You sound pretty desperate mate. Listen to your fellow countrymen:

 

They never wanted the EU constitution (Lisbon treaty). The referendum on the Ukraine basically shows what you guys think of the EU very recently. 

The Ukraine vote barely made the 30% threshold to be valid. It certainly was a signal to the EU but a vast majority of people didn't vote, most of whom would never vote to leave the EU.

 

As for the chance of the Dutch leaving: There is only one party openly calling to leave; the PVV. There is a second party that is Eurosceptic; that's the SP. Together they are polling at 49 seats, less than a third of the parliamentary vote. Except the SP doesn't want to leave the EU and they would never willingly work with the PVV. 

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Now you're just embarrassing yourself. First it was "Merkel will give the UK what they want" then when faced with direct evidence to the contrary it's "Merkel want to give UK what it wants, she's just not saying it". As for German cars: Not a chance in hell will the Germans risk the EU dividing just to sell some cars in the UK. They will happily implode that entire industry to keep the free trade zone the EU is now.

 

I'm sorry you don't understand that people won't acknowledge in public how far they are willing to negotiate in advance - obviously not a Business major.

 

Notice how Merkel has never said that the single market can't be negotiated? - that's the real key. Now how much further she is willing to go to assure this we will find out. 

 

Merkel going to damage the german car industry? You are dreaming mate. 

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I'm sorry you don't understand that people won't acknowledge in public how far they are willing to negotiate in advance - obviously not a Business major.

 

Notice how Merkel has never said that the single market can't be negotiated? - that's the real key. Now how much further she is willing to go to assure this we will find out. 

 

Merkel going to damage the german car industry? You are dreaming mate. 

Of course she and the EU will negotiate the free market, they'd be foolish not to. But they're not just going to hand the UK a free pass and tell them to get cracking. They're gonna drag every single obligation out of the UK they have to. All the things the Leave campaign said would happen; own control over immigration, no more being bound by EU law, no more money going to the EU? Not of that is going to happen. They'll be as screwed as the ever were with the added bonus of losing all of their influence in Brussels. 

 

On top of that Scotland is in high gear to leave the UK and join the EU. Northern Ireland is doing the same but at a slower pace. By the time the UK leaves they might not have trade deals with the US and/or China. Pretty soon there won't be a UK economy left to sell things to anymore.

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Of course she and the EU will negotiate the free market, they'd be foolish not to. But they're not just going to hand the UK a free pass and tell them to get cracking. They're gonna drag every single obligation out of the UK they have to. All the things the Leave campaign said would happen; own control over immigration, no more being bound by EU law, no more money going to the EU? Not of that is going to happen. They'll be as screwed as the ever were with the added bonus of losing all of their influence in Brussels. 

 

On top of that Scotland is in high gear to leave the UK and join the EU. Northern Ireland is doing the same but at a slower pace. By the time the UK leaves they might not have trade deals with the US and/or China. Pretty soon there won't be a UK economy left to sell things to anymore.

 

Well the markets while turbulent certainly don't seem to be pricing in most of what you are saying. Certainly glad I bought a lot of shares yesterday on the Oz market which was hammered.

 

Obviously there will be concessions on both sides, but with the mess in the eurozone and the UK having such a huge trade deficit it is pretty obvious we could cut a way better deal than any other country in the EU.

 

As for Scotland, their position is tricky, they are very populist up there and also about having their cake and eating it. They want to be in the EU and have the pound but they can't have either outside the UK. Spain will veto forever an independent Scotland joining the EU, and ignorin thatg joining the EU will mean joining the euro, a very tough political sell. 

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The Ukraine vote barely made the 30% threshold to be valid. It certainly was a signal to the EU but a vast majority of people didn't vote, most of whom would never vote to leave the EU.

 

As for the chance of the Dutch leaving: There is only one party openly calling to leave; the PVV. There is a second party that is Eurosceptic; that's the SP. Together they are polling at 49 seats, less than a third of the parliamentary vote. Except the SP doesn't want to leave the EU and they would never willingly work with the PVV. 

 

Why do you continue citing what the Dutch Parliament thinks?  A referendum would be put to the people not the Parliament.  The clear trend is that the leadership does not speak for the people. 

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Why do you continue citing what the Dutch Parliament thinks? A referendum would be put to the people not the Parliament. The clear trend is that the leadership does not speak for the people.

Because to have a referendum on leaving the EU the Parliament would have to approve and vote for it first. Since the Leave vote doesn't even have a third of the vote the entire issue becomes moot.

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It's all going to be moot, because in the end, Britain will stay in the EU. There will be a parliamentary election, and the main issue will be stay or not stay. The stay party will win, and Britain will stay.


Bet on it.

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It's all going to be moot, because in the end, Britain will stay in the EU. There will be a parliamentary election, and the main issue will be stay or not stay. The stay party will win, and Britain will stay.


Bet on it.

That or Parliament calls a vote, enough Tory MPs cross the line to vote stay and overrule the referendum.

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God help them...

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I think there would be riots if there wasn't some kind of limit on EU migration, though agree I don't think they will end up leaving.

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That or Parliament calls a vote, enough Tory MPs cross the line to vote stay and overrule the referendum.

I think a much better choice would be not to simply overrule the referendum, but instead to put it back to the voters but this time in the form of a parliamentary election. Then when the pro-EU forces win, they can claim a mandate. If parliament simply votes to ignore the referendum, that would provoke an extreme reaction from a large part of the public.


You're from over there, tell me, could the Liberal Democrats run on a platform like "we are offering a third way" which would be EU reform coupled with staying in the EU? It seems like a prime opportunity for politicians who had no role in the referendum in the first place.

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The liberal democrats are pretty much dead at this point. Nobody really knows what they stand for.

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You're from over there, tell me, could the Liberal Democrats run on a platform like "we are offering a third way" which would be EU reform coupled with staying in the EU? It seems like a prime opportunity for politicians who had no role in the referendum in the first place.

I doubt it. Like lastonealive said; the Lib Dems are pretty much dead in the water. 

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A rather interesting opinion someone posted in the Guardian comment section and which bears thought:

 

 

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">How?

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

<p style="color:rgb(79,79,79);font-family:verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(240,243,252);">All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

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Sturgeon humiliated in Brussels.

 

Tusk not interested in seeing her and then Rajoy:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pol...09176.html

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Sturgeon humiliated in Brussels.

 

Tusk not interested in seeing her and then Rajoy:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/pol...09176.html

What I got out of that article:

 

Scotland's got some homework to finish before it comes to the table.

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Is it true that Spain could veto their entrance?

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You're from over there, tell me, could the Liberal Democrats run on a platform like "we are offering a third way" which would be EU reform coupled with staying in the EU? It seems like a prime opportunity for politicians who had no role in the referendum in the first place.

 

How in the world do you think Britain can reform the EU? By threatening to leave? That already has proven to change nothing.


 

Would the ruling EU bureaucrats dependent on the EU staying the way it is allow any change?

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

BTW, the stock shock was very short-lived.


 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/folks-brex...00164.html

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

What I got out of that article:

 

Scotland's got some homework to finish before it comes to the table.

Spain will never come to the table because otherwise it encourages their separatist areas.

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