The issue is the collapse. We were 8-3. We had a stranglehold on the division. And we finished 1-5.

Yes, they should've won the division. The world didn't end because they didn't, you just are experiencing unmet expectations and these fans don't have much experience with that.

I want accountability. The world doesn't end when we finish 1-16 either.

I expect people to lose their jobs over this, and Khan has shown that he's rarely willing to do that.

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The issue is the collapse. We were 8-3. We had a stranglehold on the division. And we finished 1-5.

Yes, they should've won the division. The world didn't end because they didn't, you just are experiencing unmet expectations and these fans don't have much experience with that.

Entitlement? Ad nauseum discussion of line problems that weren't addressed with an abundance of picks. We continue to get poor production from the draft process.i appreciate the process but somethings are obvious. We do poorly with the obvious.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

If you want to complain and say how everyone should be fired, kindly pop onto one of the other 20 threads doing that. I'd like this to be a thread where we can have a sensible debate about the good and bad of this season and the progress this team has made in the 2 years under Doug and what this team looks like going forward next season and after.

Now cast your mind back to the Urban year. Yeah sorry but remember the dysfunction, the games being over after 5 minutes, Zach Wilson breaking tackles on TD runs, Mac Jones putting 50 up on us and 2 years of back to back #1 picks. As rough as being a Jags fan has been, that was the lowest low. I remember people saying they had grown to hate football because of the Jags. 

Doug came in with a huge task to turn this team around and we saw the same mistakes and game losing plays in the first half of last season but then something clicked and we went on a magical run that ended in the Division round. A roster so bad they had 2 years of #1 picks, plus a group of 'overpaid' FA additions massively overachieved and restored some pride in the Jags name.

The offseason was a case of trying to retain the talent we had. We had to let players walk to get under the cap (Jawaan, Key), managed to resign Engram and added Ridley. It didn't look a bad job considering where we started the offseason but Ridley was up and down and the rookies drafted failed to be valuable contributors.

We had the 3rd toughest schedule this year and got to 8-3, even with the Oline problems and injuries and mistakes ruining the season. Its disappointing to miss the playoffs after such a strong start but this team has definitely showed progress in these 2 years. 

This offseason is a huge challenge for Baalke or a new GM (personally I don't see Khan making a change yet) and we need talent at Oline and Dline and better depth all over the roster. There are some big decisions with contracts and cap maneuvering that will effect the draft. I fully expect us to bounce back next year with a better roster but still not a true SB contender and ready to fight for the South and playoffs again.

I know asking after a painful loss and end to the season isn't the best time but do you feel we are a franchise moving in the right direction and think we can continue to do so?

DTWD.

First and foremost. Yes. This. BOLD CITY. 

I agree with most of this. 8-3 was impressive and I feel like if we had literally anyone other than a turnstile at C+LT injuries many of our games were much more manageable. 

The elephant in the room now is the GM/HC/QB. I love Doug, but he has really worn me out with some of the pressers we've been seeing. Hearing the same BS, throwing shade at the players, I wish he would just own the decision with Press and fire him, or at least demote/laterally move him to passing coordinator and take back playcalling, something... Something has to be done after starting 8-3 and going 9-8. You don't do that and just go hurr durr players need to execute... When that last 3rd and goal call was such a head scratcher, straight up disaster play.. Not taking the points, head scratcher. You may even play that final drive a bit differently knowing its 26-28 and all you need is 3. 

I think ETN ran out of gas this year, you can tell the pop/burst faded late in the year, we need someone who can actually spell him that isn't an incompetent turnover machine aka Tank. 

In conclusion, Baalke needs to fix this interior OL, find out what he's doing with Ridley, and keep Trevor upright for a season so we can see if our QB is any good. PLEASE! 

As upset as I was yesterday, today is for moving on, find the silver lining and hope the team can identify root cause for the collapse and act accordingly to fix it.

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Doug definitely deserves criticism for the collapse, I'm just not ready to dust off the old pitchfork for him specifically.  I'd be curious to know what the cause of some of the issues on defense from 1st half of the year to 2nd half of the year were.  I know we dealt with injuries all over, but the most significant ones to me seemed to be on offense.

Lol, year 2 of this most recent rebuild with 2 winning seasons, 18 wins, and a playoff victory. These bozos would've been over the moon if you told them was the future when the Urban Error was let go. Basement to Entitlement in exactly 14 months.

Yeah there's definitely some entitlement mindset going around, probably in the locker room as well, but everyone is justified in being severely disappointed and critical of a team that apparently had a roster good enough to start 8-3 and then finish 1-5 to wind up 9-8.  An 8-3 roster that was also winning despite leaving points out there almost every week meaning that many of our wins could have easily been in blow out fashion had a few things gotten cleaned up that were within our control.

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Rauscher and Hall are my two guys who I think need to go on the coaching staff. Press I'm not sure what to make of honestly. Caldwell as well.

But both the OL and WRs regressed badly this year.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2024/1/8/24...fense-line

This hit the nail on the head for me.

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The issue is the collapse. We were 8-3. We had a stranglehold on the division. And we finished 1-5.

Yes, they should've won the division. The world didn't end because they didn't, you just are experiencing unmet expectations and these fans don't have much experience with that.

I think this is a really good point and something we see all going to have to learn. Part of the reason people were so angry yesterday is that they had belief and expectations for the team. That's pretty new for us as sad as that sounds. For me this season  was proving last year wasn't a one off and as disappointed as I was with how we finished, taking a step back and looking at the schedule I think we showed this is a team that will have playoff expectations and more for a while.

I think teams like the Patriots and Chiefs have skewed fans expectations. They see teams able to go to multiple SB's and think its a realistic expectation but there are 31 other teams trying to do the same. I look at a team like Baltimore. Always have a good roster, good coaching staff, start the year with high expectations but they haven't been to the SB in 11 years. They've missed playoffs, they've choked in playoffs. You need so many things to go right and luck bounce your way over the course of a season. This is the roller coaster of football and the ups and downs of being a fan.

I love the fact we have a team that is fighting for playoffs and the roster, talent and experience will improve over the years. The AFC is going to be a dog fight for years to come and we'll have good years and bad years. I can't wait for that crazy ride, with all the good and bad and maybe one year it will fall our way.

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If you want to complain and say how everyone should be fired, kindly pop onto one of the other 20 threads doing that. I'd like this to be a thread where we can have a sensible debate about the good and bad of this season and the progress this team has made in the 2 years under Doug and what this team looks like going forward next season and after.

Now cast your mind back to the Urban year. Yeah sorry but remember the dysfunction, the games being over after 5 minutes, Zach Wilson breaking tackles on TD runs, Mac Jones putting 50 up on us and 2 years of back to back #1 picks. As rough as being a Jags fan has been, that was the lowest low. I remember people saying they had grown to hate football because of the Jags. 

Doug came in with a huge task to turn this team around and we saw the same mistakes and game losing plays in the first half of last season but then something clicked and we went on a magical run that ended in the Division round. A roster so bad they had 2 years of #1 picks, plus a group of 'overpaid' FA additions massively overachieved and restored some pride in the Jags name.

The offseason was a case of trying to retain the talent we had. We had to let players walk to get under the cap (Jawaan, Key), managed to resign Engram and added Ridley. It didn't look a bad job considering where we started the offseason but Ridley was up and down and the rookies drafted failed to be valuable contributors.

We had the 3rd toughest schedule this year and got to 8-3, even with the Oline problems and injuries and mistakes ruining the season. Its disappointing to miss the playoffs after such a strong start but this team has definitely showed progress in these 2 years. 

This offseason is a huge challenge for Baalke or a new GM (personally I don't see Khan making a change yet) and we need talent at Oline and Dline and better depth all over the roster. There are some big decisions with contracts and cap maneuvering that will effect the draft. I fully expect us to bounce back next year with a better roster but still not a true SB contender and ready to fight for the South and playoffs again.

I know asking after a painful loss and end to the season isn't the best time but do you feel we are a franchise moving in the right direction and think we can continue to do so?

DTWD.

First and foremost. Yes. This. BOLD CITY. 

I agree with most of this. 8-3 was impressive and I feel like if we had literally anyone other than a turnstile at C+LT injuries many of our games were much more manageable. 

The elephant in the room now is the GM/HC/QB. I love Doug, but he has really worn me out with some of the pressers we've been seeing. Hearing the same BS, throwing shade at the players, I wish he would just own the decision with Press and fire him, or at least demote/laterally move him to passing coordinator and take back playcalling, something... Something has to be done after starting 8-3 and going 9-8. You don't do that and just go hurr durr players need to execute... When that last 3rd and goal call was such a head scratcher, straight up disaster play.. Not taking the points, head scratcher. You may even play that final drive a bit differently knowing its 26-28 and all you need is 3. 

I think ETN ran out of gas this year, you can tell the pop/burst faded late in the year, we need someone who can actually spell him that isn't an incompetent turnover machine aka Tank. 

In conclusion, Baalke needs to fix this interior OL, find out what he's doing with Ridley, and keep Trevor upright for a season so we can see if our QB is any good. PLEASE! 

As upset as I was yesterday, today is for moving on, find the silver lining and hope the team can identify root cause for the collapse and act accordingly to fix it.

Good post. Press has been debated a lot on here and we all have our on idea on where his influence starts and stops on the problems the O have had. One person who definitely knows is Doug. HC's have guys they like and work with what they are trying to do but if Press is hurting more than he's helping then Doug needs to be honest. It's a cut throat league and he's already lost one job for Press, I'd hate to see it bring him down here.

I love Dougs aggressiveness but there have been times where its hurt us. It's tough as you go for it on 4th and you get it then it's a great call, don't and you shouldn't but some of the playcalls for those situations have been what hurt us (which goes back to Press helping or hurting).

I definitely think they thought Bigsby would be able to contribute down the stretch but those mistakes week 1 seemed to knock his confidence and the coaches confidence in him. D'Earnest did some nice things but never seemed to get the carries.

Oline and Dline are the big issues for me. We need reinforcements and we need depth. Josh covered a lot of the pass rush deficiencies with an incredible year but he needs help and hopefully that helps the secondary. Oline has to be top priority and I hope we make some moves in FA. 

I've said for weeks that the thing that gives me hope is most of our problems are things we can fix. It's easy to say that but now the FO needs to go out and do it.

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7 of Lawrence's 14 interceptions this year came in his final 4 games (after the high ankle sprain).  Sure, 1 of those was Engram's fault yesterday and there were several others through out the year that I didn't think were necessarily Lawrence's fault, but there was still a marked uptick in picks since that specific game/injury.  That said, I don't think Lawrence's play was egregious enough in his final 4 games that he is the sole reason we lost each, but the down turn in his play (due to injury or for whatever reason you want to assign) certainly contributed.  I think he was probably playing through significant enough pain to take a little zip off his ball or reduce his accuracy or a combination of things.  Couple the downturn there with the defense's ability to defend the run falling off a cliff in the 2nd half of the year and several other factors including the lack of a short yardage, power running game and other roster deficiencies caught up.  He'll be healthy to start next season and we'll very likely provide much better protection for him next year.  He'll be fine and we'll be fine.

I think you explained it perfectly. Great post.

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I know it's a small sample for Tank yesterday, 3 runs for 16 yards or some such, but I will say he looked different on those runs in a good way to me. He was getting yards after contact and running with purpose in stark contrast to falling over at the first touch earlier in the season and fumbling the ball or tipping passes away to be intercepted. I'm looking forward to seeing him earn a greater role next off season.

That tipped ball interception brings me back to Lawrence and his interceptions. That one by Bigsby was not Trevor's fault, the one against Houston where Engram was blatantly held on a timing route was not Trevor's fault and the one in the finale that Engram tipped up was not Trevor's fault, but still go on his stat sheet to be hung around his neck by the stat worshipping critics. I wonder how many others this year were, to even the most casual viewer, clearly the fault of someone else on the offense. It's a fruitless exercise though, so I'll leave that one to someone else. All QBs have that from time to time, but it does feel like Trevor got a little more than his share of it this year from just the few examples off the top of my head. There's probably a couple more I'm forgetting.

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I know it's a small sample for Tank yesterday, 3 runs for 16 yards or some such, but I will say he looked different on those runs in a good way to me.  He was getting yards after contact and running with purpose in stark contrast to falling over at the first touch earlier in the season and fumbling the ball or tipping passes away to be intercepted.  I'm looking forward to seeing him earn a greater role next off season.

That tipped ball interception brings me back to Lawrence and his interceptions.  That one by Bigsby was not Trevor's fault, the one against Houston where Engram was blatantly held on a timing route was not Trevor's fault and the one in the finale that Engram tipped up was not Trevor's fault, but still go on his stat sheet to be hung around his neck by the stat worshipping critics.  I wonder how many others this year were, to even the most casual viewer, clearly the fault of someone else on the offense.  It's a fruitless exercise though, so I'll leave that one to someone else.  All QBs have that from time to time, but it does feel like Trevor got a little more than his share of it this year from just the few examples off the top of my head.  There's probably a couple more I'm forgetting.

I thought he did a pretty good job on KR too. We don't seem to have anyone particularly after Agnew for that role. I think week 1 knocked his confidence and the coaches confidence in him and he looked nervous for a while and then more mistakes came. We need someone to help Etienne carry the load and give him some plays off. I don't know if they add a cheap vet or a late round draft and have a bit of competition in camp but agree that he's making small steps forward.

I have got to say aswell I thought Ridley played well yesterday. He's been a tough question mark this year. Missed a lot of time and he looked healthy but not football healthy. He had some good and bad games this year and mistakes you wouldn't expect from an older player but he's still young. It's going to be a tough decision on what to do with him. Has this season kicked the rust off him and next year he'll be that #1WR and be a big weapon? How much do you pay him? Can you find his production elsewhere? Do you give someone like Washington a bigger role?

And you right about the interceptions. There were quite a few that a receiver tipped up or were the reason but it goes down on Trevors stats. Some people can factor that in to their overall opinion. Some don't.

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I know it's a small sample for Tank yesterday, 3 runs for 16 yards or some such, but I will say he looked different on those runs in a good way to me.  He was getting yards after contact and running with purpose in stark contrast to falling over at the first touch earlier in the season and fumbling the ball or tipping passes away to be intercepted.  I'm looking forward to seeing him earn a greater role next off season.

That tipped ball interception brings me back to Lawrence and his interceptions.  That one by Bigsby was not Trevor's fault, the one against Houston where Engram was blatantly held on a timing route was not Trevor's fault and the one in the finale that Engram tipped up was not Trevor's fault, but still go on his stat sheet to be hung around his neck by the stat worshipping critics.  I wonder how many others this year were, to even the most casual viewer, clearly the fault of someone else on the offense.  It's a fruitless exercise though, so I'll leave that one to someone else.  All QBs have that from time to time, but it does feel like Trevor got a little more than his share of it this year from just the few examples off the top of my head.  There's probably a couple more I'm forgetting.

I thought he did a pretty good job on KR too. We don't seem to have anyone particularly after Agnew for that role. I think week 1 knocked his confidence and the coaches confidence in him and he looked nervous for a while and then more mistakes came. We need someone to help Etienne carry the load and give him some plays off. I don't know if they add a cheap vet or a late round draft and have a bit of competition in camp but agree that he's making small steps forward.

I have got to say aswell I thought Ridley played well yesterday. He's been a tough question mark this year. Missed a lot of time and he looked healthy but not football healthy. He had some good and bad games this year and mistakes you wouldn't expect from an older player but he's still young. It's going to be a tough decision on what to do with him. Has this season kicked the rust off him and next year he'll be that #1WR and be a big weapon? How much do you pay him? Can you find his production elsewhere? Do you give someone like Washington a bigger role?

And you right about the interceptions. There were quite a few that a receiver tipped up or were the reason but it goes down on Trevors stats. Some people can factor that in to their overall opinion. Some don't.

Yeah I think you try to retain him at a reasonable salary.  He's going to (smartly) want every dollar he can get though especially since he missed almost two season's worth of paychecks.  I think Washington will have a bigger role next year as well regardless of Ridley.  I liked what I saw out of him for the most part when Kirk went down.

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I thought he did a pretty good job on KR too. We don't seem to have anyone particularly after Agnew for that role. I think week 1 knocked his confidence and the coaches confidence in him and he looked nervous for a while and then more mistakes came. We need someone to help Etienne carry the load and give him some plays off. I don't know if they add a cheap vet or a late round draft and have a bit of competition in camp but agree that he's making small steps forward.

I have got to say aswell I thought Ridley played well yesterday. He's been a tough question mark this year. Missed a lot of time and he looked healthy but not football healthy. He had some good and bad games this year and mistakes you wouldn't expect from an older player but he's still young. It's going to be a tough decision on what to do with him. Has this season kicked the rust off him and next year he'll be that #1WR and be a big weapon? How much do you pay him? Can you find his production elsewhere? Do you give someone like Washington a bigger role?

And you right about the interceptions. There were quite a few that a receiver tipped up or were the reason but it goes down on Trevors stats. Some people can factor that in to their overall opinion. Some don't.

Yeah I think you try to retain him at a reasonable salary.  He's going to (smartly) want every dollar he can get though especially since he missed almost two season's worth of paychecks.  I think Washington will have a bigger role next year as well regardless of Ridley.  I liked what I saw out of him for the most part when Kirk went down.

I'd imagine the FO have a figure in mind and Ridley does too. How close or far apart they are will probably decide a lot but someone will take a chance on him if he walks. Wouldn't be top money but in that area. 

Washington did a pretty good job after getting thrown in during a big game and to be an important contributor. When I was saying Bigsby made mistakes and knocked his confidence, Washington made some big plays and that seemed to help him. Its one of those tough situations. You don't want to be using your 4th/5th WR unless you have to but when you do, you need him to play to your 2nd/3rd WR standard and if they haven't had the snaps or practice, that's a tough thing to ask. We had a lot of young WR we kept from camp and Washington and Jones were the only ones that seemed to get the opportunity when Kirk and Zay went down.

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The last years draft class outside Harrison seems like a total failure. It seems like all of the draft picks stink.

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The last years draft class outside Harrison seems like a total failure. It seems like all of the draft picks stink.

Yeah, no one outside of Harrison stepped up significantly for whatever reason.  It's a good thing careers aren't made by rookie year performance.  Let's see what some of these guys do next year.

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Guys, I posted a bunch of stats in this string previously so I'll try not to repeat that. When the season began some had over the top expectations. (14-3, 12-5 etc) A few of us knew the O-Line was a defect. That defect was made worse by the suspension of Cam and practicing with the Loins. Ye a before that practice we were in good health. We came back all beat up. I believe Scherff's ankle issue began after that. (the reason their were fights on Wednesday/Thursday) Next the D-line took hits, Smoot was coming off injury and Hamilton contracted a mystery disease. The biggest thing was we went from a 4th place schedule to a first place schedule before we were ready for it.

The Jags played a 1st place schedule. The Texans a 4th, Colts a 3rd and the Titans a 2nd. This meant NONE of those teams played the 49ers, Bills, or KC. The previous season I maintain we were a 6-3-8 team with the 3 being "lucky" win games. Come on, how often does a ball bounce off a helmet for a pick 6. We have since 2000 played a first place schedule only twice. Both times we were 6-10. This year's 9-8 was hard earned, but except for us beating ourselves would have been at least 11-6.

Don't get me wrong, the loss to the Titans gutted me Sunday. I was screaming kick the field goal at the TV. Now that it is done we need to totally rebuild the O;line. We have 3 offensive linemen, Cam and Harrison with Little as backup. Looking at the free agent market coming up there is a dearth of possibilities as good big o-linemen seem to be scarce. So we will need to draft some good guys. We also need 1 or 2 BIG N NASTY D-linemen as I cannot see us having a lot of cap room for big guys on either line At least productive ones, we have plenty of the other type already.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

I don't know if this has been posted yet, but Chris Long is exactly correct. Perfect analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX2wjF46P6w

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I don't know if this has been posted yet, but Chris Long is exactly correct.  Perfect analysis. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX2wjF46P6w

“They had a bad plan all year and then injuries made it worse.”

Bingo

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I don't know if this has been posted yet, but Chris Long is exactly correct.  Perfect analysis. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX2wjF46P6w

Why do I get the impression that firing Caldwell was only a red meat gesture? Injuries exacerbated a bad plan but only the DC gets canned? Yes, I realize the defense had its issues, but the other side of the ball had bigger issues. If the offense isn’t addressed with some staff adjustments, we can only expect the same next season. 

Apparently, relationships aren’t impeding Doug from dropping the hammer because they’re saying on the radio this morning that he and Caldwell were close friends. Why is Press Taylor so special? There’s some weird personal dynamics going on which seems to cloud Doug’s judgement.

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I don't know if this has been posted yet, but Chris Long is exactly correct.  Perfect analysis. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX2wjF46P6w

Why do I get the impression that firing Caldwell was only a red meat gesture? Injuries exacerbated a bad plan but only the DC gets canned? Yes, I realize the defense had its issues, but the other side of the ball had bigger issues. If the offense isn’t addressed with some staff adjustments, we can only expect the same next season. 

Apparently, relationships aren’t impeding Doug from dropping the hammer because they’re saying on the radio this morning that he and Caldwell were close friends. Why is Press Taylor so special? There’s some weird personal dynamics going on which seems to cloud Doug’s judgement.

Perhaps Doug thinks the problem on the defensive side was coaching and the problem in the offensive side was personnel.  I am pretty sure our inability to run the ball is because of the offensive linemen who are out there, not the coaching.  On the other hand, maybe Doug thinks we had the players on defense to do a lot better.  

Of course, this is all just speculation.  Doug Pederson is a lot closer to the situation than I am.

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Why do I get the impression that firing Caldwell was only a red meat gesture? Injuries exacerbated a bad plan but only the DC gets canned? Yes, I realize the defense had its issues, but the other side of the ball had bigger issues. If the offense isn’t addressed with some staff adjustments, we can only expect the same next season. 

Apparently, relationships aren’t impeding Doug from dropping the hammer because they’re saying on the radio this morning that he and Caldwell were close friends. Why is Press Taylor so special? There’s some weird personal dynamics going on which seems to cloud Doug’s judgement.

Perhaps Doug thinks the problem on the defensive side was coaching and the problem in the offensive side was personnel.  I am pretty sure our inability to run the ball is because of the offensive linemen who are out there, not the coaching.  On the other hand, maybe Doug thinks we had the players on defense to do a lot better.  

Of course, this is all just speculation.  Doug Pederson is a lot closer to the situation than I am.

I think Doug was a part of the offensive game planning and he sees Taylor calling and coaching the way he wants. Doug was less involved in the defensive planning but reportedly had to step in several times this year to make Caldwell change up what he was doing. That's the difference in perspective, he doesn't want Taylor to do it differently, he wants the players to do it right. Of course he could still make changes and I wouldn't care one way or the other; bring in Reich, bring in Klint Kubiak, bring in Zac Robinson...I don't have a dog in that fight. It simply won't matter unless we fix the personnel problem.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato