Just out of curiosity,  how many non-college educated individuals do you hire at your place of employment? Gonna assume not many, but curious to hear.

How do you suggest the federal government "stop" universities from creating student debt? Who determines the fair price of an education? Do you want the government to determine that?

My organization has over 15,000 people employed, roughly 65% have a college education as you would demand of a health care organization. In my division where we do administrative work we have a 15/85 split of college degree to non-college degree among 280 or so people. 

And absolutely, if the government is going to hand money over to the universities then they can damn well set the price of tuition. Governor DeSantis is doing some very good work in this area in our state, with the intent to provide a "quality, affordable education" unfettered by "ideological activists and political organizations determining what they should learn."

So is this a state issue or a federal issue? I can tell you that good state colleges are extremely difficult to get into these days if you are in state. Back in my day, FSU was a backup school if you couldn't get in anywhere else and now it's difficult to get into. If states would mandate a certain percentage of instate applicant acceptance, that would be ideal.

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My organization has over 15,000 people employed, roughly 65% have a college education as you would demand of a health care organization. In my division where we do administrative work we have a 15/85 split of college degree to non-college degree among 280 or so people. 

And absolutely, if the government is going to hand money over to the universities then they can damn well set the price of tuition. Governor DeSantis is doing some very good work in this area in our state, with the intent to provide a "quality, affordable education" unfettered by "ideological activists and political organizations determining what they should learn."

So is this a state issue or a federal issue? I can tell you that good state colleges are extremely difficult to get into these days if you are in state. Back in my day, FSU was a backup school if you couldn't get in anywhere else and now it's difficult to get into. If states would mandate a certain percentage of instate applicant acceptance, that would be ideal.

It's federal because Bush 43 and Obama made it so. I'm in agreement with you about state schools. The point is we can find solutions, but just flat calling kids who got suckered by a broken system names doesn't help. I don't agree with total loan forgiveness but I think it can be better.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

So is this a state issue or a federal issue? I can tell you that good state colleges are extremely difficult to get into these days if you are in state. Back in my day, FSU was a backup school if you couldn't get in anywhere else and now it's difficult to get into. If states would mandate a certain percentage of instate applicant acceptance, that would be ideal.

It's federal because Bush 43 and Obama made it so. I'm in agreement with you about state schools. The point is we can find solutions, but just flat calling kids who got suckered by a broken system names doesn't help. I don't agree with total loan forgiveness but I think it can be better.

We differ on what you call suckered. A UNF kid choosing to live beyond his means using his student loan for a condo at the beach and an unlimited bar tab at the Ritz while choosing a major that is routinely mocked and unemployable isn't my financial problem.  Also, I don't recall seeing you mention parents anywhere in this equation.

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The number one thing for me is every ounce of forgiveness given to former students who ended up in lower income jobs needs to be matched with an ounce of pain for the schools that take so much money and fail to provide sufficiently useful educations. If we're talking about underpaid public servants like teachers or public defenders or doctors serving underserved populations for free, that should be an ongoing grant program of some sort. If we're talking about degrees in engineering or business where the careers should be lucrative, and the school fails to set them up right, the schools should feel pain for that.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

The number one thing for me is every ounce of forgiveness given to former students who ended up in lower income jobs needs to be matched with an ounce of pain for the schools that take so much money and fail to provide sufficiently useful educations.  If we're talking about underpaid public servants like teachers or public defenders or doctors serving underserved populations for free, that should be an ongoing grant program of some sort.  If we're talking about degrees in engineering or business where the careers should be lucrative, and the school fails to set them up right, the schools should feel pain for that.

Shall the college go to work for them too after graduation and earn a living? Where does the responsibility of a school stop?

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Typically American to believe the only value to an education is in earnings potential.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Typically American to believe the only value to an education is in earnings potential.

It's that attitude right there that got these people into this mess in the first place.

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The number one thing for me is every ounce of forgiveness given to former students who ended up in lower income jobs needs to be matched with an ounce of pain for the schools that take so much money and fail to provide sufficiently useful educations.  If we're talking about underpaid public servants like teachers or public defenders or doctors serving underserved populations for free, that should be an ongoing grant program of some sort.  If we're talking about degrees in engineering or business where the careers should be lucrative, and the school fails to set them up right, the schools should feel pain for that.

Shall the college go to work for them too after graduation and earn a living? Where does the responsibility of a school stop?

The amount of loans that each new student at such a school can receive per year should be reduced.  They would have to either reduce tuition or their enrollment would drop.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Typically American to believe the only value to an education is in earnings potential.

I was clear that any policy needs to have a carveout for people who will use their education for community service.  I said education needs to be useful, not lucrative.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Shall the college go to work for them too after graduation and earn a living? Where does the responsibility of a school stop?

The amount of loans that each new student at such a school can receive per year should be reduced.  They would have to either reduce tuition or their enrollment would drop.

Kind of agree, but tuition isn't one size fits all. Also, if they have the means, parents should invest early in prepaid state plans or 529's. The role of parenting seems to get ignored around this topic when they are arguably the root cause.

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Typically American to believe the only value to an education is in earnings potential.

It's that attitude right there that got these people into this mess in the first place.

That you don't see yourself gazing in the mirror speaks to the narrowness of your vision. It also speaks to our plummeting place among the Nations.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It's that attitude right there that got these people into this mess in the first place.

That you don't see yourself gazing in the mirror speaks to the narrowness of your vision. It also speaks to our plummeting place among the Nations.

Our plummeting place among nations begins LONG before college. Maybe you should focus your efforts and tax dollars there.

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That you don't see yourself gazing in the mirror speaks to the narrowness of your vision. It also speaks to our plummeting place among the Nations.

Our plummeting place among nations begins LONG before college. Maybe you should focus your efforts and tax dollars there.

Interesting, my tax dollars already go there. You're starting to get it!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Typically American to believe the only value to an education is in earnings potential.

My mom was the first in her family to go to college and she went to nursing school for her initial two-year degree. In all of my formative years I was never told college was for anything other than to get a degree and get a good job to turn into a career. I was not the college type so I didn't go though I did take classes to be a certified CNA and a phlebotomist. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that anyone told me college isn't to get a job but to learn about and experience things. 

I got paid to learn and experience while in the Army.

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Yeah... college can and should be about getting a good education to get a good job. That's it.

I was the first person in my family to get a college degree. I just assumed every major would net me a good job, so I chose poli-sci, because that's what seemed interesting to me. After I got out of college and realized entry level jobs were 23k, I was pissed. Ended up getting a teaching gig at 42, but I would never have pursued that degree had I known how worthless it was. That has only gotten worse as they have added more fields of study to accommodate low-IQ people who are entering college due to abundance of loans.

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Our plummeting place among nations begins LONG before college. Maybe you should focus your efforts and tax dollars there.

Interesting, my tax dollars already go there. You're starting to get it!

How's that working? Don't get dizzy going in circles.

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Interesting, my tax dollars already go there. You're starting to get it!

How's that working? Don't get dizzy going in circles.

It used to work quite well, much like the university system. Today it still does if you're in a favorable position going in, much like the university system.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

And again, just so we don't' get derailed by SC1's hostility, my position is not total forgiveness or free college, it's simply that we should do something to fix the very broken system put in place in the 90s. It's clear that we made an error and we shouldn't continue down this same path hoping something will change. We should offer help for all those people who were damaged by the error and do something better going forward.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

And again, just so we don't' get derailed by SC1's hostility, my position is not total forgiveness or free college, it's simply that we should do something to fix the very broken system put in place in the 90s. It's clear that we made an error and we shouldn't continue down this same path hoping something will change. We should offer help for all those people who were damaged by the error and do something better going forward.

So, no specific solution? Just pointing out a broad sweeping issue we should throw money at with no proposed plan. Man, you really are officially a liberal, lol. The band-aid on a gaping wound approach has proven to work. 

I'll help you out. It starts at home with the parents.

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And again, just so we don't' get derailed by SC1's hostility, my position is not total forgiveness or free college, it's simply that we should do something to fix the very broken system put in place in the 90s. It's clear that we made an error and we shouldn't continue down this same path hoping something will change. We should offer help for all those people who were damaged by the error and do something better going forward.

So, no specific solution? Just pointing out a broad sweeping issue we should throw money at with no proposed plan. Man, you really are officially a liberal, lol. The band-aid on a gaping wound approach has proven to work. 

I'll help you out. It starts at home with the parents.

And you're an idiot if you think that's what I'm saying. We can A. institute a zero interest repayment for all open balances immediately. B. Pass federal legislation to incentivize state governments to follow the path that RDS is currently pursuing, and C. Use federal loan system leverage to force universities to a. control costs and b. spend their endowments on reducing costs to current students. But nah, you're just more about making sure that college kids suffer their bad choice to pursue a college education because they're nothing but despised blue hair leftists in your little mind. That really helps the country out a bunch. Mr. "It's the parent's fault" is the one who has no [BLEEP] clue of anything to do that's useful to solving the problem.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato