lol ... do you now feel better?

 

I think Oehser is speaking for the front office/coaching staff, so watch out - you might get one of those stern looks from Coughlin.

 

What Oehser keeps saying is that you don't need to replace the entire line. I'd be shocked if the Jags don't spend real money or serious draft capital on the line, especially left guard. Other than that, we'll see. 

 

Yes, I do feel better.   That was good. 

 

No, I do not believe Oehser was saying we don't need to replace the entire line.   I think he was pretty clear- he thinks we may be in the same mode of thinking about the offensive line that we've been in for the last few years- not on the front burner.  That's what's aggravating.  Offensive line should be the number one priority in building any team.  It's the most important thing on the team (except QB).   It's the engine room.  It's what makes the whole thing work.  

 

Every year, I hear someone like Jeff Lageman say something like, "They're really high on Tyler Shatley."   That drives me up the wall.  

---

 Put in that offer sheet on mack a few years back. The players just haven't worked out. Also a weird time for this thread. You should wait a few days and see if they make any moves in free agency before you have a meltdown.

 

Yes, and then when he became an Unrestricted Free Agent, we ignored him and instead moved our best Guard to Center. Only to watch Alex Mack play 16 games, stabilize the Atlanta OLINE, and go to the Super Bowl.

---

One huge mistake Caldwell made was not address left guard seriously prior to last season.

 

The fact he thought Mackenzy Bernadeau could start at left guard was disturbing. He couldn't even make it to the regular season. 

 

And his backup plan to that was Joeckel?

 

They could have easily re-signed Wisniewski for a temp starter at guard, depth at center. He did not.

 

They could have signed a guard like Jeff Allen, Brandon Brook or Josh Sitton that would have been a day one starter. He did not. 

 

And from all accounts, they did not seriously pursue Mack last year. Another mistake.

 

It would not surprise me if in addition to Albert, the team adds at least two veteran linemen plus drafts two in the first four or so rounds.

---

;

;

I think the frustration should be more at the overall rebuild, to which you are actually kind of late to the the party. You should have been frustrated in weeks 2-4 over the fact that this team aint "built " 

 

Draft Busts, Free Agent Busts and inability to manage the draft, it really is the whole ship that's disappointing 

 

I actually think the overall build was okay.   It's the offensive line that is sorely lacking, and never seemed like they really put a priority on it. 

---

I actually think the overall build was okay.   It's the offensive line that is sorely lacking, and never seemed like they really put a priority on it. 

 

You do realize the overall rebuild started with the hiring of Gus and then extending his Contract through 2018 when the dude only won 1 game in September, don't you?

---

All those good teams got a franchise QB which makes up for a talent deficient OL. Jags don't have one. The front office is chicken, shake things up at QB, wanting Bortles to be the guy. He's not the guy. He regressed. His completion % stinks and he's turn over prone. He has to go to throwing motion school every offseason. Bring in talent at QB, draft Deshaun Watson at #4. If that fails, draft Darnold next season and so on till.

 

DeShaun Watson won't do crap behind this offensive line.  

 

That's what kills me.   People think a running back will solve our running problems, or a new QB will solve our QB problems.   The problem seems plain as day to me- the offensive line.  

---

DeShaun Watson won't do crap behind this offensive line.  
 
That's what kills me.   People think a running back will solve our running problems, or a new QB will solve our QB problems.   The problem seems plain as day to me- the offensive line.

ok, draft a OL in the first round for the next 5 years for each Oline position and have a journeyman QB and rb and aging wr's. kewl. Chhhhammmmpppiiioonnshhiippppp

---

ok, draft a OL in the first round for the next 5 years for each Oline position and have a journeyman QB and rb and aging wr's and aging Ramsey/Ngakoue/Jack and fill out the D with castoffs. kewl. Chhhhammmmpppiiioonnshhiippppp

---

To put a finer point on this, last year, Cleveland had two first rounders on the OL-Long and Erving.  The year before (2015) they had three first rounders:  Long, Mack and Erving.

 

The Jaguars with one first round OL finished with better records than them both years.

 

The 49ers had two first round picks along their OL:  Staley and Garnett.

 

The Jaguars finished with a better record than them too.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

ok, draft a OL in the first round for the next 5 years for each Oline position and have a journeyman QB and rb and aging wr's. kewl. Chhhhammmmpppiiioonnshhiippppp

 

You do realize Dave had 4 Free Agency periods to work with to, don't ya?

---

One huge mistake Caldwell made was not address left guard seriously prior to last season.

 

The fact he thought Mackenzy Bernadeau could start at left guard was disturbing. He couldn't even make it to the regular season. 

 

And his backup plan to that was Joeckel?

 

They could have easily re-signed Wisniewski for a temp starter at guard, depth at center. He did not.

 

They could have signed a guard like Jeff Allen, Brandon Brook or Josh Sitton that would have been a day one starter. He did not. 

 

And from all accounts, they did not seriously pursue Mack last year. Another mistake.

 

It would not surprise me if in addition to Albert, the team adds at least two veteran linemen plus drafts two in the first four or so rounds.

Slauson could have been signed too, I think.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

DeShaun Watson won't do crap behind this offensive line.


That's what kills me. People think a running back will solve our running problems, or a new QB will solve our QB problems. The problem seems plain as day to me- the offensive line.

Our pass protection isnt really that bad, and it isnt that difficult to establish a run game with a proper scheme and a couple upgrades on the interior.


QB is far and away our biggest problem, like its not even close.

---

it really is the whole ship that's disappointing 

I have a hard time seeing it that way. 

 

The LBs are good.  The secondary is very close. The D-Line has gotten significantly better - just one piece away now. 

The receivers are great.  

 

The O-Line just can't run block,  RBs are average and the QB is a project.

 

That is not  "the whole ship."  

---

I have a hard time seeing it that way.


The LBs are good. The secondary is very close. The D-Line has gotten significantly better - just one piece away now.

The receivers are great.


The O-Line just can't run block, RBs are average and the QB is a project.


That is not "the whole ship."

weve had the most resources ever and cant get more than 5 wins


having a couple players here and there doesnt make this not a catastrophe

---

New England, the current champion, currently has one first round pick starting on their OL-Nate Solder.

 

Atlanta, the Super Bowl runner up, currently has two:  Matthews-their own 2st rounder, and Mack, a free agent that we went after just the year before.  Why we didn't go after him again is a mystery.

 

The Steelers, who were in the AFC title game, has two (Pouncey and DeCastro).  The Packers, who lost the NFC championship, has one (Bulaga).

 

Kansas City, which lost a divisional playoff game, had 1 last year (Fisher).  The other AFC divisional game featured Houston, who had 1 (Brown).

 

In the NFC, the divisional losers included Dallas, who had 3 (Smith, Frederick, and Martin) and Seattle, who had one (Ifedi).

 

The AFC wild card losers included Miami, who had 4 (Albert-a FA but former 1st rounder, Tunsil, Pouncey, and JuWan James) and Oakland, which had ZERO first round picks along the OL.  The NFC Wild Card losers included Detroit, which featured 3 (Decker, Tomlinson and Reiff) and the Giants had two (Erek Flowers and Justin Pugh).

 

Based upon last season's results, the teams that invested the most first round picks in the OL got no further than the divisional round.

 

Like New England and Green Bay, Jacksonville had one first round pick to start the season on the OL (Joeckel) and looks to have one this year (Albert) barring any free agency moves or unexpected draft picks.

 

I do not say all of this to suggest that the OL cannot stand to be improved.  Any fan of this team can tell you OL needs upgrading.

 

But causation is not established between the lack of first round picks along the OL and the lack of team success.

 

There were things other than OL that causes our failures.

 

I get your point that some teams managed to build offensive lines without investing huge amounts of resources in terms of draft picks.   But you could say the same thing about quarterbacks.   Dallas got Tony Romo in undrafted free agency, and Dak Prescott in the 4th round.   Should we just draft a QB in the 4th round and consider the problem solved?  Of course not.  And neither should we just go meandering along without making much more of an effort to build an offensive line. 

 

Personally, I think we've made great progress building the defense, and we have very good WRs and decent RBs.   The offensive line is our weak spot.   Unless you have an elite, franchise QB, of which there are only about 5 or 6 in the entire NFL, you have to build an offensive line so you can run the ball and protect your average QB who reads defenses in an average way, and who gets the ball off in an average length of time.  I'm not talking about Blake in particular, I'm talking about most successful teams.   Look at the Titans last year.   Mariota wasn't that great.   But they built a running game to help him out.   Of the Chiefs.   Alex Smith is not an elite QB.  I don't think Dak Prescott was an elite QB last year.   He was better than average, but Dallas had a killer offensive line. 

 

I concede your point that it is not absolutely necessary to invest lots of high draft picks to get a good offensive line.   But you have to admit, logically, if you want to make sure you manage to successfully build an offensive line, then you should make the investment and not just rely on luck.  The odds are stacked against us if we think we're going to build an offensive line out of undrafted free agents. 

 

I'm saying, this has gone on long enough.  It's time to bite the bullet and make the investment.  

---

weve had the most resources ever and cant get more than 5 wins


having a couple players here and there doesnt make this not a catastrophe

 

And I'm saying if we had Dallas' offensive line last year, we'd have won at least 9 games. 

---

weve had the most resources ever and cant get more than 5 wins


having a couple players here and there doesnt make this not a catastrophe

You are missing the point.  My post was a rebuttal to the "whole ship" of the rebuild comment.   Not the state of the team as a whole.

Just the personnel. 

 

If you think the "only 5 wins" thing is all Caldwell's fault- then you can't see the forest for the trees I guess. There's a lot more blame to go around on that feat of suck-age. 

And he has clearly accumulated more than "a couple players here and there." 

I'm always acknowledging of Caldwell's mis-steps and failures - but all this hyperbole in the other direction is ridiculous. 

---

Our pass protection isnt really that bad, and it isnt that difficult to establish a run game with a proper scheme and a couple upgrades on the interior.


QB is far and away our biggest problem, like its not even close.

 

Only if you think we have to have Aaron Rodgers level quarterbacking.   We're not going to get that.  We have to build other areas of the team.  

---

I have a hard time seeing it that way. 

 

The LBs are good.  The secondary is very close. The D-Line has gotten significantly better - just one piece away now. 

The receivers are great.  

 

The O-Line just can't run block,  RBs are average and the QB is a project.

 

That is not  "the whole ship."  

LBs are good, yes.

 

Secondary has one corner, no SS, a formerly good FS who has now had two bad years in a row. Not very close. Needs major draft/FA additions.

 

Dline has Malik, he is legit good. Abry is a good piece, but not a stalward by any means. Ngakoue had a good year for a rookie, but had a shockingly high sack to pressure ratio and wasn't good against the run. He needs to show more, which is possible but not guaranteed. Fowler hasn't shown anything. There's potential here but it's nowhere near a playoff caliber line without big improvement from Ngakoue and Fowler, or big draft/FA additions.

 

WRs are far from great. Robinson should be a fine WR1. Lee and Hurns are average WR2s. It's a passable WR corps but very far from great.

 

We have maybe the worst TEs in the league.

 

The RB are better than most people think, but still needs an injection of athleticism that isn't diminutive like Grant.

 

The oline has one piece you can trust going forward, and you can't even trust that he will stay healthy at this point. Albert, Parnell, and Cann all need to improve greatly from last year. Big FA/draft injections needed...but front office seems to think 4/5 of the line is set so that is a worry. 

 

QB is among the worst in the league. 

 

I find it real hard to believe that we have more than 1.5 playoff caliber positions (TE and 1/2 WR) out of 8 major position groups. 

---

Actually he failed at drafting one of them - then didn't draft enough of them.


I was looking for an <a class="bbc_url" href='http://cardswire.usatoday.com/2017/03/05/bruce-arians-thinks-evan-boehm-will-have-a-spot-in-the-lineup-for-cardinals-in-2017/'>Evan Boehm </a>drafting when Caldwell took Sheldon Day in the fourth round. While I like Day - Boehm may have been more beneficial to this team last season and moving forward when you compare the need for each guy on this roster.


He's only ever drafted Joeckel, Linder and Cann.


The strikes against Dave regarding the O-Line are: Joeckel and Beadles primarily - followed by simply not drafting at least one more guy.

Exactly! I too was baffled, by the Day pick in the 4th. If he had just kept drafting guys every year.. I'm sure we would have been had a serviceable line... Instead we got the Storm Johnson and Ace Sanders of the world...Smh

---