Quote:I absolutely think Beasley would be a better OTTO than Fowler. Fowler miiiiight set the edge better (definitely not proven), but Beasley far better as the pass rusher and I have zero doubt Beasley would be better in coverage after some practice too. Beasley was a linebacker for a year after all, and his lateral movement skills would suggest far better capabilities in coverage.
There's just too many question marks for you to make a statement like that. Also, I'm not so sure Beasley is a better pass rusher than Fowler. It's closer than you believe.
<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout'>
Matt Miller<span>Verified account</span> @<b>nfldraftscout</b> </a>
<p class="">What I would do: Draft Dante Fowler at 3
<p class="">What I think they'll do: Draft Vic Beasley at 3
every argument is all about physical stats..... if we knew how good players would be just based on physical stats, we wouldnt have any busts ever.
Quote:every argument is all about physical stats..... if we knew how good players would be just based on physical stats, we wouldnt have any busts ever.
33 vs 15 was on the field though..not the combine
That is their sack totals
Quote:33>15
JJ Watt had 11.5 sacks his college career
Aldon Smith had 14.5
Its more than just numbers
Quote:I'm glad you brought that up. Benching 225 lbs 35x or whatever it was is impressive but Beasley does not play that strong. He gets stood up so many times when his speed rush fails him and it will fail him even more once he's in the league.
Note: Benching 225 lbs 35x has more to do with stamina and endurance than it does pure strength so don't confuse the two. Boselli benched only 23x I believe. All you have to do is be strong enough which Fowler is. Fowler is much stronger between the lines than Beasley and that's all that matters in my book.
I'm not arguing that Beasley plays the strongest of all the defensive linemen in the draft. The point is that you don't just push out 35 reps and lack the strength just to set an edge as a defensive end.
Beasley does get stood up a lot on his pass rush, but that's because he is mostly using speed rushes. Roy Miller would get stood up if he unsuccessfully did a speed rush from the outside as well. Look at his strength when he bull rushes. He absolutely jolts tackles - whether by surprise or by sheer strength, who knows, but it happens.
Fowler has a below average chest and a pudgy core.
I really don't know which is more stout at the point of attack between Beasley and Fowler. Beasley certainly sets an edge at times, but doesn't often 2 gap. Fowler, on the other hand, usually loses the battle against the elite tackles and is usually moved to LE when there are premier pass protectors on the offensive left side.
Quote:So 33 sacks a footballer player does not make?
Some people act like Beasley is a combine wonder…the dude produced on the field too
First, I AM a Beasley fan and have watched him play for 2+ years. So I am obviously not in the crowd that believes he's just a combine warrior.
Second, what I mean by football player is a player that can do everything like Fowler, at a high level I might add. Beasley is a pass rusher with a lot of question marks regarding his strength, ability to set the edge and get off blocks.
Quote:JJ Watt had 11.5 sacks his college career
Aldon Smith had 14.5
Its more than just numbers
Wasn't Watt more of 3-4 end at Wisconsin tho?
As someone else pointed out I don't think the rush opportunity between Fowler//Beasley was that great...
Quote:JJ Watt had 11.5 sacks his college career
Aldon Smith had 14.5
Its more than just numbers
JJ Watt also played tight end.
Quote:33>15
So lazy it's not even funny.
Quote:First, I AM a Beasley fan and have watched him play for 2+ years. So I am obviously not in the crowd that believes he's just a combine warrior.
Second, what I mean by football player is a player that can do everything like Fowler, at a high level I might add. Beasley is a pass rusher with a lot of question marks regarding his strength, ability to set the edge and get off blocks.
Leo is a position asked to rush the passer…rarely asked to set the edge or get off blocks to pursue the run.
Quote:his freshman year
So a tight end converting to 3 tech is supposed to light up career sack totals, especially in the conference that he played in?
Quote:I'm not arguing that Beasley plays the strongest of all the defensive linemen in the draft. The point is that you don't just push out 35 reps and lack the strength just to set an edge as a defensive end.
Fowler has a below average chest and a pudgy core.
I really don't know which is more stout at the point of attack between Beasley and Fowler. Beasley certainly sets an edge at times, but doesn't often 2 gap. Fowler, on the other hand, usually loses the battle against the elite tackles and is usually moved to LE when there are premier pass protectors on the offensive left side.
I don't want to make excuses for Fowler but he is only 20 yo and is a full 2 years younger than Beasley and his body shows that. He has not gotten to the stage in his life where it will be easier to get bigger and stronger. Fowler does have tree trunks for legs and that is where he gets his explosiveness and power.
Quote:So lazy it's not even funny.
You stated there is a difference in an athlete vs. a football player….
You are the one that stated Fowler is a better speed/bull rusher than Beasley...
The facts that we know don't support either…we have what our "not scout" eyes lead us to believe.
Hard stats at the combine lean heavily to Beasley….on the field production leans heavily toward Beasley.
But a blanket statement like yours on how Fowler is better in every aspect isn't lazy?
The bottom line is this in my book...
Fowler would make for a great 4-3 RDE with most teams, and would probably do ok at OTTO in Jacksonville. Beasley would probably do a comparable job at OTTO and might get overwhelmed in a traditional 4-3 RDE role, but he likely makes the Pro Bowl at LEO.
Quote:So a tight end converting to 3 tech is supposed to light up career sack totals, especially in the conference that he played in?
Michael Sam had 11.5 sacks his senior year and went 7th round and is out of the league in 1 year. Just pointing out sack numbers in college dont matter that much