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This country, our society, has an overwhelming culture problem. It's a problem that largely has been neglected for years.  Neglected isn't exactly the word I'm looking for but is escapes me.  The attention has been misdirected, versus creating solutions to the culture problems, they get worse.  I don't know the answer but I sure wish I did.  

 

Don't even get me started on the #blacklivesmatter hashtag.  I could go on all day about that one.

Apples and oranges. It's kind of hard to kill a bunch of citizens when all you carry is a billy club.

Quote:On your first point, somethings got to change.  Better?  Maybe.  Different?  Absolutely.  They will change because they must.  

 

On your second remark.  I did not say it is all racism, but it is certainly a factor. <a>http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887324432004578304463789858002</a>.  Another interesting article from other cops: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/2...EV20141223.  I could post articles for days on this, but it is alive and well in the system.

 

Here is something that stood out from that 2nd article: Reuters interviewed 25 African American male officers on the NYPD, 15 of whom are retired and 10 of whom are still serving. All but ONE said that, when off duty and out of uniform, they had been victims of racial profiling, which refers to using race or ethnicity as grounds for suspecting someone of having committed a crime.  The officers said this included being pulled over for no reason, having their heads slammed against their cars, getting guns brandished in their faces, being thrown into prison vans and experiencing stop and frisks while shopping. The majority of the officers said they had been pulled over multiple times while driving. Five had had guns pulled on them.

 

Some of the other things you state are certainly other reasons.  But you only see it from one side.  I think if you lived in a black man's shoes you would look at the world differently.  I guess my point is you only view it from one point of view,... yours and you don't consider that cops are part of the problem and racism is also part of the problem as well as the other things you mentioned.

 

I'm always for better training, but I don't know how / why that's the default go-to for people that don't know how / where to improve the training. It's like people say because they don't know how to improve training. If you don't know how to improve the training, then I don't know how you can say it needs to be improved.

 

As for your second comment, it's irrelevant to the point at hand. I've personally witnessed a black Sergeant violate policy and state / federal law, threatened to sue the county, and was then promoted into a position he didn't deserve. I've seen inferior minority candidates promoted over extremely qualified candidates for nothing more than threatening their supervision with lawsuits should they not be promoted. Three examples come to mind. In these examples, are the minority officers valid in their concerns? No. They have a misconceived nothing that they're being overlooked because of their race when it's actually their skillset. On the slip side, I'm not naive enough to think a bad white candidate wasn't promoted over a better black candidate. 

 

Having said all that, my point is that police officer or not, people aren't immune from making absurd claims of racism. I think what you're talking about goes more into the cultural problem. People don't want to be the problem. They can't admit that THEY did something wrong, so they excuse it by saying something no one can disprove--racism. I believe, however, that's a different conversation for another day.

People of all races are racist. I just encountered someone on a Facebook page that I "like" that became irate over a video that was a spoof of the riots in Baltimore and how it and the people joking were "making light" of a man's death.


I tried to have a discussion with her and others. Every one of them was of a different race than I and they were racist towards "white people" and pushing #blacklivesmatter. We (people commenting) were called cave men, an image of "white supremacy bingo" was posted that was unbelievably racist, etc. One person saying "They fail to empathize because they do not recognize our humanity. It's disgusting to think these folks have this job." Another said that I was racist and refusing to be human, because I made it a point to bring up all lives matter. That the problem runs far deeper than a police problem, that society has deeper problems that need to be corrected. They claim the rioters are doing good, "we out here fighting for accountability" and they are creating a civil rights movement with #blacklivesmatter. I wasn't trying to argue that black lives don't matter, never once did I say that. I tried to argue that the criminals that were burning down buildings, looting from innocent businesses, destroying innocent people's property, were NOT part of a civil rights movement. They were NOT fighting for any accountability or protesting. They were taking advantage of a man's death in order to gain for themselves. It was nothing but an excuse for many to be a criminal. That's not protesting and that's not a positive for anyone.


She won't recognize how bad black on black crime, black on black shootings, black on black homicides are. That's not a problem to her, it's almost like that's "okay" and ignored. Why? I can't comprehend it. Maybe I come off wrong, maybe I'm misspeaking. I can't wrap my mind on how someone can be so hateful, blatantly racist, and blame it all on "white people" for their problems.


This is a Dispatcher page and all the people arguing were dispatchers. The hate I saw come from some of the people there was sad.


It ended with "White people love laughing at our pain. They are incapable of empathy because we are not human to them."


It makes me sad.

Police in the UK didn't even carry guns until just a few years ago.   They could do that because of the very strict gun control they had over there.   Criminals didn't carry guns, either.  

 

We live in a pretty violent society here in the US.   It's only natural the police would kill more people here than in the UK.  

 

We also have 5 times their population. 

Quote:Police in the UK didn't even carry guns until just a few years ago.   They could do that because of the very strict gun control they had over there.   Criminals didn't carry guns, either.  

 

We live in a pretty violent society here in the US.   It's only natural the police would kill more people here than in the UK.  

 

We also have 5 times their population. 

 

But the number is staggering.  The FBI estimated about 400 deaths per year by police officers.  I'm sure many of these were justified.  If we took that number over 115 years we would be looking at 46,000 deaths.  Keep in mind, these numbers are based on data reported and not everyone reports the data so the figure is probably low.  Even with the probably low figure, police in the US kills it citizens at a rate of 884 more times then the UK.  We can come up with reasons why our stats would be higher, but I just don't see how we can justify that figure to be so high.  

Quote:I'm always for better training, but I don't know how / why that's the default go-to for people that don't know how / where to improve the training. It's like people say because they don't know how to improve training. If you don't know how to improve the training, then I don't know how you can say it needs to be improved.

 

I think the point here is it needs to start happening.  It needs to be developed.  I won't pretend to know the answer, but can we do better?  If we can then lets do it.  It'll either happen by foresight or it'll be forced to happen.  As I said though, it will happen one way or another.  I do think body cameras are a huge step in that direction.  Think about this.  In Rialto, California, after cameras were introduced in February 2012, public complaints against officers plunged 88% compared with previous 12 months.  Officers' use of force fell by 60%.

 

So if cops are doing the right thing in general as we speak and we really don't need better training or change within law enforcement, why would body cameras have that big of an impact?  Use of force dropped by 60%!  Wow.  You really think most cops are doing the right thing?  I can't imagine a few bad apples would make that big of an impact on the numbers.

 

As for your second comment, it's irrelevant to the point at hand. I've personally witnessed a black Sergeant violate policy and state / federal law, threatened to sue the county, and was then promoted into a position he didn't deserve. I've seen inferior minority candidates promoted over extremely qualified candidates for nothing more than threatening their supervision with lawsuits should they not be promoted. Three examples come to mind. In these examples, are the minority officers valid in their concerns? No. They have a misconceived nothing that they're being overlooked because of their race when it's actually their skillset. On the slip side, I'm not naive enough to think a bad white candidate wasn't promoted over a better black candidate. 

 

How is black people serving longer sentences compared to white people who commit similar crimes irrelevant?  Really?  You think it is just a fluke?  20% longer.  I don't think it is irrelevant for the people serving longer sentences for the same crime.

 

Having said all that, my point is that police officer or not, people aren't immune from making absurd claims of racism. I think what you're talking about goes more into the cultural problem. People don't want to be the problem. They can't admit that THEY did something wrong, so they excuse it by saying something no one can disprove--racism. I believe, however, that's a different conversation for another day.

 

<b>I think the body cameras Rialto, California showed it is as much a police issue as it is a cultural issue within neighborhoods/communities.</b>

Hasnt changed in over 100 years. Instead of the wild west it's the wild north,south,east and west. With just more modern conveniences..like guns than can spit out record numbers of bullets in record time. And now there's no horse thieving , just car jackings.


Same crap with different " toys" .

Quote:Hasnt changed in over 100 years. Instead of the wild west it's the wild north,south,east and west. With just more modern conveniences..like guns than can spit out record numbers of bullets in record time. And now there's no horse thieving , just car jackings.


Same crap with different " toys" .

 

But things can change.  They proved that in Rialto, California.  

Quote:It's Gun Culture.

 

America's solution to gun violence is basically: More guns.   This has lead to the militarization of police.  Because when civilians have guns, police feel they need more guns too.  


Now I'm not advocating an outright gun ban.  I think in the hands of good people, guns are a good thing.  It's just that in the hands of bad people, they're a very bad thing.  I'm sure that people much smarter than me could come up with a solution that helps keep the guns out of the hands of bad people, without taking them from the good people who are responsible.  It's unfortunate we'll probably never see such a solution implemented however.

 

Yep. Were in way too deep to do anything now imo.

 

Morons like to claim just because some dudes in the 18th century claimed we should have guns to protect ourselves from an oppresive government, means that ordinary people should have military grade weapons now adays. Look at pretty much every other developed country in the world and none of them have a policy anything like this. Which obviously leads to less deaths and less crime. It really is a joke but like I said its way too late to realistically do anything about it. 

Quote:Yep. Were in way too deep to do anything now imo.

 

Morons like to claim just because some dudes in the 18th century claimed we should have guns to protect ourselves from an oppresive government, means that ordinary people should have military grade weapons now adays. Look at pretty much every other developed country in the world and none of them have a policy anything like this. Which obviously leads to less deaths and less crime. It really is a joke but like I said its way too late to realistically do anything about it. 

 

Morons?

Morons.

Quote:Morons.

 

weat:

Having lived in Germany for a couple of years I will say this. The attitude of Americans is vastly one of of arrogance and entitlement that I have seen nowhere else. On the whole we feel we deserve to act the way we do because we're from the Greatest Country in the World. With this attitude comes lack of respect for fellow Americans and authority figures. And the way 'role models' such as athletes and celebrities act, not to mention how glorified the gangsta lifestyle is.....then there are the politicians.


If you want to know why this is happening just look at what's on television, in magazines and at the movies. Radical individualism is killing this country. People don't look out for each other anymore, it's all about "what's in it for me" and that shapes our culture in ways you can't imagine.


Germany has their issues as well but lack of respect for each other and the authorities is rarely one of them. If a police officer stopped you and told you to empty your pockets and show your ID you just did it. I saw this several times and without incident. There was no screaming about rights and the cops went on their way.


As several have said though, the issue is broad and doesn't point to just one thing.

Quote:But things can change. They proved that in Rialto, California.

You know, if criminals know they're being taped it influences their behavior too.

Quote:You know, if criminals know they're being taped it influences their behavior too.

Good thing it applies to criminal cops then as well huh? 

 

People act better when they are aware they are being recorded. That's nothing new, what is more interesting is why there has been so much push back for years over the cameras being worn. 

Quote:Police in the UK didn't even carry guns until just a few years ago.   They could do that because of the very strict gun control they had over there.   Criminals didn't carry guns, either.  

 

We live in a pretty violent society here in the US.   It's only natural the police would kill more people here than in the UK.  

 

We also have 5 times their population.  the idiots

Fixed

Quote:Yep. Were in way too deep to do anything now imo.

 

Morons like to claim just because some dudes in the 18th century claimed we should have guns to protect ourselves from an oppresive government, means that ordinary people should have military grade weapons now adays. Look at pretty much every other developed country in the world and none of them have a policy anything like this. Which obviously leads to less deaths and less crime. It really is a joke but like I said its way too late to realistically do anything about it. 

 

Yes the 2nd Amendment is the cause of all the death in America.

 

If you want to ignore that just about all of those "civilized cultures" have been subject to tyrannical rule at some point and we haven't. But you know, those crazy right wingers and there guns I tell you!

Quote:Having lived in Germany for a couple of years I will say this. The attitude of Americans is vastly one of of arrogance and entitlement that I have seen nowhere else. On the whole we feel we deserve to act the way we do because we're from the Greatest Country in the World. With this attitude comes lack of respect for fellow Americans and authority figures. And the way 'role models' such as athletes and celebrities act, not to mention how glorified the gangsta lifestyle is.....then there are the politicians.


If you want to know why this is happening just look at what's on television, in magazines and at the movies. Radical individualism is killing this country. People don't look out for each other anymore, it's all about "what's in it for me" and that shapes our culture in ways you can't imagine.


Germany has their issues as well but lack of respect for each other and the authorities is rarely one of them. If a police officer stopped you and told you to empty your pockets and show your ID you just did it. I saw this several times and without incident. There was no screaming about rights and the cops went on their way.


As several have said though, the issue is broad and doesn't point to just one thing.

 

I disagree it's not the lack of individualism that has lead to our crisis of culture if anything it is the focus on the collective.

 

Focusing on the collective has let generations of families ignore the reality they are ultimately responsible for their well being and that of the generations to follow. focusing on the collective good of society has lead to the erosion of individual responsibility, accountability and ultimatum initiative to better ourselves. I love how everyone (not focusing this at you just ranting here) wants to point at how well things are done somewhere else, and yet this is the only place in the WORLD that has been free of tyrannical rule since it's founding.

 

We need a revival of radical individualism we don't have an excess of it, individualism requires ownership of ones decisions. There is no ownership in our society today, it's someone else fault, someone else built it, and someone else owns it. Give me individualism over collectivism all day every day. To hell with the collective.

Quote: Yes the 2nd Amendment is the cause of all the death in America.

 

If you want to ignore that just about all of those "civilized cultures" have been subject to tyrannical rule at some point and we haven't. But you know, those crazy right wingers and there guns I tell you!

Well the right wing crazy's sure like to pop off about the supposed tyrannical rule we are apparently living under at the moment.....