Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:2014: 1.9

2013: -1.0

2012: 12.5

2011: -15.9

 

He's been all over the map.

2010: -3.2

 

Thanks.

Quote:I haven't seen that to be true.  They tend to be subjective.

 

Remember how Monroe's rating magically inflated when he became a Raven?

 

Ditto Pot Roast when he went to Denver.

 

Those players didn't get any better.  The guys around them were better.

 

As always, a grain of salt with their analysis.  I suspect there's a lot of observational bias.  Only, there's no telling how much and how prevalent.

 

Are you saying that PFF changed past ratings when the players changed teams?


 

Or are you saying that they graded better with their new teams? I'm assuming this is what you meant in my comments below.


 

In the case of Monroe, I remember a lot of people posting that his ratings with the Ravens weren't very good, but if you say they were better I'll take you word for it. He played well in 2012, but fell off in 2013 and was traded. The change to zone-blocking probably had a lot to do with that. I'd expect some improvement as he gained experience with the new blocking system, and it's not surprising that he didn't play well in his first six games. Beadles also had a bad start for the Jags but improved a lot as his familiarity with the offense increased. And Fisch's offense was pretty bizarre in some cases.


 

Knighton had a bad 2012, but that was after his eye injury which prevented him from working out most of that spring and summer. He was very good before that for the Jags, about as good as he was with Denver.

 

I find PFFs ratings for safeties and LBs to be very poor. It's hard to know a player's assignment and their evaluators are just guessing, especially in pass coverage. There can be guesses with the OL too, but most of the time it's pretty obvious which defender the lineman was supposed to block.

When know, when Thomas is on the other end of good QB play, what Thomas is capable of achieving. Like anyone else with the Jaguars, his success depends on Bortles. Whether or not he duplicates the 12 TD seasons is irrelevant. Without him, we don't have the potential at a TE that can catch 12 TDs, and Bortles doesn't have a legitimate red zone threat. 

 

There's a lot of speculation that Thomas was a product of Manning, but if you have seen his TDs, then you'd see that many of them are because of Thomas's physical abilities and talents.

 

Some were because he outran a defender.

 

Some were from a double-move that left him all alone.


Some were from a catch in traffic with multiple defenders hanging off of him.

 

Some were over-the-shoulder catches with arms extended.

 

He can line up anywhere on the line. He's too fast for most LBs, and he's too big for most CBs. He's a legitimate threat. 

Quote:When know, when Thomas is on the other end of good QB play, what Thomas is capable of achieving. Like anyone else with the Jaguars, his success depends on Bortles. Whether or not he duplicates the 12 TD seasons is irrelevant. Without him, we don't have the potential at a TE that can catch 12 TDs, and Bortles doesn't have a legitimate red zone threat. 

 

There's a lot of speculation that Thomas was a product of Manning, but if you have seen his TDs, then you'd see that many of them are because of Thomas's physical abilities and talents.

 

Some were because he outran a defender.

 

Some were from a double-move that left him all alone.

Some were from a catch in traffic with multiple defenders hanging off of him.

 

Some were over-the-shoulder catches with arms extended.

 

He can line up anywhere on the line. He's too fast for most LBs, and he's too big for most CBs. He's a legitimate threat. 

This  ^

 

 

I'm really, really tired of seeing "product of Manning" or "Manning effect" or "With-Manning numbers" everywhere I look.  

 

Dude is a deadly mismatch with good hands and  - with even a slight step forward by Bortles - I could see the addition of a weapon at TE changing the outcome of a few games for the Jags this season.  The Jags lost at least 3 games last year that would have been in the bag with a very average offensive performance. Thomas is the type of guy that can help this group get there.

 

Bortles' development is the lynchpin that decides whether it's a great signing or a gross overpayment for a meager return. 

 

I'm inclined to believe Julius Thomas will be an asset that helps this offense start fresh with a new identity.  Those writing him off are likely to be proven wrong, IMO. 

Quote:When know, when Thomas is on the other end of good QB play, what Thomas is capable of achieving. Like anyone else with the Jaguars, his success depends on Bortles. Whether or not he duplicates the 12 TD seasons is irrelevant. Without him, we don't have the potential at a TE that can catch 12 TDs, and Bortles doesn't have a legitimate red zone threat.


There's a lot of speculation that Thomas was a product of Manning, but if you have seen his TDs, then you'd see that many of them are because of Thomas's physical abilities and talents.


Some were because he outran a defender.


Some were from a double-move that left him all alone.

Some were from a catch in traffic with multiple defenders hanging off of him.


Some were over-the-shoulder catches with arms extended.


He can line up anywhere on the line. He's too fast for most LBs, and he's too big for most CBs. He's a legitimate threat.

this

if anyone is sick of hearing the manning references they should ask eric decker of his thoughts. 

Quote:if anyone is sick of hearing the manning references they should ask eric decker of his thoughts. 

 

Sure - if you think 2015 Bortles will play like 2014 Geno Smith  - it's a valid argument. 

I don't know if i'm a homer, but for a team that has talent and quite a few holes to fill... You go and have a free agency class like this, fill a few of those holes (especially at TE, LB and RT) and now that talent fuses. The team just got a lot better in my opinion. Good enough for 4 more wins. Those close games that have frustrated us the past couple of years

Quote:if anyone is sick of hearing the manning references they should ask eric decker of his thoughts. 

 

I know his stats were inflated by the season finale, but he still managed an okay season, and that's with what I assume, and hope, will be a much worse QB situation than ours in 2015. Just shy of 1,000 yards and over 70 catches - we haven't had that kind of production in like a decade! 

Quote:When know, when Thomas is on the other end of good QB play, what Thomas is capable of achieving. Like anyone else with the Jaguars, his success depends on Bortles. Whether or not he duplicates the 12 TD seasons is irrelevant. Without him, we don't have the potential at a TE that can catch 12 TDs, and Bortles doesn't have a legitimate red zone threat. 

 

There's a lot of speculation that Thomas was a product of Manning, but if you have seen his TDs, then you'd see that many of them are because of Thomas's physical abilities and talents.

 

Some were because he outran a defender.

 

Some were from a double-move that left him all alone.

Some were from a catch in traffic with multiple defenders hanging off of him.

 

Some were over-the-shoulder catches with arms extended.

 

He can line up anywhere on the line. He's too fast for most LBs, and he's too big for most CBs. He's a legitimate threat. 

 

Yes, I agree with all that.   The big thing for me is, he's a serious threat to the defense.  He has to be accounted for.  He will stretch the defense.  That will open things up for us all over the field, even if we aren't throwing to him on that particular play. 

 

This is one of the very best possible signings we could have had this offseason.  

How these signings made us better IMO: 

 

TE - definitely improved.  

RT and OTTO - almost certainly  improved.  

 

5Tech -  CB and ST - probably better but not as certain. 

FS - who knows? I expect a draft pick to compete. 

Hopefully, some day people will be questioning if any te or wr is a product of Bortles, or good on their own.

I think that with the players we've acquired from f/a so far that it's safe to say that we are now an improved team. F/a isn't over, but for the most part I think we've got what we'll get, and we do still have the draft in front of us. My only question now is... are we 'really' upgraded enough with these acquisitions that we can realistically hope to have a substantially better season in 2015? 

 

As I see it, our 'Achilles tendon' was our offensive lack of productivity, especially in the 'red zone', and that was mostly due to poor performance from our o-line. With what is hopefully an upgrade at RT and TE, is this going to be enough to tip the scale in our favor? With the exception of RT, we will have the same people on the o-line as last season and RT alone didn't account for such horrendously bad performance as we witnessed. I really hope that our struggling LT raises the level of his game this year or it's gonna be another long season.

 

It really doesn't matter if we've got the flash for a TE and superman for a running back if our quarterback is having to scramble hard anytime he wants to throw the ball.

I'll give it a B.  Skuta is the only real head scratcher in my opinion.  It's not a ton of money but it's a fair amount for a guy that I dont really see a need for.  

 

I really like the Odrick signing.  House got paid more than I would have guessed, but thats how free agency usually is I suppose, especially at a premier position.  I honestly don't know much about Parnell.  I keep reading how he played well when he started last year.  And obviously we need some depth.

 

Julius Thomas makes sense.  Although I dont love it.  It's a lot of money for an injury prone guy that had the luxury of having one of the greatest QBs of all time as well as really good WRs around him drawing coverage.  I've said in other threads I think the best thing he brings to the team is that if he completely vanishes, we'll know Bortles isnt good enough.  But I dont see Thomas being a game changer or the guy that opens up our offense.  But hey we have money to spend and he is obviously an upgrade in talent.

Quote:I'll give it a B.  Skuta is the only real head scratcher in my opinion.  It's not a ton of money but it's a fair amount for a guy that I dont really see a need for.  

 

I really like the Odrick signing.  House got paid more than I would have guessed, but thats how free agency usually is I suppose, especially at a premier position.  I honestly don't know much about Parnell.  I keep reading how he played well when he started last year.  And obviously we need some depth.

 

Julius Thomas makes sense.  Although I dont love it.  It's a lot of money for an injury prone guy that had the luxury of having one of the greatest QBs of all time as well as really good WRs around him drawing coverage.  I've said in other threads I think the best thing he brings to the team is that if he completely vanishes, we'll know Bortles isnt good enough.  But I dont see Thomas being a game changer or the guy that opens up our offense.  But hey we have money to spend and he is obviously an upgrade in talent.

Don't get why everyone keeps pointing out the money for Skuta. That was what the market was. JT Thomas got 3/12, the same per year. The ex Cowboy Bruce Allen got 4/20.5, so Skuta was same amount with an extra year. 

 

Skuta is easily better than both of them to me. 

Quote:Don't get why everyone keeps pointing out the money for Skuta. That was what the market was. JT Thomas got 3/12, the same per year. The ex Cowboy Bruce Allen got 4/20.5, so Skuta was same amount with an extra year. 

 

Skuta is easily better than both of them to me. 

 

Akeem Ayers just signed with the Rams. Not sure what the terms are, but the longer you get into free agency, the cheaper the deals are. He would have been a nice option as a strong side LB.

Quote:Akeem Ayers just signed with the Rams. Not sure what the terms are, but the longer you get into free agency, the cheaper the deals are. He would have been a nice option as a strong side LB.

Yes, perhaps if the Ayers from the past shows back up that could be a bargain I agree. Skuta is better than the Ayers of last year in my mind. The contract will be interesting. 

A link to the details of Odrick's contract. Very nicely structured. No signing bonus - all roster bonus. The Jags can walk away free and clear after 2016, or pay a $2 million roster bonus and his salary and keep him along.

 

http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2015/3/12/8...wn-jaguars

I will say Caldwell definitely excels at structuring contracts.

Is Bryan Walters included in this First Wave?