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badger · 03-17-2016, 01:35 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxZqAIl8jrc

Where's an old guy to punch this dude in the head when you need him?

WingerDinger · 03-17-2016, 01:39 PM

I can actually see this happening. Career politicians need their lobbyists to remain well fed.

jtmoney · 03-17-2016, 01:46 PM

Quote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxZqAIl8jrc

Where's an old guy to punch this dude in the head when you need him?

That is your Republican Party right now. It's going to be a battle. Interesting to see how it plays out. I thought that was insanely stupid and arrogant to say sighting rules like they mean anything. He even blamed the media for it and said that voters will come around once they know the truth of the rules... This guy is living in fantasy land.

badger · 03-17-2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:That is your Republican Party right now. It's going to be a battle. Interesting to see how it plays out. I thought that was insanely stupid and arrogant to say sighting rules like they mean anything. He even blamed the media for it and said that voters will come around once they know the truth of the rules... This guy is living in fantasy land.

You think this is only a problem with the Republican party? Had this race with Clinton actually been close, Bernie supporters would have a legit gripe with these "super" delegates.

The question is, is he living in a fantasy land? The chairman of the RNC was saying similar things, basically saying the will of the people is secondary. It's total [BAD WORD REMOVED].

Yes, the comment about the media creating the illusion that this is actually a democratic society. Like I said, somebody punch this guy in the head.

jtmoney · 03-17-2016, 01:55 PM

Quote:You think this is only a problem with the Republican party? Had this race with Clinton actually been close, Bernie supporters would have a legit gripe with these "super" delegates.

The question is, is he living in a fantasy land? The chairman of the RNC was saying similar things, basically saying the will of the people is secondary. It's total [BAD WORD REMOVED].

I think that yes, based on what I'm seeing, this would not be an issue in the Democratic Party right now (not saying eve), but that is just my opinion based on what I'm seeing. You have a more unified Democratic Party and more split Republican Party. You have the Tea Party, The Unorthodox (he is in a class by himself) and The Establishment. I've never seen debates like I have with the Republican base. I think both Bernie and Trump were able to make waves because the country wanted something different and were tired of the elitists/establishment. For Bernie, he unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your view) did not get the publicity especially early on that Trump was able to receive. Trump has a lot of relationships with media prior to and of course knows how to make people talk about him.

The Eleventh Doctor · 03-17-2016, 01:59 PM

I think if either party went against the will of the public, they'd be handing the election to the other side.

If Trump doesn't reach the number of delegates--or even if he does but not by a lot, then the Republican Party could probably try to choose a different candidate. It would NOT go over well though. Especially with Trump donors.

I was wrong about Trent Baalke.

jtmoney · 03-17-2016, 02:05 PM

And if that happens all Trump needs to do is run as an Independent and force their hand.

oface5446 · 03-17-2016, 02:14 PM

I think it has become obvious to those who are paying attention - on both sides of the aisle - that this country is not a democracy. This is a country where the wealthy elite buy elections. It's an oligarchy.

Jaguar Warrior · 03-17-2016, 02:21 PM

Quote:I think it has become obvious to those who are paying attention - on both sides of the aisle - that this country is not a democracy. This is a country where the wealthy elite buy elections. It's an oligarchy.

Truth.

jtmoney · 03-17-2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:I think it has become obvious to those who are paying attention - on both sides of the aisle - that this country is not a democracy. This is a country where the wealthy elite buy elections. It's an oligarchy.

Pretty much. Which is why Bernie was/is so popular. He is the only person I actually believe is mostly telling the truth. He also keeps the narrative about policies and debating them. It is hard not to respect him as a person fighting for what he believes and not caving into the democratic political power struggle that almost all do. I know many here disagree with his beliefs on governing, but someone finding a politician who hasn't been bought is hard to find.

Trump is already taking on Super Pac funds which of course we knew would happen. That was certainly an early rally cry for himself, but voters will not be put off nor should they since Trump, by history, does and says what he can for a specific goal.

I'd vote for Bernie, I won't vote for Hillary and with the way things are going, I'm either voting for Trump or I'm not voting at all. I wonder how many other people would vote for Bernie and have Trump as their #2 (kind of). I'll wait to see how the election goes.

Jaguar Warrior · 03-17-2016, 02:51 PM

Quote: I wonder how many other people would vote for Bernie and have Trump as their #2 (kind of). I'll wait to see how the election goes.

I actually hear this a lot, and I am sorta in the same camp (but in reverse). Bernie wants to take on trade, globalism, and the wall street elites. He wants the best of Americans, not global corporations and big banks. I would support him first If only he wasn't such a fool on immigration, the dangers of Islam, and muh free stuff, but I guess that is what you get with big-heart liberalism.

oface5446 · 03-17-2016, 03:01 PM

Quote:Pretty much. Which is why Bernie was/is so popular. He is the only person I actually believe is mostly telling the truth. He also keeps the narrative about policies and debating them. It is hard not to respect him as a person fighting for what he believes and not caving into the democratic political power struggle that almost all do. I know many here disagree with his beliefs on governing, but someone finding a politician who hasn't been bought is hard to find.

Trump is already taking on Super Pac funds which of course we knew would happen. That was certainly an early rally cry for himself, but voters will not be put off nor should they since Trump, by history, does and says what he can for a specific goal.

I'd vote for Bernie, I won't vote for Hillary and with the way things are going, I'm either voting for Trump or I'm not voting at all. I wonder how many other people would vote for Bernie and have Trump as their #2 (kind of). I'll wait to see how the election goes.

Same boat as me exactly. It has become apparent that the DNC and the wealthy elite that run in it (and the corporate media to boot) have no inclination whatsoever to allow the American public to elect someone who would make the people in power pay their fair share of taxes. Same exact problem on the other side except they didn't see Trump coming.

“At the parliament of animals, the rabbits demanded equal rights, and the lions replied, ‘But where are your claws?’”

***jagibelieve*** · 03-17-2016, 03:19 PM

The thing is, I don't think that most people understand their particular party's rules regarding the nomination process. As an example, many democrats were outraged when Hillary Clinton got more delegates than she deserved (super delegates). As far as the republicans go, most probably don't realize that there is a difference between dropping out of the race vs. suspending their campaign. The delegates that Marco Rubio(169), Ben Carson(8), Jeb Bush(4), Carly Fiorina(1), Mike Huckabee(1) and Rand Paul(1) currently hold still belong to them by virtue of them suspending their campaigns rather than dropping out. If they completely drop out then their delegates become "super delegates" which means that they can vote for any other candidate.

Now here is the other thing that many people don't realize. Donald Trump does not hold the majority of total republican delegates. In essence, there are more anti-Trump republicans than there are pro-Trump republicans. So if this goes to a contested convention, in all likelihood Donald Trump will not be the nominee.

Now as far as speculating who would be the eventual nominee, that's a big question. I would presume either Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio since they currently hold the next most delegates (though Kasich has a chance to add to his). However, that is only an assumption on my part regarding pro/anti-Trump delegates.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

TJBender · 03-17-2016, 03:24 PM

Quote:Now as far as speculating who would be the eventual nominee, that's a big question. I would presume either Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio since they currently hold the next most delegates (though Kasich has a chance to add to his). However, that is only an assumption on my part regarding pro/anti-Trump delegates.

I'm wondering about Kasich, actually. Aside from a minor gaffe or two, he's the only candidate in the GOP primary who has not embarrassed himself on numerous occasions. Given that the only person the GOP hates more than Ted Cruz is Donald Trump, and given that Rubio has been destroyed by the media and by his opposition, it wouldn't surprise me if the GOP was stringing things along to keep him alive through a brokered convention.

At least, a man can hope that's what's going on, right?

Jaguar Warrior · 03-17-2016, 03:29 PM

Quote:At least, a man can hope that's what's going on, right?

Any decent man would hope not. Nominating Kasich is basically bending over for Hillary Clinton's Rodham.

oface5446 · 03-17-2016, 03:31 PM

http://www.salon.com/2016/03/16/new_york...socialflow

badger · 03-17-2016, 03:50 PM

Quote:The thing is, I don't think that most people understand their particular party's rules regarding the nomination process. As an example, many democrats were outraged when Hillary Clinton got more delegates than she deserved (super delegates). As far as the republicans go, most probably don't realize that there is a difference between dropping out of the race vs. suspending their campaign. The delegates that Marco Rubio(169), Ben Carson(8), Jeb Bush(4), Carly Fiorina(1), Mike Huckabee(1) and Rand Paul(1) currently hold still belong to them by virtue of them suspending their campaigns rather than dropping out. If they completely drop out then their delegates become "super delegates" which means that they can vote for any other candidate.

Now here is the other thing that many people don't realize. Donald Trump does not hold the majority of total republican delegates. In essence, there are more anti-Trump republicans than there are pro-Trump republicans. So if this goes to a contested convention, in all likelihood Donald Trump will not be the nominee.

Now as far as speculating who would be the eventual nominee, that's a big question. I would presume either Ted Cruz or Marco Rubio since they currently hold the next most delegates (though Kasich has a chance to add to his). However, that is only an assumption on my part regarding pro/anti-Trump delegates.

edit: nevermind, yes, that is an assumption you're making about people who voted other than Trump.

In response to your first paragraph; the whole idea of a delegate going against the will of the people in their district is not democracy. Every time that happens, they are literally stealing votes of Americans who have just as much right to vote as anybody.

TJBender · 03-17-2016, 04:00 PM

Quote:Any decent man would hope not. Nominating Kasich is basically bending over for Hillary Clinton's Rodham.

I don't think so. He's had one big gaffe in this campaign, unless you count openly lamenting about how Donald Trump, Ben Carson and Ted Cruz have killed the GOP to be a gaffe. He carries a lot of weight in the upper Midwest, and is close enough to center that a lot of moderates and/or people who plan to vote for Hillary purely to keep Trump away might flock to him. Ideologically, though, he is a true conservative.

From the first debate, he was my second choice to Rand Paul. With Rand long since out of it, me having all kinds of unreconcilable issues with Bernie and Cruz hanging by a thread, he's climbed back up to the top. I'm hoping against hope that the Republican Party strings this into a brokered convention and hands it to Kasich. Long shot, I know, but he can and would beat Hillary, and he wouldn't put on the biggest clown show since Jimmy Carter if he did.

***jagibelieve*** · 03-17-2016, 04:07 PM

Quote:I'm wondering about Kasich, actually. Aside from a minor gaffe or two, he's the only candidate in the GOP primary who has not embarrassed himself on numerous occasions. Given that the only person the GOP hates more than Ted Cruz is Donald Trump, and given that Rubio has been destroyed by the media and by his opposition, it wouldn't surprise me if the GOP was stringing things along to keep him alive through a brokered convention.

At least, a man can hope that's what's going on, right?

That could be part of what is happening, though Kasich said that he "wasn't going to take the low road to the nomination". The thing is, mathematically he can't win the nomination outright. However, I did hear on the radio something to the effect that Marco Rubio didn't endorse Cruz, but encourages voters to vote for him. Again, I heard this briefly and haven't seen any news verifying this, so take it for what it's worth. So here is my "conspiracy thought" regarding this.

Rubio wants people to vote for Cruz to force a brokered convention. Rubio and Kasich are both "approved members" of the establishment. A Rubio/Kasich ticket or vice versa is probably the angle that they are taking. The almost worst case scenario for them is that Ted Cruz gains enough delegates to win outright avoiding a brokered convention. In that case, they both win (avoiding Trump) and lose (an anti-establishment candidate). That is highly unlikely, but what is likely is that he gains enough to block Donald Trump from winning outright forcing a brokered convention. If that's the case, I wouldn't be shocked to see a Rubio/Kasich or Kasich/Rubio ticket.

If my "conspiracy thought" is correct and that is what goes down, I can live with it.

The worst case scenario would be that Trump actually wins outright. At that point, say hello to President Hillary.

There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

badger · 03-17-2016, 04:08 PM

Quote:I don't think so. He's had one big gaffe in this campaign, unless you count openly lamenting about how Donald Trump, Ben Carson and Ted Cruz have killed the GOP to be a gaffe. He carries a lot of weight in the upper Midwest, and is close enough to center that a lot of moderates and/or people who plan to vote for Hillary purely to keep Trump away might flock to him. Ideologically, though, he is a true conservative.

From the first debate, he was my second choice to Rand Paul. With Rand long since out of it, me having all kinds of unreconcilable issues with Bernie and Cruz hanging by a thread, he's climbed back up to the top. I'm hoping against hope that the Republican Party strings this into a brokered convention and hands it to Kasich. Long shot, I know, but he can and would beat Hillary, and he wouldn't put on the biggest clown show since Jimmy Carter if he did.

I think so. He got the majority vote in one state and it wasn't a land slide.