Abortion is technically birth control. 

 

False in the purest sense.

 

Birth control is something that happens before conception.  Not after.

 

Technically speaking.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

False in the purest sense.

 

Birth control is something that happens before conception.  Not after.

 

Technically speaking.

 

Birth control is picking the birth date so the obstetrician can spend the holiday with his family.


 

http://gizmodo.com/5910773/how-common-is-your-birthday

 

In a similar vein, gun control is using two hands.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

False in the purest sense.


Birth control is something that happens before conception. Not after.


Technically speaking.

Sorry, Pirk, but you are incorrect. IUD's are birth control, they work by not allowing a fertilized egg from implanting. A fertilized egg is conception...

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So as predicted, this thread falls to the "abortion=good abortion=bad" debate.

 

Never mind the fact that what is exposed could be a criminal case.  Let's just redirect the discussion.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

So as predicted, this thread falls to the "abortion=good abortion=bad" debate.

 

Never mind the fact that what is exposed could be a criminal case.  Let's just redirect the discussion.

 

What was your honest expectation of this thread?

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;

;

So as predicted, this thread falls to the "abortion=good abortion=bad" debate.


Never mind the fact that what is exposed could be a criminal case. Let's just redirect the discussion.

Of course it was going to degenerate into this. To the pro-birthers, it's mass murder. To the pro-choicers, it's facilitation of important scientific research. What's the difference between the two points of view? Whether a thing growing inside of a woman is a human life or not.


If I wasn't going to say what I'm about to, I guarantee you someone would launch into a tirade over that last sentence. Someone still may despite my essentially calling them on it. The actions of PP doctors are only criminal if the fetus is a living human being. There is no consensus on that, only high emotions and numerous arguments of questionable merit on both sides. Of course this became an abortion debate. What else could it have done?

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Deflection? My comment was about PP.


There is no reason PP can't give up the 2% (if you believe that number) of it's services that anger roughly half the people in this country and concentrate on the other 98% that you deem beneficial to society.

Why should they?


It is a legal service that half the country supports.

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Thats just not legally correct tj bender. It is against the law to alter an abortion procedure for the harvesting of tissue. It is against the law to notify the staff of the intent to donate tissue. Those are proven violations under current law that does not require recognition of the fetus as a person. The only question is about for profit sales and right now there would be definate probable cause for indictment so that we can at least see how they are going to cook the books on this one.

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Of course it was going to degenerate into this. To the pro-birthers, it's mass murder. To the pro-choicers, it's facilitation of important scientific research. What's the difference between the two points of view? Whether a thing growing inside of a woman is a human life or not.


If I wasn't going to say what I'm about to, I guarantee you someone would launch into a tirade over that last sentence. Someone still may despite my essentially calling them on it. The actions of PP doctors are only criminal if the fetus is a living human being. There is no consensus on that, only high emotions and numerous arguments of questionable merit on both sides. Of course this became an abortion debate. What else could it have done?

 

Even if it were true that PP was only performing abortions (rather than selling body parts and, in some cases, whole babies after they are delivered live*) there's a leap between not prosecuting a person who may or may not not be committing murder, vs. the government facilitating what may or may not be murder. And yes, while technically the nine old Ivy League lawyers on the Supreme Court said it's not murder, that court at one time also said that African Americans were not citizens.


 

 

 

 

* “Sometimes, if we get, if someone delivers before we get to see them for a procedure, then we are intact.”

 

This was in response to a question as to whether PP could deliver whole fetuses.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

from what I remember correctly, just as an aside I don't think that they said it wasn't murder.  The brilliant legal tom foolery had something to do with indexing the interest of the state to protect the life of the unborn child to its level of development. 

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This is the part i have always hated about this debate, what DEBATE there is no debate.  A human being is a human being regardless of age.  wait wait wait.  Is it SENTIENT?  When you're unconscious on an operating table then you are no longer a sentient being either, but that doesn't give the care provider the right to kill you arbitrarily even if your wife and your life insurance agent think its a good idea. 

 

The entire concept of debating when life begins is based on a 19th century understanding of the concept.  now, as civilized evolved beings we know that the first instance that the genetic blue print for the third organism (or more in the case of twins etc.) is at the moment of conception.  That's not up for debate.  That's not up for romantic interpretation.  It doesn't matter what Richard dawkins or nancy Pelosi says on the matter, its an indisputable scientific FACT.  The idea that we as a society have turned a blind eye to the indiscriminate slaughter of some 70 million unborn children is our societies morbid undercurrent, like slavery to previous generations but we should have darn well known better.  

 

And in the case of planned parenthood, you can't even hide behind the flowery rhetoric of sentience or viability, this group fundamentally espouses abortion up until the day of birth and devotes millions of dollars to politically advance that cause.  

 

As to the general question of the legalities of the actions undertaken by planned parenthood the rationalizations are sobering.  For everyone clinging to the concept that these were simple reimbursements for cost of shipping, it doesn't cost 100 + per specimen to ship things.  you con't haggle over reimbursement you haggle over price for sale for profit.  you don't talk about having a Lamborghini when your just trying to reimburse the cost of forceps.  

 

Also it is illegal to alter the abortion procedure in any way for the extraction of fetal tissue and the staff is not to be made aware that the tissue is to be donated so that they are not tempted to do so.  I don't care how many times its edited, the context, the location, or what barney the dinosaur was doing in the background, when you have an abortion doctor say "I will Talk to Phil about using a less CRUNCHY method to preserve the specimen" then that's proof of a violation of the law.  

 

It doesn't matter if the tape showing you kill your wife in her sleep was edited to take out the recording your daughter did on movie night.  It doesn't change the fact that there is plain evidence that you killed her.  In this case there is plain evidence that these transactions were for financial benefit and that Planned Parenthood altered procedures for the procurement of said specimens.  

 

Even more alarming to those of you who may be pro choice, the videos being suppressed in California have to do with a company purchasing whole specimens from planned parenthood.  That means were no longer talking about in the mothers womb.  In the case of mid to late term abortions you have the potential that because of the preparation required that the mother could deliver early, that means that the child is born and has a fighting chance at life.  These barbarians deny the Child Medical care (Barrack Obama voted to support such practices in the Illinois state legislature) and in the latest tape that was released you have doctors bagging that when this happens they have an IN TACT SPECIMEN!

 

This isn't the debate about the girl in medical school who just found out she's 6 weeks pregnant but wants to be a doctor.  There's no flowery rhetoric to hid behind.  This is eugenic barbarism at its best coming to a low income neighborhood near you straight from the fourth Reich of the enigmatic Margret Sanger.  

 

P.S. you can't invoke Godwins law when talking about a concurrent eugenic cartel perpetrating Mass Slaughter!

 

Oh boy.

 

So tell me, when does "human life" begin? You never actually say when you believe (yes, it's a belief and not a fact) life begins. I'm assuming you are going with conception, but I'll give you a chance to correct yourself if that's true. Tread carefully, btw.

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Oh boy.


So tell me, when does "human life" begin? You never actually say when you believe (yes, it's a belief and not a fact) life begins. I'm assuming you are going with contraception, but I'll give you a chance to correct yourself if that's true. Tread carefully, btw.

I don't think life begins at contraception, isn't that the point?

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I don't think life begins at contraception, isn't that the point?

If life begins at contraception, you have done something wrong.

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What was your honest expectation of this thread?

 

Honestly, I did have the narrow hope that it would be about what was exposed since it appears to be illegal and in my opinion kind of sick.  I predicted in my mind though that it would eventually come down to whether or not abortion is right/wrong.

 

Of course it was going to degenerate into this. To the pro-birthers, it's mass murder. To the pro-choicers, it's facilitation of important scientific research. What's the difference between the two points of view? Whether a thing growing inside of a woman is a human life or not.


If I wasn't going to say what I'm about to, I guarantee you someone would launch into a tirade over that last sentence. Someone still may despite my essentially calling them on it. The actions of PP doctors are only criminal if the fetus is a living human being. There is no consensus on that, only high emotions and numerous arguments of questionable merit on both sides. Of course this became an abortion debate. What else could it have done?

 

Perhaps the discussion could be about what was revealed in the undercover videos?  It's not about abortion being right or wrong, it's about alleged criminal activity by an organization receiving federal funding.

 

The first "redirection" or deflection was because the videos are edited.  The full length un-edited versions have been linked to.

 

Next it started to turn towards the "merits" of Planned Parenthood and how allegedly "only" 3% of services that they provide are abortions.  There is also the "redirection" of some that claim that if Planned Parenthood loses federal funding, then several women would be without contraceptives, breast exams, etc.

 

It also started to turn towards a racial issue when the founder is brought up.

 

The fact of the matter is, it certainly looks like an organization that receives federal funding and contributes heavily towards democratic candidates is involved in illegal activity.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I don't think life begins at contraception, isn't that the point?

 

 

If life begins at contraception, you have done something wrong.

 

I actually did get a chuckle out of this.  :teehee:

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I don't think life begins at contraception, isn't that the point?

 

Obvious typo was obvious. Conception.

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Obvious typo was obvious. Conception.

 

Does an Immaculate Conception count?

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Does an Immaculate Conception count?

 

Ok?

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I just can't take people serious who believe that all abortions are wrong, no matter the situation. The guy I was replying to seems to believe that.

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If life begins at contraception, you have done something wrong.

 

It's only 99.9% effective

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