He's definitely made "rookie mistakes", but he is a rookie.  He's struggled against top defensive players, but so do most offensive linemen.  I think he will get better with experience, but PFF only grades him as 55.2 through 10 games.

Strange - This pick remains strange (pun intended).  Why use a valuable second round pick on a player who would sit the bench for almost two thirds of the offensive snaps?  Former fifth round pick Luke Farrell has gotten more offensive snaps.  Through 10 games, Strange only has 4 receptions for 34 yards.  He does have 1 TD, but it was a defensive mistake.  He wasn't even covered on that play.  

Bigsby - I can't do a pun, but this was also a strange pick.  He has 35 rushes for 80 yards for a 2.3 yards per carry average.  He also has 1 reception for 6 yards.  He does have 2 rushing touchdowns, but 1 of them was a gimmee.  He's also been known for mistakes.  He's had 2 fumbles and at least 2 balls that were tipped by him for interceptions.  He appears to have been demoted to the third string running back.

Miller - Injured reserve for the season.

Lacy - He's had only a minor impact with 3 solo tackles, 5 assist on tackles and 1 qb hit in eight games played.

Abdulah - He played in the first five games and had 2 quarterback pressures including one of them being a quarterback knock down.  He also had 1 solo tackle.  However, with the return of Smoot, Abdulah got demoted to game day inactive and hasn't played since that time.

Johnson - He began the season injured. Once he got healthy, he's mostly played special teams with only 14 defensive snaps.  He does have an interception, but it was a hail Mary in garbage time with the game already won by the Jaguars.  He also has 1 pass defensed, two solo tackles and 1 assist on a tackle.

Washington - He's the backup to Agnew and is a healthy scratch unless Agnew is injured.  He's played in two games and has 1 punt return for 5 yards to his credit.

Braswell - He hasn't played a single snap on defense and only 9 snaps on special teams.

Hallet - He failed to make the 53 man roster.  He's on our practice squad.  

Hodges - He's had an injury and has not played.

Vohasek - He failed to make the 53 man roster and is currently out of the NFL.

Parish - He failed to make the 53 man roster.  He was initially signed to the practice squad but was later waived and is is currently out of the NFL.
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#7

The second year guys are making a better impact than the rooks so far - understandably with the exception of the early picks.

Not worried about Harrison - looks the part - just green - and facing tough competition.

Strange's blocking has been mostly subpar and he's had impact in one game so far as receiving threat. Would be nice to see a second round pick start to look like one before the season ends.

Washington will have opportunity to show whether or not he has a future as a return guy in the coming weeks. So far - they seem to be instructing him to let it bounce unless it's a sure thing fair catch or return. He's shying away from it too much to be jitters IMO.

Abdulah and Lacy could end top solid rotational pieces if they develop.

Johnson and Braswell should be good competition in camp next year. Maybe Hallet too.
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#8

I have nothing against Strange or Bigsby but they were the wrong picks for this team, and that was obvious when they were picked. We knew they would not get much playing time. However we thought they would make more impact in the time they did get. They have disappointed even the low expectations we had.
But Harrison is looking good.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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#9

i think strange was a insurance for Engram if we didn't resign him. but Tank wasn't needed especially with Hasty and Johnson who are more than capable to be a backup.

Harrison has had his ups and downs but has been pleasant being a starter all year. i was hoping hodges would be our Center or LG but his injury hurt his development for sure.
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#10

Yep, Harrison is the pick that helps the most. It would be nice to see Johnson and Abdullah get some snaps if they are good enough.
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#11

Strange wasn’t a pick for this year or maybe even next year. He’s being groomed to replace Engram one day, and tight end is a notoriously slow developing position.

How about we don’t write off strange and bigsby until at least their second year. I’m sure y’all wrote off Trevor and Lloyd, but players develop surprisingly.
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#12

Mostly absent. Harrison is playing decent considering the monsters he had to go up against. Strange is blocking decent. Pass game still TBD. Bigsby has been a mess so far with fumbles, route miscommunications, and blocking assignments. The rest have barely been seen to evaluate.
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#13
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2023, 09:28 PM by Eric1. Edited 1 time in total.)

I'm giving Strange some time. TE is rarely a position that wows from the jump, they take time. Farrell has only played 25 more Offensive snaps than Strange this season. Yet Farrell has played 32 more games (and 2nd year in this system) in the NFL than Strange.

Strange has the ability and nastiness. I've seen plenty of clips on twitter of him mauling guys while blocking and getting open on routes.
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#14

(11-23-2023, 05:21 PM)NoShoes Wrote: Strange wasn’t a pick for this year or maybe even next year. He’s being groomed to replace Engram one day, and tight end is a notoriously slow developing position.

How about we don’t write off strange and bigsby until at least their second year. I’m sure y’all wrote off Trevor and Lloyd, but players develop surprisingly.

No truer words.  We all have to remember with the exception of Harrison, they always said this was a draft targeting depth.
A new broom always sweeps clean.
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#15

(11-23-2023, 09:58 PM)Jag149 Wrote:
(11-23-2023, 05:21 PM)NoShoes Wrote: Strange wasn’t a pick for this year or maybe even next year. He’s being groomed to replace Engram one day, and tight end is a notoriously slow developing position.

How about we don’t write off strange and bigsby until at least their second year. I’m sure y’all wrote off Trevor and Lloyd, but players develop surprisingly.

No truer words.  We all have to remember with the exception of Harrison, they always said this was a draft targeting depth.

It will be a challenge for this draft class to become anything above "average".
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#16

This has been an interesting class. Initially when I saw that this team had 13 overall draft selections. I figured the choices that were going to be made were mostly long term > short term. My only gripe has been the 2nd and 3rd RD decisions.

As I feel those choices should have been made for more important positions of need at the time. TE and RB were not needed on this roster. Even with Engram's situation. He was tagged and stuck here for a year anyway. Seeing another RB taken so high just pisses me off. Especially with how most 1st RD selected RB's are ran into the ground and utilized to the max on their first contract and earlier days of their career.

Guys like Lacy, Miller, Abdullah, Johnson & Hodges are probably 2nd tier depth players, maybe even 3rd tier depth players at best with a slim to none chance of starting. Johnson probably having the highest probability to start as a nickel/in the box coverage guy.

We'll see how it all pans out. I have liked the development of Walker and Lloyd in year two. I have not liked the development of Fortner. I have liked the development of Lawrence, Etienne, Little, Cisco and Campbell in year three as well. Baalke still has holes to address next off season. This time, MAJOR holes in my opinion.

Finding another edge rusher and addressing the interior of the offensive line should already be on his priority list.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#17
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2023, 09:57 AM by Jaguarmeister. Edited 1 time in total.)

(11-24-2023, 09:26 AM)Caldrac Wrote: This has been an interesting class. Initially when I saw that this team had 13 overall draft selections. I figured the choices that were going to be made were mostly long term > short term. My only gripe has been the 2nd and 3rd RD decisions.

As I feel those choices should have been made for more important positions of need at the time. TE and RB were not needed on this roster. Even with Engram's situation. He was tagged and stuck here for a year anyway. Seeing another RB taken so high just pisses me off. Especially with how most 1st RD selected RB's are ran into the ground and utilized to the max on their first contract and earlier days of their career.

Guys like Lacy, Miller, Abdullah, Johnson & Hodges are probably 2nd tier depth players, maybe even 3rd tier depth players at best with a slim to none chance of starting. Johnson probably having the highest probability to start as a nickel/in the box coverage guy.

We'll see how it all pans out. I have liked the development of Walker and Lloyd in year two. I have not liked the development of Fortner. I have liked the development of Lawrence, Etienne, Little, Cisco and Campbell in year three as well. Baalke still has holes to address next off season. This time, MAJOR holes in my opinion.

Finding another edge rusher and addressing the interior of the offensive line should already be on his priority list.

RB was a need.  I promise you the plan was not to have ETN see the level of usage he's gotten this year to date.  No one yet has asserted themselves as a clear number 2 is the problem.  You can gripe about the actual selection (though I'd keep an open mind given the small sample size thus far), but RB was and still is a need if only to spell ETN and be efficient while doing so.  Having someone who has a high probability of converting short yardage situations would be nice as well.

Last week against the tacks was the highest usage Tank and D'Ernest have seen all year I believe.  That may have been because it was a blowout in our favor as aside from D'Ernest's one long reception, neither was all that efficient.  Tank did move the pile once in a short yardage situation.  Whether it was situational due to the blow out or a concerted effort to get both more involved I don't know, but I'll take it either way for ETN's sake.
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#18

(11-24-2023, 09:52 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote:
(11-24-2023, 09:26 AM)Caldrac Wrote: This has been an interesting class. Initially when I saw that this team had 13 overall draft selections. I figured the choices that were going to be made were mostly long term > short term. My only gripe has been the 2nd and 3rd RD decisions.

As I feel those choices should have been made for more important positions of need at the time. TE and RB were not needed on this roster. Even with Engram's situation. He was tagged and stuck here for a year anyway. Seeing another RB taken so high just pisses me off. Especially with how most 1st RD selected RB's are ran into the ground and utilized to the max on their first contract and earlier days of their career.

Guys like Lacy, Miller, Abdullah, Johnson & Hodges are probably 2nd tier depth players, maybe even 3rd tier depth players at best with a slim to none chance of starting. Johnson probably having the highest probability to start as a nickel/in the box coverage guy.

We'll see how it all pans out. I have liked the development of Walker and Lloyd in year two. I have not liked the development of Fortner. I have liked the development of Lawrence, Etienne, Little, Cisco and Campbell in year three as well. Baalke still has holes to address next off season. This time, MAJOR holes in my opinion.

Finding another edge rusher and addressing the interior of the offensive line should already be on his priority list.

RB was a need.  I promise you the plan was not to have ETN see the level of usage he's gotten this year to date.  No one yet has asserted themselves as a clear number 2 is the problem.  You can gripe about the actual selection (though I'd keep an open mind given the small sample size thus far), but RB was and still is a need if only to spell ETN and be efficient while doing so.  Having someone who has a high probability of converting short yardage situations would be nice as well.

Last week against the tacks was the highest usage Tank and D'Ernest have seen all year I believe.  That may have been because it was a blowout in our favor as aside from D'Ernest's one long reception, neither was all that efficient.  Tank did move the pile once in a short yardage situation.  Whether it was situational due to the blow out or a concerted effort to get both more involved I don't know, but I'll take it either way for ETN's sake.

I think DJ is your current clear #2 and should have been from jump street. 
His cleveland tape should have been enough to establish that.

I totally get giving a promising rookie opportunities, but DJ needs to be the spellback and the guy going in to protect/block. 

Save Bigsby for garbage time or blowout/burn clock snaps. He'll be good next year.
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#19

(11-24-2023, 10:24 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(11-24-2023, 09:52 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: RB was a need.  I promise you the plan was not to have ETN see the level of usage he's gotten this year to date.  No one yet has asserted themselves as a clear number 2 is the problem.  You can gripe about the actual selection (though I'd keep an open mind given the small sample size thus far), but RB was and still is a need if only to spell ETN and be efficient while doing so.  Having someone who has a high probability of converting short yardage situations would be nice as well.

Last week against the tacks was the highest usage Tank and D'Ernest have seen all year I believe.  That may have been because it was a blowout in our favor as aside from D'Ernest's one long reception, neither was all that efficient.  Tank did move the pile once in a short yardage situation.  Whether it was situational due to the blow out or a concerted effort to get both more involved I don't know, but I'll take it either way for ETN's sake.

I think DJ is your current clear #2 and should have been from jump street. 
His cleveland tape should have been enough to establish that.

I totally get giving a promising rookie opportunities, but DJ needs to be the spellback and the guy going in to protect/block. 

Save Bigsby for garbage time or blowout/burn clock snaps. He'll be good next year.

This. I never understood the Bigsby selection from the beginning. You had Johnson signed and Hasty extended. RB was a slight need, not worthy of dropping a 3rd RD pick on. He's also been one of the least impressive RB's taken from this year's class so far. 

With the exception of guys like Robinson and Gibbs who were first round picks. I would say guys like Spears, Achane and Johnson in Chicago have all showed more promise moving forward. Then you get into the undrafted RB class. Baltimore's Keaton Mitchell being the biggest name.

Baalke is not good at evaluating or landing good RB's in the draft. Sans Etienne, which may or may have been his decision to begin with.
[Image: 4SXW6gC.png]

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."
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#20
(This post was last modified: 11-24-2023, 11:14 AM by Jaguarmeister. Edited 1 time in total.)

(11-24-2023, 10:24 AM)NYC4jags Wrote:
(11-24-2023, 09:52 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: RB was a need.  I promise you the plan was not to have ETN see the level of usage he's gotten this year to date.  No one yet has asserted themselves as a clear number 2 is the problem.  You can gripe about the actual selection (though I'd keep an open mind given the small sample size thus far), but RB was and still is a need if only to spell ETN and be efficient while doing so.  Having someone who has a high probability of converting short yardage situations would be nice as well.

Last week against the tacks was the highest usage Tank and D'Ernest have seen all year I believe.  That may have been because it was a blowout in our favor as aside from D'Ernest's one long reception, neither was all that efficient.  Tank did move the pile once in a short yardage situation.  Whether it was situational due to the blow out or a concerted effort to get both more involved I don't know, but I'll take it either way for ETN's sake.

I think DJ is your current clear #2 and should have been from jump street. 
His cleveland tape should have been enough to establish that.

I totally get giving a promising rookie opportunities, but DJ needs to be the spellback and the guy going in to protect/block. 

Save Bigsby for garbage time or blowout/burn clock snaps. He'll be good next year.

I think it may be clear he is the #2 over Tank, but I don't think it's clear he is a #2.  Perhaps it changes with more opportunities for DJ (25 total touches on the year, 8 of which came last game) or as Tank gains experience and develops further, but as it stands I don't know how anyone would be confident in this running game and by extension this offense if ETN were to go down for an extended period.
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