I hope he does fix it, but I just am seeing a lot of people RN acting like he dramatically changed after injury when that just is not the case. The defense got incredibly worse tho, that's what actually happened. 

We went from holding Mahomes to 17 pts to letting backups torch us for 30.

Very true, people are painting a narrative like it was the injuries why he played so poorly. He has  big question marks on his game.

Acknowledging a significant injury affected Trevor's play isn't an attempt at exonerating the defense who also significantly contributed to the late season collapse and gave up way too many points down the stretch.  

Trevor and the offense need to get better next year than what we saw from them this year.  Full stop.  

The defense needs to be better on the whole next year.  Full Stop.  

The reasons why they weren't better this year will be debated all offseason, but this need by some to shoot down that Trevor was apparently less accurate and more turnover prone in the final 4 games is just... weird.  It's like they feel threatened if an injury might legitimately explain away some of their conclusions about him and the season.  Maybe it would have been better for all involved had he had a season ending injury that night.

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Very true, people are painting a narrative like it was the injuries why he played so poorly. He has  big question marks on his game.

Acknowledging a significant injury affected Trevor's play isn't an attempt at exonerating the defense who also significantly contributed to the late season collapse and gave up way too many points down the stretch.  

Trevor and the offense need to get better next year than what we saw from them this year.  Full stop.  

The defense needs to be better on the whole next year.  Full Stop.  

The reasons why they weren't better this year will be debated all offseason, but this need by some to shoot down that Trevor was apparently less accurate and more turnover prone in the final 4 games is just... weird.  It's like they feel threatened if an injury might legitimately explain away some of their conclusions about him and the season.  Maybe it would have been better for all involved had he had a season ending injury that night.

Its more than that. The dude is a league leader in turnovers. Eisen says it best around 6:30 in

https://youtu.be/oZlQGdd5OHQ?si=NVQrgbsWjmxAHi1u

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Acknowledging a significant injury affected Trevor's play isn't an attempt at exonerating the defense who also significantly contributed to the late season collapse and gave up way too many points down the stretch.  

Trevor and the offense need to get better next year than what we saw from them this year.  Full stop.  

The defense needs to be better on the whole next year.  Full Stop.  

The reasons why they weren't better this year will be debated all offseason, but this need by some to shoot down that Trevor was apparently less accurate and more turnover prone in the final 4 games is just... weird.  It's like they feel threatened if an injury might legitimately explain away some of their conclusions about him and the season.  Maybe it would have been better for all involved had he had a season ending injury that night.

Its more than that. The dude is a league leader in turnovers. Eisen says it best around 6:30 in

https://youtu.be/oZlQGdd5OHQ?si=NVQrgbsWjmxAHi1u

I'll watch the Eisen clip in a bit, but back to the final 4 games.  Was he less accurate and more turnover prone than normal in your view?

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I agree, feel free to go back and watch his play. These stats don't even include the 12 fumbles, makes him look even better than he was.

I know you like facts/stats NYC, can you tell me a time where Trevor threw for 3 or more TDs without throwing a pick.. or better yet, without throwing at least 2-3 picks?


I'll wait.

Your question here has nothing at all to do with whether injuries affected his performance this year. 

They did. 

Without doubt. 

You can cherry pick whatever stats you want. He clearly struggled after the ankle, concussion and shoulder more than he did before those injuries. I don't have a single ounce of doubt about that and I'm also very disappointed in his mistakes this year on the whole despite the injuries. 

You can be critical of his play without trying to wipe away the reality of playing hurt from the equation.

This is the way I currently feel about Trevor's performance this season. These injuries hurt him both physically and mentally during the 2nd half of the season. No excuses for the dumb fumbles and interceptions. He obviously played like a below average quarterback following these injuries. His mechanics and judgement were clearly worse, however, and this does go back to the injuries. Lawrence was able to overcome the terrible offensive line last season due to his ability to thrown on the run or simply to scramble for rushing yards. His injuries did not allow that to happen this season and the loss of Kirk and Zay Jones for several weeks didn't help either!

I may be wrong about Lawrence, but he is the least of my worries as long as the new general manager (I beg you, Shad) addresses the offensive line. Baalke is not one to admit his mistakes and I don't see this changing in the future. If Khan maintains the status quo, our fans are just going to get more heartache and Lawrence will never become the "generational quarterback" many predicted after the Jags drafted him.

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Are you altering your initial claim that TL was the same guy from week 1 to week 18 into "QB injury didn't affect the W/L record?" 

I mean - the latter is much harder to prove, but both are kind of pointless pursuits. 

If you've got some quality gripes about the QB - post them. 

Trying to say his mistakes after injury weren't due to injury just seems silly as [BLEEP].

Shouldn't this whole thread be merged into the Trevor discussion thread and cjb warned for his dumb trolling?

It won’t work, JaguarMVP will mysteriously reappear after a long hiatus asking for his account to be reinstated

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You seem to be the happiest person on the board right now. You backtrack quicker than Michael Jackson.

Just remember next year when Trevor is healthy and playing well again, all these ridiculous posts will be bought up.

Enjoy your Trevor bashing. You've had to wait long enough for it.

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Oh dear lord -  you listed a whole season of just a few stats leaving out tons of others - that is cherry picking stats
Why do I need to explain this? LOL

Why would anyone say he was carrying the defense early when the defense were giving him more opportunity with turnovers for the first  9 weeks??  Your claim of what you've supposedly seen form 6-7 people seems dubious at best, and if not those people don't understand what this defense did this year in the early weeks. 

He made more mistakes after the injuries piled up. 
You can quote all the stats you'd like. He did.  
I know what I saw. 
He made plenty before that too -  and he needs to improve in multiple areas, but trying to erase the injury component to his late season play is just asinine. Fools errand, and dumb hill for you to die on here.

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Also - you already had this crap shot down in another thread


https://www.duvalpride.com/showthread.ph...pid1602894

Trevors injurys did not change the teams fortune.

Man I needed this comic relief.  This comment is ludicrous.  I’m nominating it as the stupidest post of the year.  Quite an accomplishment considering the drivel posted on DP.  Congratulations!

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I agree that Lawrence needs to fix the turnovers and if he does hes great

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No Fun

Its more than that. The dude is a league leader in turnovers. Eisen says it best around 6:30 in

https://youtu.be/oZlQGdd5OHQ?si=NVQrgbsWjmxAHi1u

I'll watch the Eisen clip in a bit, but back to the final 4 games.  Was he less accurate and more turnover prone than normal in your view?

Yes the injuries affected his throwing the last 4 games. The issue was he was not great his previous 12 games before that. Point blank he is a middle of the road Qb right now.

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Trevors injurys did not change the teams fortune.

Man I needed this comic relief.  This comment is ludicrous.  I’m nominating it as the stupidest post of the year.  Quite an accomplishment considering the drivel posted on DP.  Congratulations!

People claiming he's more turnover prone in a 4 game period because he was hurt is laughable. He leads in the entire league in turnovers since he got here. Him playing bum football for 4 weeks dosen't mean he wasn't playing bad football for 13 weeks.

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Man I needed this comic relief.  This comment is ludicrous.  I’m nominating it as the stupidest post of the year.  Quite an accomplishment considering the drivel posted on DP.  Congratulations!

People claiming he's more turnover prone in a 4 game period because he was hurt is laughable. He leads in the entire league in turnovers since he got here. Him playing bum football for 4 weeks dosen't mean he wasn't playing bad football for 13 weeks.

He wasn’t playing bad for 13 weeks. 

Up until the bengals game, he had two truly bad games. Texans and the 49ers. 

But keep trolling. I’m sure if he improves next year you’ll claim you felt different then now. And we will be here to hammer you as you do deserve it now.

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I'll watch the Eisen clip in a bit, but back to the final 4 games.  Was he less accurate and more turnover prone than normal in your view?

Yes the injuries affected his throwing the last 4 games. The issue was he was not great his previous 12 games before that. Point blank he is a middle of the road Qb right now.

People claiming he's more turnover prone in a 4 game period because he was hurt is laughable. He leads in the entire league in turnovers since he got here. Him playing bum football for 4 weeks dosen't mean he wasn't playing bad football for 13 weeks.

He wasn’t playing bad for 13 weeks. 

Up until the bengals game, he had two truly bad games. Texans and the 49ers. 

But keep trolling. I’m sure if he improves next year you’ll claim you felt different then now. And we will be here to hammer you as you do deserve it now.

Bro if I took his game logs, and moved the stats around for each game you wouldn't know the difference. 

His stat line is consistently 1 td 1 int 2 td 2 int 0 td 1 int 

He has literally never thrown 3 TDs without 3 ints in his career here. He's not been good at all, what you just described were two HORRIBLE games versus his below average typical games. 

He's not been elite, he hasn't even been good and you're an absolute fool if you suggest otherwise. He's had 3-4 "Great games" in his career, most of which came last season.

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Let's say it now at the Y M C A

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Trevor did not suddenly fall off a cliff after injuries. The biggest change from 8-3 to 9-8 was the defense either got exposed, or got worse. Trevor was the same guy from week 1 to week 18. That excuse is not valid.

No way dude.  Check out the interception numbers. 7 in the first 11 games then 7 in the last 5 games. Less than one INT per game then more than one INT per game.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Shouldn't this whole thread be merged into the Trevor discussion thread and cjb warned for his dumb trolling?

It won’t work, JaguarMVP will mysteriously reappear after a long hiatus asking for his account to be reinstated

You might have noticed that LVP already got back. Just look for ALL CAPS and too many exclamation points!!!!!!!!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Acknowledging a significant injury affected Trevor's play isn't an attempt at exonerating the defense who also significantly contributed to the late season collapse and gave up way too many points down the stretch.  

Trevor and the offense need to get better next year than what we saw from them this year.  Full stop.  

The defense needs to be better on the whole next year.  Full Stop.  

The reasons why they weren't better this year will be debated all offseason, but this need by some to shoot down that Trevor was apparently less accurate and more turnover prone in the final 4 games is just... weird.  It's like they feel threatened if an injury might legitimately explain away some of their conclusions about him and the season.  Maybe it would have been better for all involved had he had a season ending injury that night.

Its more than that. The dude is a league leader in turnovers. Eisen says it best around 6:30 in

https://youtu.be/oZlQGdd5OHQ?si=NVQrgbsWjmxAHi1u

Eisen's take was reasonable given where we are and how we got here.  I don't really care to argue the point further, but I don't necessarily follow you on why this clip was a response to my post though.

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Trevor did not suddenly fall off a cliff after injuries. The biggest change from 8-3 to 9-8 was the defense either got exposed, or got worse. Trevor was the same guy from week 1 to week 18. That excuse is not valid.

No way dude.  Check out the interception numbers. 7 in the first 11 games then 7 in the last 5 games. Less than one INT per game then more than one INT per game.

His TD numbers were better during that stretch too. So was he better or worse?

In week 10 when we had a good record, he had 10 tds 7 ints and 6 fumbles.

Stop.

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Acknowledging a significant injury affected Trevor's play isn't an attempt at exonerating the defense who also significantly contributed to the late season collapse and gave up way too many points down the stretch.  

Trevor and the offense need to get better next year than what we saw from them this year.  Full stop.  

The defense needs to be better on the whole next year.  Full Stop.  

The reasons why they weren't better this year will be debated all offseason, but this need by some to shoot down that Trevor was apparently less accurate and more turnover prone in the final 4 games is just... weird.  It's like they feel threatened if an injury might legitimately explain away some of their conclusions about him and the season.  Maybe it would have been better for all involved had he had a season ending injury that night.

Its more than that. The dude is a league leader in turnovers. Eisen says it best around 6:30 in

https://youtu.be/oZlQGdd5OHQ?si=NVQrgbsWjmxAHi1u

Yes the injuries affected his throwing the last 4 games. The issue was he was not great his previous 12 games before that. Point blank he is a middle of the road Qb right now.

He wasn’t playing bad for 13 weeks. 

Up until the bengals game, he had two truly bad games. Texans and the 49ers. 

But keep trolling. I’m sure if he improves next year you’ll claim you felt different then now. And we will be here to hammer you as you do deserve it now.

Bro if I took his game logs, and moved the stats around for each game you wouldn't know the difference. 

His stat line is consistently 1 td 1 int 2 td 2 int 0 td 1 int 

He has literally never thrown 3 TDs without 3 ints in his career here. He's not been good at all, what you just described were two HORRIBLE games versus his below average typical games. 

He's not been elite, he hasn't even been good and you're an absolute fool if you suggest otherwise. He's had 3-4 "Great games" in his career, most of which came last season.

So just to play along. What is y'alls solution for 2024?

Trade a bunch of picks to Chicago for the No.1 or Justin Fields? Sign a retread FA QB? Draft his "replacement" at Jag current pick? Please advise.

If he is as bad as you are stating, they should move on from him; correct?

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Lawrence needs to work on a few things this off season:

1. Ball security.
2. Protecting himself in the field of play.
3. Being a bit more checkdown Charlie in games.

Other than that, he has everything else going for him. Size, athleticism, arm strength and toughness. I think there's actually a sweet spot for this kid too when it comes to pass attempts. When he had 29 or less pass attempts in 2023, they went 1 - 3. When he had 40 or more pass attempts, they went 0 - 5. When he had 30 - 39 pass attempts, they went 7 - 0.

They were 8 - 1 this past season when he had a QB rating of 90.0+ or higher, the one game they lost? It was the game he couldn't finish due to injury with the Bengals. He had six games this year with a QB rating of 100+.

I genuinely don't think he's the be all, end all issue on this football team, but, again, we've now asked this guy to play perfect football for two years in a row on a team with a head coach that has a gambling problem, his third offensive coordinator in a row, no running game and a below average offensive line.

He has plenty of space to work with before he reaches his ceiling. If Baalke can dig his head out of his [BLEEP], and, Taylor and Pederson can give the kid a break in the running game? I think we'll get a high end Alex Smith type football player out of him, the one where he stays with his original team and doesn't become a competent passer with his second stint elsewhere.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Lawrence needs to work on a few things this off season:

1. Ball security.
2. Protecting himself in the field of play.
3. Being a bit more checkdown Charlie in games.

Other than that, he has everything else going for him. Size, athleticism, arm strength and toughness. I think there's actually a sweet spot for this kid too when it comes to pass attempts. When he had 29 or less pass attempts in 2023, they went 1 - 3. When he had 40 or more pass attempts, they went 0 - 5. When he had 30 - 39 pass attempts, they went 7 - 0.

They were 8 - 1 this past season when he had a QB rating of 90.0+ or higher, the one game they lost? It was the game he couldn't finish due to injury with the Bengals. He had six games this year with a QB rating of 100+.

I genuinely don't think he's the be all, end all issue on this football team, but, again, we've now asked this guy to play perfect football for two years in a row on a team with a head coach that has a gambling problem, his third offensive coordinator in a row, no running game and a below average offensive line.

He has plenty of space to work with before he reaches his ceiling. If Baalke can dig his head out of his [BLEEP], and, Taylor and Pederson can give the kid a break in the running game? I think we'll get a high end Alex Smith type football player out of him, the one where he stays with his original team and doesn't become a competent passer with his second stint elsewhere.

Couldn't disagree more with #3.

Once you turn him into checkdown Charlie, there is no reason to have him on the team. Just about any QB of the street can do that.

What makes Lawrence special is his ability to push the ball downfield (which this team couldn't do because the line was garbage) and hit those 2nd level windows. The second he stops doing that, he stops being special.

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