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Quote:Isn't a smaller player going to have a big advantage in all the agility and speed drills?
15 lbs will make a small difference, yes. Density is an important part of the #forceplayers# formula. However, in the case of Beasley vs Fowler the disparity in the drills was massive except for the dashes. Ironically the lighter player even doubled up the heavier player in the bench press, which you think would be the opposite.
Quote:In terms of these athletes? No. Vic is a better athlete and the tape/combine show it. It's not really discrediting Fowler, Beasley is a better athlete than most of the edge guys.
Plus if my memory serves me right the difference between the two is 15 pounds. Not 20.
Fowler weighed in at 265 at his pro day and regularly played around this weight. So the difference is closer to 20 lbs while Beasley had to pick up 15+ lbs after the season. Fowler is also a full two years younger than Beasley.
Quote:Fowler weighed in at 265 at his pro day and regularly played around this weight. So the difference is closer to 20 lbs while Beasley had to pick up 15+ lbs after the season. Fowler is also a full two years younger than Beasley.
Great, Beasley is still a better athlete.
Quote:Great, Beasley is still a better athlete.
Cool! Fowler is far and away the better football player.
I question Fowler's ability to win 1 on 1 as a pass rusher against premier talent. He was stuffed against the better tackles and even tight ends last year. Fowler's pass rush ability comes more from his versatility and being able to move him around to find mismatches.
Beasley consistently beat elite tackles and offers the same versatility. As far as pure pass rushing, Beasley is significantly better. The only question is if Beasley can hold up against power rush schemes.
I'll take the upside of Beasley over Fowler. Worst case is that you have a pass rusher that has to come off the field on rushing downs.
Quote:Cool! Fowler is far and away the better football player.
I disagree on that too but we'll probably have to agree to disagree based on what I've read here. Which is cool, differing opinions are needed on the board. I like Fowler but I think Beasley will be the better pro and will be more of an impact player at the next level. Especially in this defense.
Quote:I question Fowler's ability to win 1 on 1 as a pass rusher against premier talent. He was stuffed against the better tackles and even tight ends last year. Fowler's pass rush ability comes more from his versatility and being able to move him around to find mismatches.
Beasley consistently beat elite tackles and offers the same versatility. As far as pure pass rushing, Beasley is significantly better. The only question is if Beasley can hold up against power rush schemes.
I'll take the upside of Beasley over Fowler. Worst case is that you have a pass rusher that has to come off the field on rushing downs.
any people that say this just havent watched beasley enough or dont know what theyre watching.
Quote:any people that say this just havent watched beasley enough or dont know what theyre watching.
That say what? There were several things said about him there.
Quote:any people that say this just havent watched beasley enough or dont know what theyre watching.
Ha you don't know anymore or Amy better than he does to say this absolute of a statement.
I love when people throw statements like this around instead of offer up an argument.
Quote:That say what? There were several things said about him there.
about fowler failing to beat tackles and beasley consistently beating elite tackles. he didnt really beat the tackles, he mainly used a speed rush and went around them.
thats not going to happen in the NFL. hes going to have to do something besides speed rush.
there are certainly cases where it will work and his crazy athleticism and speed will win a match up.
but to say he consistently beat elite tackles isnt right. a lot of times he couldnt beat a tight end, or a blocking back if they met him head on. a lot like gregory he struggles to get off of blocks.
Quote:I question Fowler's ability to win 1 on 1 as a pass rusher against premier talent. He was stuffed against the better tackles and even tight ends last year. Fowler's pass rush ability comes more from his versatility and being able to move him around to find mismatches.
Beasley consistently beat elite tackles and offers the same versatility. As far as pure pass rushing, Beasley is significantly better. The only question is if Beasley can hold up against power rush schemes.
I'll take the upside of Beasley over Fowler. Worst case is that you have a pass rusher that has to come off the field on rushing downs.
who are these "elite tackles" Beasley consistently beat?
Not to derail the thread but I went back and watched the Georgia vs Clemson game from last year and man...Todd Gurley needs to be a Jaguar.
Quote:about fowler failing to beat tackles and beasley consistently beating elite tackles. he didnt really beat the tackles, he mainly used a speed rush and went around them.
thats not going to happen in the NFL. hes going to have to do something besides speed rush.
there are certainly cases where it will work and his crazy athleticism and speed will win a match up.
but to say he consistently beat elite tackles isnt right. a lot of times he couldnt beat a tight end, or a blocking back if they met him head on. a lot like gregory he struggles to get off of blocks.
Quote:who are these "elite tackles" Beasley consistently beat?
Against Florida State, Beasley beat Cam Erving twice for sacks when they weren't doubling him. He almost beat him two more times, including once with a back chipping him as well. He also decleated Nick O'Leary when they used him on Beasley.
Dante Fowler got dominated against La'el Collins and Cam Robinson. He even got stuffed by Alabama's tight ends.
Beasley used to be all speed off the edge. This season he developed a nice repertoire of rush moves. He's never going to be a bull rusher, but he can occasionally surprise people when he gets into them.
Quote:Against Florida State, Beasley beat Cam Erving twice for sacks when they weren't doubling him. He almost beat him two more times, including once with a back chipping him as well. He also decleated Nick O'Leary when they used him on Beasley.
Dante Fowler got dominated against La'el Collins and Cam Robinson. He even got stuffed by Alabama's tight ends.
Beasley used to be all speed off the edge. This season he developed a nice repertoire of rush moves. He's never going to be a bull rusher, but he can occasionally surprise people when he gets into them.
To be fair, Cam Erving is just ok as an LT prospect...he is elite as a C prospect.
Quote:To be fair, Cam Erving is just ok as an LT prospect...he is elite as a C prospect.
Was about to say that, I hope he dont think Erving was an elite LT. If that was the case they would of never moved him to center.
Quote:Was about to say that, I hope he dont think Erving was an elite LT. If that was the case they would of never moved him to center.
meh on erving, but collins is a beast of a man. still a little raw too.
Wow, seriously? He was moved to C because FSU had no center, but that had depth behind Erving. Erving was an elite LT and it made the line better as a whole to get 2 good players on the field as opposed to 1. Cam Erving wouldn't be drafted much lower as a LT than a C - maybe late 2nd.
I can't believe people are even arguing that someone with 33 sacks vs someone with 14 sacks is even debatable as far as pass rush ability goes. Especially when you consider Fowler feasted against right tackles and tight ends when Beasley was beating high level LTs.
Quote:Cool! Fowler is far and away the better football player.
33 must be less than 15 too...
We need a sack specialist for Leo
Beasley has the better name
Quote:33 must be less than 15 too...
We need a sack specialist for Leo
NFL draft is all about projection. They are both great players and I think they are potential pro bowlers in Gus' system.
Fowler can just do more at a high level. Speed rush, bull rush, delayed blitz, set the edge, get off blocks, violent, better hand usage, and really good at dropping back in coverage. I love Fowlers versatility. He's also only 20 while Beasleys 22.
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