Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Oh ok, you think this Oline is good?  are you watching the games?  Bortles is under constant duress.

Jesus. When I said "there is plenty of blame to go around" did you think I meant something other than blaming the OLine?

Quote:Jesus. When I said "there is plenty of blame to go around" did you think I meant something other than blaming the OLine?

 

It seemed as if you were inferring that they didn't deserve the majority of blame... because they do.

 

Bortles is supposed to be the next Big Ben, right?  Watch Big Ben play and tell me if he's getting the ball out fast.  He buys time.  Always has, always will.  Yes, he will occasionally sack himself doing this, but more often than not he needs a clean pocket to operate.  Bortles rarely gets one.

I think Linder has learned how to block well, and refuses to unlearn it...

Quote:Bortles is supposed to be the next Big Ben, right?  Watch Big Ben play and tell me if he's getting the ball out fast.  He buys time.  Always has, always will.  Yes, he will occasionally sack himself doing this, but more often than not he needs a clean pocket to operate.  Bortles rarely gets one.

Comparing a rookie to a 10 year vet that's been to the Super Bowl...that's not very realistic.  Especially when it's not all on Bortles.  He has a rookie O-line and rookie receivers.

Quote:Comparing a rookie to a 10 year vet that's been to the Super Bowl...that's not very realistic.  Especially when it's not all on Bortles.  He has a rookie O-line and rookie receivers.

 

My point is that Bortles doesn't need to be told to "get the ball out quicker" when that is not what makes him good.  His greatest attribute is his ability to buy time and make plays.... like Big Ben.

 

Yes, there are obviously the plays where a quick throw is called for. Im not saying, NEVER THROW A QUICK PASS.  Im just saying the times where Bortles tries to scan the field and wait for the open guy, we shouldn't be blaming him when the pocket crumbles almost immediately.  What makes Bortles good is his improvisation skills.

@ryanohalloran: of Ravens eight sacks against #Jaguars, three came with extra blitzer and five with a four-man rush.


@ryanohalloran: times of sack (or Bortles in trouble): 2.75, 2.82, 2.53, 2.13, 3.66, 3.22, 4.16, 2.60. #jaguars

@ryanohalloran: #Jaguars only fifth team in last 11 years to allow more than 60 sacks in a season.

"times of sack" does not include the time where he was immediately pressured and thrown away

Quote:My point is that Bortles doesn't need to be told to "get the ball out quicker" when that is not what makes him good.  His greatest attribute is his ability to buy time and make plays.... like Big Ben.

 

Yes, there are obviously the plays where a quick throw is called for. Im not saying, NEVER THROW A QUICK PASS.  Im just saying the times where Bortles tries to scan the field and wait for the open guy, we shouldn't be blaming him when the pocket crumbles almost immediately.  What makes Bortles good is his improvisation skills.

I do agree he is best when improvising like Ben does.  Just so hard to do with so much inexperience around him.  Hopefully next year things open up quite a bit.

Quote:"times of sack" does not include the time where he was immediately pressured then sacked, or immediately pressured and thrown away

Regarding the former, that would be the "or Bortles in trouble" part of the tweet.

Quote:@ryanohalloran: of Ravens eight sacks against #Jaguars, three came with extra blitzer and five with a four-man rush.


@ryanohalloran: times of sack (or Bortles in trouble): 2.75, 2.82, 2.53, 2.13, 3.66, 3.22, 4.16, 2.60. #jaguars

Only two of those sacks are what I would consider enough time to say the QB held the ball too long.

 

If the QB doesn't have three real seconds of time to spot a guy and make a throw it's bad protection. Only the 3.66 and 4.16 times were good enough. I also recall Bortles first down throw to Marcedes deep in Jaguars territory as bad protection as he was hit immediately after releasing the pass on a pretty quick read and delivery.

Quote:Only two of those sacks are what I would consider enough time to say the QB held the ball too long.

 

If the QB doesn't have three real seconds of time to spot a guy and make a throw it's bad protection. Only the 3.66 and 4.16 times were good enough. I also recall Bortles first down throw to Marcedes deep in Jaguars territory as bad protection as he was hit immediately after releasing the pass on a pretty quick read and delivery.

I would probably have to agree with that. It seems like even when he isn't hit or sacked our guys are also often just pushed back to close to him. There rarely seems to be a clean pocket at all.

Quote:Only two of those sacks are what I would consider enough time to say the QB held the ball too long.

 

If the QB doesn't have three real seconds of time to spot a guy and make a throw it's bad protection. Only the 3.66 and 4.16 times were good enough. I also recall Bortles first down throw to Marcedes deep in Jaguars territory as bad protection as he was hit immediately after releasing the pass on a pretty quick read and delivery.

I'd be curious to see the replays of those two plays also.  I'd guess his first read was covered but curious what the rest of the field looked like. 

it's kind'a like the 'perfect storm' situation....we have an offensive line composed mostly of rookies. Our left tackle is not very big for a NFL tackle and gets beat often. None of our running backs are particularly known for their good blocking skills. We have a rookie quarterback who sometimes panics and runs out of the pocket and into rushers instead of just 'throwing the ball away' or just simply holds the ball too long.

 

So it's not like we can readily point to just one guy and say, 'yes, this is the weak link in the chain'. Our 'chain' as a whole is pretty weak. Bowanko and Linder are thought to be pretty good... but good compared to what? Our quarterback is getting sacked for record numbers and is getting hurt.

 

Gus said when interviewed that our line IS getting better... All I can say is...? We're getting our quarterback sacked 'big time', we're looking at a real possibility of finishing this season no better than 3-13, maybe 2-14. Because of the pocket pressure, Bortles is regressing in some areas as a quarterback. If that represents 'progress' for an offensive line then we need to stop progressing before our quarterback gets killed. 

Joekel. whoever is RT.

Quote:it's kind'a like the 'perfect storm' situation....we have an offensive line composed mostly of rookies. Our left tackle is not very big for a NFL tackle and gets beat often. None of our running backs are particularly known for their good blocking skills. We have a rookie quarterback who sometimes panics and runs out of the pocket and into rushers instead of just 'throwing the ball away' or just simply holds the ball too long.

 

So it's not like we can readily point to just one guy and say, 'yes, this is the weak link in the chain'. Our 'chain' as a whole is pretty weak. Bowanko and Linder are thought to be pretty good... but good compared to what? Our quarterback is getting sacked for record numbers and is getting hurt.

 

Gus said when interviewed that our line IS getting better... All I can say is...? We're getting our quarterback sacked 'big time', we're looking at a real possibility of finishing this season no better than 3-13, maybe 2-14. Because of the pocket pressure, Bortles is regressing in some areas as a quarterback. If that represents 'progress' for an offensive line then we need to stop progressing before our quarterback gets killed. 

Gus said the O-line is getting better so it must be true.  

 

Forget the record number of sacks given up. Forget the hits, the hurries, gosh darn it - if Gus says we are getting better, we are getting better.

Quote:The whole Oline, except Brandon Linder

Simple, quick, and correct.  You nailed it.  I'll give Joeckel another year, but maybe moving him to RT or LG would do him better.  He looks god awful.  And the people who think Bowanko is the answer must not be watching Jags games.

I'm gonna do a more scientific approach and do a grading system on our offense.

 

Jedd Fisch----D.................overall I think he is way over his head, especially on his ability to make adjustments to his play calling based on what is actually going on out on the field

 

OL (all of them) D............they have had moments (very few) where they looked like they might come around, but they are so bad it's really hard to find ANY bright spots (especially pass defense)

 

QB............C.............Average performance for his rookie season (sorta to be expected) has had moments where he looked atrocious and others where he looked pretty good (mostly atrocious)

 

DRob.......... A-.................one of the few bright spots for the most part, but has also had moments of so so games. Potential for really being really good is very strong. Nice surprise!

 

Toby Gerhart........C-...............big fan of him to have to be honest. Yes, he has been injured for most of the year but the times he was in, he was average.......not good like he was touted to be. IMO........he is such a "follow my blockers" kind of runner and that mix simply doesn't work with a line that rarely busts open a hole. Toby has poorly chosen his lanes and has lacked that vision to see an allternative and burst thru regardless of what his blockers are doing. Has NOT taken his great vision he had @ Stanford and applied it on an NFL level. Big Dis-appointment overall.

 

Todman.........that's a tough one As a returner.........B+ as a RB.........C..............I think he has performed pretty much as expected. He's worth keeping

 

Storm Johnson..............that's a tough one..........not gonna grade him at all because he has not been used much. It's not his fault either.

 

Receiving corp.  ..........C...............moments of brilliance, but overall average at best.

 

The JAGS are pretty much where they should be based on performance and actual talent. Little or no offense all year long that would look even more bleak if our defense wasn't the shining spot for the most part. Particularly, our DL. They have performed above and beyond............A grade.     linebackers and overall defense once the ball got past the front line is not too bad either. Would grade them a B- or high C. 

 

What does all this mean? Absolutely nothing, but maybe some of you will find it entertaining. I Welcome all well thought out critique of my assessments. What say you? 

Quote:I'm gonna do a more scientific approach and do a grading system on our offense.

 

Jedd Fisch----D.................overall I think he is way over his head, especially on his ability to make adjustments to his play calling based on what is actually going on out on the field

 

OL (all of them) D............they have had moments (very few) where they looked like they might come around, but they are so bad it's really hard to find ANY bright spots (especially pass defense)

 

QB............C.............Average performance for his rookie season (sorta to be expected) has had moments where he looked atrocious and others where he looked pretty good (mostly atrocious)

 

DRob.......... A-.................one of the few bright spots for the most part, but has also had moments of so so games. Potential for really being really good is very strong. Nice surprise!

 

Toby Gerhart........C-...............big fan of him to have to be honest. Yes, he has been injured for most of the year but the times he was in, he was average.......not good like he was touted to be. IMO........he is such a "follow my blockers" kind of runner and that mix simply doesn't work with a line that rarely busts open a hole. Toby has poorly chosen his lanes and has lacked that vision to see an allternative and burst thru regardless of what his blockers are doing. Has NOT taken his great vision he had @ Stanford and applied it on an NFL level. Big Dis-appointment overall.

 

Todman.........that's a tough one As a returner.........B+ as a RB.........C..............I think he has performed pretty much as expected. He's worth keeping

 

Storm Johnson..............that's a tough one..........not gonna grade him at all because he has not been used much. It's not his fault either.

 

Receiving corp.  ..........C...............moments of brilliance, but overall average at best.

 

The JAGS are pretty much where they should be based on performance and actual talent. Little or no offense all year long that would look even more bleak if our defense wasn't the shining spot for the most part. Particularly, our DL. They have performed above and beyond............A grade.     linebackers and overall defense once the ball got past the front line is not too bad either. Would grade them a B- or high C. 

 

What does all this mean? Absolutely nothing, but maybe some of you will find it entertaining. I Welcome all well thought out critique of my assessments. What say you? 

OL- Linder is a bright spot