My question really is with the right GM and head coach how many people here think this can turn around next year? How many think it will take 2-3 years minimum? 


I know a lot of this depends on what you think of Trevor… but even if you are one of those who think Trevor is just an ok QB there can still be a situation where you may think if we just had a competent GM with the right coach we could build a good enough roster next year.


The biggest obvious holes I see are at:
Defense:
DT
S and CB opposite Tyson Campbell who has been often injured early in his career.
Depth at DE

Do we have any supers? I can’t say that Allen is a super to be honest . He had a really good year, and is a good football player when utilized correctly. But super ? I don’t think so 

Trevon- lots of potential and again a really really good football player when utilized well, can he be a super? 

Campbell- good player but don’t think he is a super 

Foye and Ventrell- both very very good players IMO. Both now have had injuries. 


Offense: biggest Holes
LT if we don’t get walker back, and not enough seen yet to say he is the answer 
RG for sure 
Overall physicality of line against quality competition. Tanks explosiveness can get us some big plays. But against good teams we can’t run when we need to.

One potential weakness will be other weapons for Trevor if we don’t decide to keep Engram or Kirk. I do like Parker but not sure yet if he will be anything more than an occasional spark yet.

Supers? 
Potentially BTJ I think is
Trevor is not so far, but he has his really good moments. but I for one still believe with the right fit he can be very good.
Tank- not enough in the passing game to be considered a super for me.. but seems to be a very good RUNNING back
Engram- really good player potentially
Kirk-Good consistent player potentially
Anton- lot still to prove 

Good kicker and punter 


So what do you think ? See it the same way? Can we make up for the deficiencies this team has in one offseason? Or are we still too far away in your eyes ?

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A good start would be to not let Baalke or Nielsen set foot in the stadium again. Canning Baalke for a FO culture improvement and Ryan Nielsen for, well, you know.

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In this league, you can turn things around quickly if you get the right coach and GM. The current regime doesn't maximum the talent of the players and put them in positions to succeed. Look at the D - is it everyone that has regressed this season, or is the D coordinator just not getting the most out them?

I think the Jags could compete for a playoff spot next year IF they get do a clean sweep and get rid of the entire front office and coaching staff. No half measures.

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Engram is a good example of a player putting in the work. He was known for dropped passes, so he worked hard to improve both his route running and catching, being one of the first players at practice and one of the last to leave. If you get a few more players to take that "next step" in development then those one score losses like we've had in three games this year become wins.

But if they bring back Baalke and Pedersen - no playoffs next year.

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Agree with both, and this thread is meant under the assumption that we win a maximum of 4 -5 games and clean house.

Which I personally think will happen.

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Make this team a consistent playoff team?

• Need a good Strong Safety - might need a FS too depending on how Cisco finishes the year
  
• Need another corner to play opposite Tyson (Brown should compete with a new addition) Darby can walk
  
• Need a new scheme and DC for the defense - Secondary is too heavily tasked in this scheme unless your are stacked with coverage talent
  
• Put Lloyd on the trade block - Miller and Oluokun are your starters at ILB when in nickel
  

• Need a new RG 
  
• Need to make a decision at LT 
  
• Upgrade the Z receiver - Davis a'int it
  
• Need a staff that can find a way to work all the stupid mistakes out of this offense 
  

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Make this team a consistent playoff team?

• Need a good Strong Safety - might need a FS too depending on how Cisco finishes the year
  
• Need another corner to play opposite Tyson (Brown should compete with a new addition) Darby can walk
  
• Need a new scheme and DC for the defense - Secondary is too heavily tasked in this scheme unless your are stacked with coverage talent
  
• Put Lloyd on the trade block - Miller and Oluokun are your starters at ILB when in nickel
  

• Need a new RG 
  
• Need to make a decision at LT 
  
• Upgrade the Z receiver - Davis a'int it
  
• Need a staff that can find a way to work all the stupid mistakes out of this offense 
  

I agree with all of this, but I do think it’s a lot to fix in one offseason and there are some areas we can address that can make up for some of the others.

For example on d… better DC, and  if we can get a very good DT to collapse the pocket , and some serviceable depth behind our d front this offseason, then walker and Allen become better players even if we can only address one of the holes in the secondary and our front seven becomes a big problem for teams.  

And on o if we keep Engram and Kirk and fix RG become more physical and resign little.. then we can live with Davis until a better more affordable option comes along. 

But I would def kick Darby and Davis to the curb if possible.

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A very competent gm head coach combo could make this team a consistent playoff contender next year. The league is designed for the quality of talent to be pretty equitable from team to team. It's coaching and a couple difference makers that separate the consistently good teams and everyone else.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

A very competent gm head coach combo could make this team a consistent playoff contender next year. The league is designed for the quality of talent to be pretty equitable from team to team. It's coaching and a couple difference makers that separate the consistently good teams and everyone else.

I think we have the difference makers too. We need a GM that can staff an entire team to support those difference makers (Trevor, BTJ, etc), and a coach that can scheme and motivate the players to the next level.

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A very competent gm head coach combo could make this team a consistent playoff contender next year. The league is designed for the quality of talent to be pretty equitable from team to team. It's coaching and a couple difference makers that separate the consistently good teams and everyone else.

Correct. Just like the texans. A great GM and coach turn this team into a superbowl contender in a couple of years. A good GM and coach turn us into a perennial playoffs team in one year.

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We've seen players and coaches on this team look really good and look really bad. What the reason for the big drop off this year exactly is we don't really know. I think we're stuck in the conundrum 'do the players make the system or does the system make the players'

We do have talent on this roster, a lot of players aren't playing at their standards and we're seeing lots of bad football and mistakes. I see us a bit like the Rams under Fisher. Have some good weeks, have some bad weeks but are a middle of the Pack team and then McVay came in with a modern system and attitude and they suddenly clicked.

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How far is Pluto? That’s how far.

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I am very biased, but this team could definitely be in the playoffs next season with the following plan:

1. Fire Baalke after this season.

2. Fire Pederson and bring in Ben Johnson from the Lions, a great offensive mind.

3. Draft Malachi Starks in round 1 to solidify the secondary. Good chance he'll be available when the Jags pick due to lack of respect for safeties value to a defense.

4. Follow up the Starks pick with an interior lineman to replace Scherff. There are some good ones like Donovan Jackson who might be available.

5. Add another pass rusher and keep Armstead in the interior DL where he is much better.


I could go on, but these 5 moves would get this team on the right path.

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I would get rid of Baalke and Nielsen now. They're a drag on the team. Do the rest of the housecleaning in January.

That's my wholly uneducated opinion.

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1 Trent Baalke.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

As long as a piece of string

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. I think we're stuck in the conundrum 'do the players make the system or does the system make the players'

We do have talent on this roster, a lot of players aren't playing at their standards and we're seeing lots of bad football and mistakes.

And we've got some talented players playing a position or scheme that don't maximize their talents. Goes back to the broader problem that our front office and coaches aren't on the same page of what type a team we are. We have a hodge podge of talent and coaches that don't align. For example why we hired a defensive coordinator that doesn't blitz, constantly rotates, and plays a ton of man yet we went into the season with only two true defensive ends. 3 if you count the 7th round rookie. Sometimes our moves feel reactionary. Immediate patch of a perceived problem when the real issue is there is no idea of what kind of team this is.

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________________________________________________
Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

. I think we're stuck in the conundrum 'do the players make the system or does the system make the players'

We do have talent on this roster, a lot of players aren't playing at their standards and we're seeing lots of bad football and mistakes.

And we've got some talented players playing a position or scheme that don't maximize their talents. Goes back to the broader problem that our front office and coaches aren't on the same page of what type a team we are. We have a hodge podge of talent and coaches that don't align. For example why we hired a defensive coordinator that doesn't blitz, constantly rotates, and plays a ton of man yet we went into the season with only two true defensive ends. 3 if you count the 7th round rookie. Sometimes our moves feel reactionary. Immediate patch of a perceived problem when the real issue is there is no idea of what kind of team this is.

I don't usually put much stock in this stuff, but the bolded is real. 

Even if the the rumors of mistrust between HC and GM are all just fan fiction -- the result of the two of them making decisions collectively about personnel each offseason is leaving the schemes on both sides of the ball ambiguous and rudderless.

No identity, no focus, no clear direction. 

You can see that Doug is adept at identifying certain skillsets on his roster and taking advantage of them against opponents with the right kinds of defensive weaknesses. But they began year three of his tenure by making a dramatic shift in the passing attack despite not having an OL prepared to execute the new task of protecting during exponentially more deep passes and play action attempts. 

I like the aggressiveness of the new passing attack, and it has kinda' worked in 3 of the 7 games, but the failure level in the other contests feels pretty unforgivable to me.  And it feels like a staff grasping at straws instead of installing and instilling a clear vision.

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Seriously, Baalke and Nielsen out now. They're baggage. This team might get focused for the first time this season. If not, oh well. It was just Baalke and Nielsen.

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. I think we're stuck in the conundrum 'do the players make the system or does the system make the players'

We do have talent on this roster, a lot of players aren't playing at their standards and we're seeing lots of bad football and mistakes.

And we've got some talented players playing a position or scheme that don't maximize their talents. Goes back to the broader problem that our front office and coaches aren't on the same page of what type a team we are. We have a hodge podge of talent and coaches that don't align. For example why we hired a defensive coordinator that doesn't blitz, constantly rotates, and plays a ton of man yet we went into the season with only two true defensive ends. 3 if you count the 7th round rookie. Sometimes our moves feel reactionary. Immediate patch of a perceived problem when the real issue is there is no idea of what kind of team this is.

Great post. You worded it better than I could have and identified what I feel our biggest problem is. It seems so simple. Get a GM to build a team that suits the HC's style and personality of the team. They work closely so should know what each other want but so many teams have this disconnect between them. 

I have no idea what the plan was for the D this year and if the changes to scheme matched up with recruitment and what we currently have players wise at any point but when you watch them it's such a mess. There are good players on the D but it just doesn't work right now.

You can see why owners would let GM's hire the HC they wanted and would stay out of it.

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A good start would be to not let Baalke or Nielsen set foot in the stadium again. Canning Baalke for a FO culture improvement and Ryan Nielsen for, well, you know.

this

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