Then what's our problem?

 


Well, our kicker was good from 40-50. It was shorter that caused the problems.

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Sabastian Janikowski says hi..


Fun fact.. All time leading scorer for the Oakland Raiders..

Can you tell him I said hi back?


Kickers can be had off the street. Sure, you can draft one but you shouldn't because it's terrible value. I'd much rather gamble on a guy who's falling (Telvin Smith) than draft a kicker in any round.


I've never said kickers aren't valuable but they shouldn't be drafted. Bucs gave up a lot to get Aguayo and do you think they're regretting it? I bet when they look back at the players taken after him, they'll be kicking themselves.

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Can you tell him I said hi back?


Kickers can be had off the street. Sure, you can draft one but you shouldn't because it's terrible value. I'd much rather gamble on a guy who's falling (Telvin Smith) than draft a kicker in any round.


I've never said kickers aren't valuable but they shouldn't be drafted. Bucs gave up a lot to get Aguayo and do you think they're regretting it? I bet when they look back at the players taken after him, they'll be kicking themselves.

They traded to get Aguayo. We took Yannick and Day

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

Apparently this guy is getting a "mental health coach" now. Oh boy....

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<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/PatDonovanNFL'>Pat Donovan ‏@PatDonovanNFL </a> <a class="" href='https://twitter.com/PatDonovanNFL/status/768106329609236480' title="10:23 AM - 23 Aug 2016">4h</a>

<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/PatDonovanNFL/status/768106329609236480' title="10:23 AM - 23 Aug 2016">4 hours ago</a>

<p class="" style="font-size:26px;">Roberto Aguayo just had one of the worst practice shanks I've ever seen followed by another miss. It's officially a thing. <a class="" href='https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bucs?src=hash'>#Bucs</a> <a class="" href='https://twitter.com/hashtag/Browns?src=hash'>#Browns</a>

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Big deal. How many kicks did Josh Scobee miss in underwear practice his first season in the NFL?

Can we revisit this statement now that he's missing in games too?

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IT WAS ALWAYS THE JAGS

I look forward to Dave signing this guy next year as camp competition for Jason Myers.

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I look forward to Dave signing this guy next year as camp competition for Jason Myers.

Shoot, at this rate, he might be worse than Myers.

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Not so sure hiring a mental coach is a good thing. Turns it into a bigger thing than it needs to be.

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In reading about the struggles of Roberto Aguayo,   I think back to Jason Hanson's rookie season.   Both had a very similar draft path,  as the Lions traded up into the 2nd Round for Hanson back in 1992.  This despite the fact that long time Lions Kicker Eddie Murray was still one of the better kickers in the NFL at the time. To say the least  I thought it wasn't a good way to use draft resources but gladly was proven wrong.   Hanson had growing pains as a rookie  ( though not close to the level Aguayo is going through ) but eventually became a HOF caliber kicker who broke longevity records.   Aguayo could benefit greatly by speaking to Hanson and/ or other kickers who were drafted high.   It seems evident that Aguayo's issues are mental.

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This is great

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Other than us, Tampa won the 1st 2 rounds in the draft and then a trade up for a kicker happened

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Other than us, Tampa won the 1st 2 rounds in the draft and then a trade up for a kicker happened

 

  Trying to look at what transpired from a Bucs standpoint:  

 

  Because they traded down from pick # 9 to pick # 11,   their team brass probably felt that they had the draft currency to trade up into the late 2nd Round to get ensure the rights to Roberto Aguayo.   It's still a risky move but their 1st Round trade at least gave them some leverage.

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Trying to look at what transpired from a Bucs standpoint:


Because they traded down from pick # 9 to pick # 11, their team brass probably felt that they had the draft currency to trade up into the late 2nd Round to get ensure the rights to Roberto Aguayo. It's still a risky move but their 1st Round trade at least gave them some leverage.

you never have enough drat currency to drat a kick in the 2nd round lol. 6th round at the earliest you should ever drat a kicker and that is even questionable. Enough draft currancy? When is the last time Tampa has made yhe playoffs? They have a lot more holes on the team to worry about than a kicker

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you never have enough drat currency to drat a kick in the 2nd round lol. 6th round at the earliest you should ever drat a kicker and that is even questionable. Enough draft currancy? When is the last time Tampa has made yhe playoffs? They have a lot more holes on the team to worry about than a kicker

 

  If you knew a kicker would turn out to be a top 5 type of all around kicker for 10 or more seasons,  at what spot in the draft would you be comfortable taking him?   

 

  Regardless of how they used the draft resources that landed them Roberto Aguayo,  it's highly unlikely the Bucs will come close to reaching the Super Bowl this year.   How Aguayo turns out over the long haul will determine whether they even came close to making a good decision in securing his draft rights in Round 2. 

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If you knew a kicker would turn out to be a top 5 type of all around kicker for 10 or more seasons, at what spot in the draft would you be comfortable taking him?


Regardless of how they used the draft resources that landed them Roberto Aguayo, it's highly unlikely the Bucs will come close to reaching the Super Bowl this year. How Aguayo turns out over the long haul will determine whether they even came close to making a good decision in securing his draft rights in Round 2.

I would be comfortable taking a kicker 4th round or later. I don't have a problem drafting one like a lot of people, but I always see the first 3 rounds as guys who should be pushing to start and be on the field more than a few plays a game.


That being said, they have a 2nd round kicker and a 3rd round punter. They should, in theory, be set at those positions for years.

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“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

I would be comfortable taking a kicker 4th round or later. I don't have a problem drafting one like a lot of people, but I always see the first 3 rounds as guys who should be pushing to start and be on the field more than a few plays a game.


That being said, they have a 2nd round kicker and a 3rd round punter. They should, in theory, be set at those positions for years.

 

  For the most part I agree with what you mentioned in the first paragraph,   However,  I'm now reluctant in most cases to criticize any team that drafts a Kicker as early as the late 2nd Round on if they have a strong conviction the Kicker has differential ability and intangibles.  Having said that, if the Kicker doesn't pan out close to his high draft billing,  that's a huge negative on the track record of the G.M. who selected him.

 

 Because the Jags decided to move on from Bryan Anger despite having a uniquely positive salary cap situation,  I don't view him as a 3rd Round pick from a Bucs standpoint.   His performance level didn't reflect his draft billing.   It's probably around 50-50 whether Anger will be with the Bucs for 3 or more seasons.  

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For the most part I agree with what you mentioned in the first paragraph, However, I'm now reluctant in most cases to criticize any team that drafts a Kicker as early as the late 2nd Round on if they have a strong conviction the Kicker has differential ability and intangibles. Having said that, if the Kicker doesn't pan out close to his high draft billing, that's a huge negative on the track record of the G.M. who selected him.


Because the Jags decided to move on from Bryan Anger despite having a uniquely positive salary cap situation, I don't view him as a 3rd Round pick from a Bucs standpoint. His performance level didn't reflect his draft billing. It's probably around 50-50 whether Anger will be with the Bucs for 3 or more seasons.

so you was ok when Gene drafted a punter in the 3rd? Gene had a strong conviction he had a different ability and intangibles. "The way the ball came off that foot just sounded different"

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At least he has his third round bust punter to comfort him.

 

Trading up into the 2nd round to get a kicker is one of the worst decisions anyone could ever make. To pick up a special teams player in the first 3 round they have to be a gamechanger imo. You can get good kickers and punters in the 7th or as UDFAs. If your kicker isn't going to be making longer field goals by a margin than everyone else (60+) and kicking them at a significantly higher percentage then what is the point in drafting him so high?

 

I'll go back to the 2014 NFL draft (it's the most recent draft that has players that have had a couple of years experience). Second round picks:

Derek Carr

Davante Adams

Carlos Hyde

Jeremy Hilll

Kony Ealy

Timmy Jernigan

Allen Robinson (#61)

Jimmy Garoppolo (#62)

Jarvis Landry (#63)

 

Those guys are all  starters at skill positions going into this season (Garoppolo only because Brady is suspended but eh). Then you've got guys like Charles Sims, Tre Mason (before his problems), Brandon Linder, Donte Moncrief, John Brown and Trai Turner in the third.

 

 

Comparing one draft with another is difficult but most years the second and third rounds have a large amount of players available who can start at skill positions. Some have elite/franchise potential like Robinson, Landry, Linder and Turner. All four of those are pro bowlers within 2 season and all four drafted later than Aguayo was by the way.

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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17375...gles-again

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