I get where you are coming from, but let me point out this.  Many on the left often fight to teach evolution in schools.  Did evolution in the case of the OP make this kid a male or a female?  If the kid "feels" like he was born with the wrong hardware, is that not a belief?

We don't know. I mean, it's that simple. We don't know what happens in the brain of a transgender individual that causes them to be the opposite gender to the one that their equipment is designed for. It is entirely possible that a fetus' brain is wired for female use, but the body carries an XY chromosome pair and develops with male genitalia.

 

If anything, I would say that transgender and homosexuality should all but prove evolution. You'd expect to see those two situations as extreme genetic outliers in an evolved species, and they are.

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I appreciate you summing up the article in the thread that I have been participating in, for some reason.

 

Do you feel "pushed" into not using racial slurs? Would it not bother you as a person if someone where to refer ot you in a way that makes you feel like less of a person or as if you don't know who you are? Because that is what you are doing in your "refusal" to refer to them as they see themselves. Frankly, it comes across as being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn (presuming you have no actual ill intent). 

 

Can you point out where I used racial slurs?  I don't recall race being brought up in this conversation at all.

 

I personally don't really care about how people refer to me, and I have been referred to by racial slurs that were pretty ugly during that time.  It didn't bother me then and doesn't bother me now.

 

What exactly am I being stubborn about?  Using correct terminology when referring to other people?  Whether you like it or not, Bruce (Caitlyn) Jenner is a he.  The student in the OP is a he, male, boy.  There is really no disputing that.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Classic righty move of trying to turn everything they disagree with into a belief.

 

Did I impersonate you correctly?

 

To answer your question, no not really.

 

Is the boy in the OP actually a girl, or does he "believe" that he's a girl?

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

What exactly am I being stubborn about?  Using correct terminology when referring to other people?  Whether you like it or not, Bruce (Caitlyn) Jenner is a he.  The student in the OP is a he, male, boy.  There is really no disputing that.

If your definition of gender is based solely on what's hanging (or not) between the legs, then no, there's no disputing that.

 

If your definition of gender is open to the possibility that processes within the brain have at least as much bearing over someone's identity than what's down there, then yes, there is plenty of dispute to be had. There are millions of people in the US alone who know that they were born with the wrong hardware. Surely, especially since we still do not know exactly what it means to be transgender or how one arrives there, their experiences and input on who they are as a person deserve respect, right?

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Can you point out where I used racial slurs?  I don't recall race being brought up in this conversation at all.

 

I personally don't really care about how people refer to me, and I have been referred to by racial slurs that were pretty ugly during that time.  It didn't bother me then and doesn't bother me now.

 

What exactly am I being stubborn about?  Using correct terminology when referring to other people?  Whether you like it or not, Bruce (Caitlyn) Jenner is a he.  The student in the OP is a he, male, boy.  There is really no disputing that.

You seem to be having a major problem picking up analogies as of yet. I didn't say you did that I used it as an analogy.

 

Bottom line, if it makes you feel better to ignore the wishes of others when choosing your terminology to refer to them by than that's your right. You are also ignoring how it effects them and have to be aware of that. You are aware it is insulting to them and yet still chose to do it? 

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To answer your question, no not really.

 

Is the boy in the OP actually a girl, or does he "believe" that he's a girl?

That has nothing to do with whether or not you should refer to them as you see fit despite their wishes.

 

Stay on topic. 

 

How about that?

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Classic righty move of trying to turn everything they disagree with into a belief.

 

Did I impersonate you correctly?

 

To answer your question, no not really.

 

Is the boy in the OP actually a girl, or does he "believe" that he's a girl?

 

That has nothing to do with whether or not you should refer to them as you see fit despite their wishes.

 

Stay on topic. 

 

How about that?

 

I thought that I did stay on topic with my response.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

You seem to be having a major problem picking up analogies as of yet. I didn't say you did that I used it as an analogy.

 

Bottom line, if it makes you feel better to ignore the wishes of others when choosing your terminology to refer to them by than that's your right. You are also ignoring how it effects them and have to be aware of that. You are aware it is insulting to them and yet still chose to do it? 

 

What if that lifestyle happens to be insulting to me?  Should they not be aware of how it affects me or my family?  Should I be "forced" into not "insulting" them?  After all, we are talking about a very vast minority of the population.

 

The bottom line is, if some high school boy "identifies" as a girl, I'm still going to call him a him because that's the fact.  I still don't agree with him being able to use the female locker room.  Regardless of what this boy wants to call himself, I would still address him by his given name and would address him as "he, him, his, etc.".  I really don't care if it's insulting to him or not.

 

I find it odd that the far left finds the theory of creationism to be a "belief" not grounded in facts, yet evolution makes a boy a boy unless this boy "identifies" as a girl.  All of the sudden, this boy "believing" that he is female becomes "fact".

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I thought that I did stay on topic with my response.

Sheesh you are in full blown missing jokes mode. 

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What if that lifestyle happens to be insulting to me?  Should they not be aware of how it affects me or my family?  Should I be "forced" into not "insulting" them?  After all, we are talking about a very vast minority of the population.

 

The bottom line is, if some high school boy "identifies" as a girl, I'm still going to call him a him because that's the fact.  I still don't agree with him being able to use the female locker room.  Regardless of what this boy wants to call himself, I would still address him by his given name and would address him as "he, him, his, etc.".  I really don't care if it's insulting to him or not.

 

I find it odd that the far left finds the theory of creationism to be a "belief" not grounded in facts, yet evolution makes a boy a boy unless this boy "identifies" as a girl.  All of the sudden, this boy "believing" that he is female becomes "fact".

Huh?

 

The two have nothing to do with each other what so ever. It takes a very very large mental leap to even attempt to link the two in any way. All that has been said is that it could be a biproduct of evolution as noted by TJ due to extreme outliers in the system nobody has said evolution made them this way that I am aware of. Are you saying they are making it up as your basis for calling it a belief? 

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What if that lifestyle happens to be insulting to me?  Should they not be aware of how it affects me or my family?  Should I be "forced" into not "insulting" them?  After all, we are talking about a very vast minority of the population.

 

The bottom line is, if some high school boy "identifies" as a girl, I'm still going to call him a him because that's the fact.  I still don't agree with him being able to use the female locker room.  Regardless of what this boy wants to call himself, I would still address him by his given name and would address him as "he, him, his, etc.".  I really don't care if it's insulting to him or not.

 

I find it odd that the far left finds the theory of creationism to be a "belief" not grounded in facts, yet evolution makes a boy a boy unless this boy "identifies" as a girl.  All of the sudden, this boy "believing" that he is female becomes "fact".

1. How is being asked to refer to someone as "she" an insult to you and your family? To an even greater point, how is any perceived "insult" on your part not greatly outweighed by the fact that you, in refusing to address this person as who they are vs. who you see them to be, are being far more insulting and demeaning, and potentially just adding fuel to the fire for their next major depressive episode?

 

2. What if the transgirl's parents ask you to refer to her as a girl, regardless of what gender her equipment is for? Would you go out of your way to insult that girl and the wishes of her family just to prove your point?

 

3. I really don't see how evolution and creationism are the least bit involved in this. I really don't. It's almost like you're reaching for a strawman here, but only the left would ever do such a thing, right?

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1. How is being asked to refer to someone as "she" an insult to you and your family? To an even greater point, how is any perceived "insult" on your part not greatly outweighed by the fact that you, in refusing to address this person as who they are vs. who you see them to be, are being far more insulting and demeaning, and potentially just adding fuel to the fire for their next major depressive episode?

 

2. What if the transgirl's parents ask you to refer to her as a girl, regardless of what gender her equipment is for? Would you go out of your way to insult that girl and the wishes of her family just to prove your point?

 

3. I really don't see how evolution and creationism are the least bit involved in this. I really don't. It's almost like you're reaching for a strawman here, but only the left would ever do such a thing, right?

:thumbsup:

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Less giggling and mystery about genitals and boobies would be progress.

 

You do realize that we're talking about kids here, right? They aren't adults, don't act like adults, and certainly don't think like adults. It's wrong of society to push them to be adults before actually are.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You do realize that we're talking about kids here, right? They aren't adults, don't act like adults, and certainly don't think like adults. It's wrong of society to push them to be adults before actually are.

This is how I feel talking with conservatives that have a deep fondness for an age gone by. 

 

I kid 

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This is how I feel talking with conservatives that have a deep fondness for an age gone by. 

 

I kid 

 

I can't comment on liberals who think that you can change human nature.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

And this is where it's going, and why all this foolishness that anatomy and physiology is irrelevant to gender identification needs to stop:

 

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me...story.html

 

These transgendered people are mentally ill; doctors should be helping them get over it, not enabling it. Damned if we should be altering society to regard mental illness as healthy and socially acceptable.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I can think of no scenario in which Cartman has relevance, except possibly to portray behavior that should not be tolerated.

 

Have you seen what was considered scandalous beachwear for women 100 years ago? Girls reveal more skin while attending high school these days.

 

Society can, and will, adapt, and reasonable compromises can be made. On both sides.

 

It would take you 2 minutes to look up what I was referring too.

 

Cartman can't use the stalls in the boys bathroom during recess because they are taken. So what does he do? He puts on a bow and says he now identifies as a girl and gets to use the girl's bathroom at recess. The girls then become understandably disgusted by the act, knowing Cartman is lying.

 

Should it be that simple for boys to use the girl's locker room and bathroom? Simply putting on a wig (is a wig required?) and saying they "identify" as a girl? I feel like anyone that respects girl's rights to privacy would not support potentially letting straight, perverted, males freely roam the girl's locker room by pretending to be transgender.

 

 

Yes, reasonable compromises can be made. In this case, the reasonable compromise is having a separate gender neutral locker room for transgender individuals. The student in this story refuses that compromise, though.

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It's not as simple as putting on a wig and opening the door. The transgirl in the story has been identifying as female since age 13,and she's 17 now. That would be the absolute longest of cons, to the point of being ridiculous, wouldn't it?

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You do realize that we're talking about kids here, right? They aren't adults, don't act like adults, and certainly don't think like adults. It's wrong of society to push them to be adults before actually are.

 

These are high school kids, on the threshold of adulthood. If they are not taught to be and act like adults by then, then when?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

It would take you 2 minutes to look up what I was referring too.

 

Cartman can't use the stalls in the boys bathroom during recess because they are taken. So what does he do? He puts on a bow and says he now identifies as a girl and gets to use the girl's bathroom at recess. The girls then become understandably disgusted by the act, knowing Cartman is lying.

 

Should it be that simple for boys to use the girl's locker room and bathroom? Simply putting on a wig (is a wig required?) and saying they "identify" as a girl? I feel like anyone that respects girl's rights to privacy would not support potentially letting straight, perverted, males freely roam the girl's locker room by pretending to be transgender.

 

 

Yes, reasonable compromises can be made. In this case, the reasonable compromise is having a separate gender neutral locker room for transgender individuals. The student in this story refuses that compromise, though.

 

Thanks for the synopsis, it supports my reason for not bothering to look it up. The episode you cite has nothing to do with the situation under discussion.

 

I agree, she should accept a compromise.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley