Quote:I imagine even if you were to include civilian deaths by British armed forces (in police action), you'd find the numbers aren't that much closer.
Now, there are plenty of justifiable reasons for a police officer to use his weapon. The problem is that we need to cut down on how often those justifiable reasons occur.
Videos have revealed something that many were aware of. But until you see it, it doesn't resonate.
Quote:I guess I'm kind of baffled. It isn't a competition. I think that amount of deaths with our citizens should be a huge concern. You can be pro cop and still think those numbers are staggering.
In 2014, 127 cops died while on duty. 19 of those were from a heart attack. 2 were accidental. That leave 106 for the year which is awful.
Quote:I think with advancements in technology we are seeing they are a big part of the problem. There is no main problem. There are lots of ingredients that add up to a whole. UK had someone killed once every 2 years. We have had 3 deaths (roughly) every day. We need to change the way we train our officers IMO. You can't ignore those numbers.
Of course, there are culture issues as well. The Eleventh Doctor also brought up relevant points about our culture. No matter how you slice it, we have a killing problem here in America from the top down.
You have taken a number and formed an opinion without actually understanding them. Have you determined how many of these police-involved shootings involved someone shooting at police? Stabbing police? Choking? Trying to drive over them?
It isn't a police problem with
a little bit of issues from the public. It's the other way around.
You can't compare the US to the UK and expect the same results. It's naive to do so.
Quote:You have taken a number and formed an opinion without actually understanding them. Have you determined how many of these police-involved shootings involved someone shooting at police? Stabbing police? Choking? Trying to drive over them?
It isn't a police problem with a little bit of issues from the public. It's the other way around.
You can't compare the US to the UK and expect the same results. It's naive to do so.
It's naive to think there isn't a problem with police and how they are trained. It is an issue and it'll be addressed. Just a matter of time. It is not all om the cops though. I realize that. The issues are deeper then that. Racism plays a key roll, but so does the response from people who are being arrested. The violence that goes on with civilians in the US is staggering. We have a gun problem in the US. As far as that goes, the numbers don't lie.
Yes, I understand the numbers don't tell the whole story. But it is staggering. At the very least it should encourage people to research the issue more. My point though was to create a topic and get different points of views on it.
Quote:It's naive to think there isn't a problem with police and how they are trained. It is an issue and it'll be addressed. Just a matter of time. It is not all om the cops though. I realize that. The issues are deeper then that. Racism plays a key roll, but so does the response from people who are being arrested. The violence that goes on with civilians in the US is staggering. We have a gun problem in the US. As far as that goes, the numbers don't lie.
Yes, I understand the numbers don't tell the whole story. But it is staggering. At the very least it should encourage people to research the issue more. My point though was to create a topic and get different points of views on it.
Maybe it's training. Maybe it's gun culture. Maybe it's some cops have complexes about having their power and authority questioned and take absurd action when it is. It's a many pronged issue.
Quote:It's naive to think there isn't a problem with police and how they are trained. It is an issue and it'll be addressed. Just a matter of time. It is not all om the cops though. I realize that. The issues are deeper then that. Racism plays a key roll, but so does the response from people who are being arrested. The violence that goes on with civilians in the US is staggering. We have a gun problem in the US. As far as that goes, the numbers don't lie.
Yes, I understand the numbers don't tell the whole story. But it is staggering. At the very least it should encourage people to research the issue more. My point though was to create a topic and get different points of views on it.
I see that a lot. People think the police need better training. How should they improve upon training? Everyone says this but no one offers ideas.
Now it's racism? How? I'm going to tell you, in the most simple of examples, why black neighborhoods receive more attention from police. They are, historically, more likely to commit crimes. Keep in mind, these are black neighborhoods where blacks are the offenders and victims. Robberies, burglaries, assaults, murders, etc. etc.
When the local commissioners see this, they put more police in those areas. More police = more police interactions. More police interactions in crime-filled neighborhoods in a country where everyone has a gun equals more police-involved shootings.
I promise you that if black people took this conviction and applied it toward self-reflection and fixing their neighborhoods, then they would see fewer police in their neighborhood.
Just a thought, if gun control is a factor why doesn't Switzerland have a death by police problem?
Quote:Just a thought, if gun control is a factor why doesn't Switzerland have a death by police problem?
Just so there's no confusion with my post, I'm not advocating more gun control. I'm simply saying that access to guns, for criminals, is not a difficult thing. I firmly believe that the problem in the US is the culture--black, white, hispanic, it doesn't matter.
Quote:Just so there's no confusion with my post, I'm not advocating more gun control. I'm simply saying that access to guns, for criminals, is not a difficult thing. I firmly believe that the problem in the US is the culture--black, white, hispanic, it doesn't matter.
Agreed it's a culture problem one way or another we have a culture problem.
Quote:Just a thought, if gun control is a factor why doesn't Switzerland have a death by police problem?
http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swi...hat-works/
My take? Smaller country that universally love their guns and respects safety and responsibility of all others. Does that sound even remotely like America as a whole to you?
Quote:Just a thought, if gun control is a factor why doesn't Switzerland have a death by police problem?
Probably because men in Switzerland age 18-34 are obliged to do military service. Gun ownership in Switzerland has to do more with serving your country than protecting your family (or to protect yourself against the government). Those who carry guns in public must pass specific examinations, and usually have to work in security. Men in switzerland after doing military service have to provide justification for keeping their firearm as well. Guns are more controlled in Switzerland than they are here.
Also worth noting that America has nearly twice the guns per 100 citizens as Switzerland. 88 vs 45.7.
Quote:Also worth noting that America has nearly twice the guns per 100 citizens as Switzerland. 88 vs 45.7.
I have 17 in my collection. Not one has or will ever be used in a crime. But the Swiss are closer to me culturally than the problem class.
Quote:I see that a lot. People think the police need better training. How should they improve upon training? Everyone says this but no one offers ideas.
Now it's racism? How? I'm going to tell you, in the most simple of examples, why black neighborhoods receive more attention from police. They are, historically, more likely to commit crimes. Keep in mind, these are black neighborhoods where blacks are the offenders and victims. Robberies, burglaries, assaults, murders, etc. etc.
When the local commissioners see this, they put more police in those areas. More police = more police interactions. More police interactions in crime-filled neighborhoods in a country where everyone has a gun equals more police-involved shootings.
I promise you that if black people took this conviction and applied it toward self-reflection and fixing their neighborhoods, then they would see fewer police in their neighborhood.
On your first point, somethings got to change. Better? Maybe. Different? Absolutely. They will change because they must.
On your second remark. I did not say it is all racism, but it is certainly a factor. <a>http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002</a>. Another interesting article from other cops:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/2...EV20141223. I could post articles for days on this, but it is alive and well in the system.
Here is something that stood out from that 2nd article: Reuters interviewed 25 African American male officers on the NYPD, 15 of whom are retired and 10 of whom are still serving. All but ONE said that, when off duty and out of uniform, they had been victims of racial profiling, which refers to using race or ethnicity as grounds for suspecting someone of having committed a crime. The officers said this included being pulled over for no reason, having their heads slammed against their cars, getting guns brandished in their faces, being thrown into prison vans and experiencing stop and frisks while shopping. The majority of the officers said they had been pulled over multiple times while driving. Five had had guns pulled on them.
Some of the other things you state are certainly other reasons. But you only see it from one side. I think if you lived in a black man's shoes you would look at the world differently. I guess my point is you only view it from one point of view,... yours and you don't consider that cops are part of the problem and racism is also part of the problem as well as the other things you mentioned.
Quote:Just so there's no confusion with my post, I'm not advocating more gun control. I'm simply saying that access to guns, for criminals, is not a difficult thing. I firmly believe that the problem in the US is the culture--black, white, hispanic, it doesn't matter.
Yes which would also include the policing culture as well.
Quote:I have 17 in my collection. Not one has or will ever be used in a crime. But the Swiss are closer to me culturally than the problem class.
You make watches and handy knives?
Quote:You make watches and handy knives?
Nope, it's the chocolate.
Quote:Nope, it's the chocolate.
It's ALWAYS the chocolate!!!
This country worships guns and money. End result isn't too difficult to forecast.