Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:It's always a big difference.


Of course what's more concerning is the lack of progress.


By now the Jaguars should be starting to look like a team of guys that understand playing in the NFL. I'm not seeing enough of that.

This is exactly how I feel. I don't care that they're 2-11. It's how poorly they continue to look while getting to that 2-11 record. I have no confidence that were going to suddenly see some huge jump to success next season.


It would take improvement of historical proportions for this team to be competitive next year. Not just in terms of players and talent but in terms of coaching improvement as well.

Quote:This is exactly how I feel. I don't care that they're 2-11. It's how poorly they continue to look while getting to that 2-11 record. I have no confidence that were going to suddenly see some huge jump to success next season.


It would take improvement of historical proportions for this team to be competitive next year. Not just in terms of players and talent but in terms of coaching improvement as well.

 

I disagree.   I think if we get a decent offensive line, we will see a big jump in wins.   To me, 90% of our problems stem from poor offensive line play.  

Quote:I disagree.   I think if we get a decent offensive line, we will see a big jump in wins.   To me, 90% of our problems stem from poor offensive line play.  

 

Yes, that's part of it, but that's not all of it.

 

We see defenders take bad angles or just get slammed like Evans on Foster's long run yesterday.

 

We see Bortles throwing balls into the dirt.

 

We see WRs and TEs dropping passes that hit them in the hands.

 

We see offensive linemen that don't seem to understand their blocking assignments and that problem gets exacerbated by Robinson not seeming to be able to pick up a rushing backer.

 

I can say that I'm hopeful for the WR corp with Lee and Robinson, but the continuing inability of so many facets of the team to look like something more than practice team quality for more than a stretch of a few plays in a row is distressing.

Quote:Then Bradley needs to go too. You have to make those decisions when your team plays this poorly for this long. I don't see how Fisch should be brought back. The offenses continued ineptitude, particularly in the 2nd half, is something that should be unacceptable. I don't care how many rookies you're dealing with. This offensive system stunk from the get go.


He wasn't that good of an OC at Miami where he had talent to work with. He wasn't a good hire from day 1 and he should have been replaced after last year in my opinion.


I wish some of you were my boss. Perform poorly for two years running and you still don't need to worry about job security.

 

You couldn't be more on point!!  Leadership 101, if I have to fix the job for you then I don't need you.  If Caldwell hyopthetically has to fire Fisch because Bradley won't then Bradley isn't needed.  This team needs leadership, period!

Quote:Well, we already made Jags history a couple weeks ago with the Giants game.  So history making with Gus on the sidelines is possible.

Quote:You couldn't be more on point!! Leadership 101, if I have to fix the job for you then I don't need you. If Caldwell hyopthetically has to fire Fisch because Bradley won't then Bradley isn't needed. This team needs leadership, period!

Agreed.


Leadership is especially important when you have a roster as young as this team does.

Quote:I disagree. I think if we get a decent offensive line, we will see a big jump in wins. To me, 90% of our problems stem from poor offensive line play.

I disagree. While it is a part.of the problem, I think a poor offensive system is a larger issue. That can and should be addressed this offseason.

Quote:Yea, nothing quite like overspending on a bunch of guys who weren't good enough to be resigned by their other teams.

 

I'd call you ignorant, but it looks like a lot of other posters already have for me.. 

Quote:If Bradley stays (and maybe he does), Khan will be forced to do something to keep fan interest in this team.

 

The crowd we saw yesterday was very telling of the current state of this fanbase.

 

Without thousands and thousands of opposing fans, the stadium is going to be half empty.

 

Trotting Gus out there again next year is not going to move the needle.

 

The offseason is going to be a tipping point for Khan's ownership of this team. He is going to almost be forced to open his wallet in free agency. And it has to be the top free agents. No more bargain hunting. It has to be names like Devin McCourty, Julius Thomas, KJ Wright.

the only thing that was 'telling of the crowd yesterday' is that the weather people were off on that forecast. Most of the crowd that left early left because they weren't prepared to sit in cold, wet weather. Jaguars fans are among the most loyal in the NFL... loyal to a fault, really...

Quote:I disagree. While it is a part.of the problem, I think a poor offensive system is a larger issue. That can and should be addressed this offseason.

Could you give a specific example illustrating why this is a poor offensive system?


I am not looking for the results. We all know the results are not good.


I would like to know, if possible, how the poorly designed system leads to these poor results.


I hope I am not being unreasonable here. I would like some perspective.

Quote:Yea, nothing quite like overspending on a bunch of guys who weren't good enough to be resigned by their other teams.

Ugh....that was a Ketchman logic flashback.


Sometimes good players can leave teams.

Quote:Does anybody get fired in this scenario or just stay the course?

The only way I consider firing Bradley this year is if Sean Payton or Harbaugh are available and show interest in this job. Otherwise, next year, if the team does not show improvement... both in won loss record and performance overall...then maybe I pull the plug.

Quote:Honestly, the only position coach I would see being changed is Oline coach if Yarno can't come back next year.  Butkis has been doing it this year but he was supposed to be Yarno's assistant.  Just doesn't have the experience.

 

So I don't think the coaches should be fired.  The record doesn't show it, but I've seen what I expected to see this year.  Flashes thrown in with rookie mistakes.

I agree completely.

Quote:However, if he is to be a long-term solution he is going to have basically a miraclulous turn around

So what is the minimum standard of miraculous?


A .500 season.


Double digit wins?


Playoffs?

Quote:Bullseye, as usual your post is well reasoned and astute.

 

You really should be made a moderator, as you'd be an ideal representative of what a poster on the board should aspire to.

 

It's true that firing a coach is a difficult decision, though I think the main reason for that isn't because of scheme changes or anything of the like, it's because of the difficulty in finding a genuinely elite head coach.

 

It's why there is so much recycling of them. (Parcells is a good example of this, as was Jimmy Johnson)

 

If the Jaguars could get someone like Harbaugh or Cowher I think jettisoning a guy that has proven not to be a difference making head coach would make sense.

 

That said, I think without the possibility of getting an actual elite coach then it might be better over the long term to keep the same guys around another year to try to keep the environment stable for Bortles until he's reached a point in his development that he's ready for a real coach to come in and take him from the "developing the basics" stage into the elite stage.

Thanks for the kudos.


We agree completely regarding the circumstances surrounding firing Bradley.


If a guy like Harbaugh or Payton came available.... Guys proven to be able to develop QBs and build championship caliber teams, then I have to consider it.


Otherwise... Let Bradley continue.

Quote:You're preaching for stability which has merit.  However, every coaching staff, scheme, whatever has a ceiling.  If Bradley, Babich and Fisch are running a team in a manner that with reasonable talent, experience and execution can win a Super Bowl then I say sure, keep them.

 

However, I have not seen anything at all over the last 2 years from these guys that would make me believe they can win a Super Bowl even if we keep them for 10 years.

 

In your comments, you used the words "may, if, will, should, can, could, would, and assume" a combined total of 21 times.  That's a lot of hope and finger crossing that in my opinion is not worth betting on in a lifetime.

I agree some coaches and staffs have their limits..and time may prove Gus not up to the task.


But given the inexperience and talent deficiencies remaining on the roster, I don't think we have a true gauge of the ceiling of this staff until next year.

The best reason to keep the same coaching staff is to set an unbreakable record for most number of double-digit losses in a 4 year period. We already set it for 3 years, why not go down in the history books as the best team ever at being the worst? 

 

I'm tired of low standards - let's do this thing right!!

Quote:Could you give a specific example illustrating why this is a poor offensive system?


I am not looking for the results. We all know the results are not good.


I would like to know, if possible, how the poorly designed system leaves to these poor results.


I hope I am not being unreasonable here. I would like some perspective.

 

1.  Clearly the ZBS system isn't working.  Yes we have rookies in there.  But the pass protection and run blocking has not gotten better since week 4, and possibly could be argued is getting worse.

 

2.  We have an OC that calls plays that provide no rhythm.  Ex:  Wolverine ran 4-5 times yesterday that takes the ball out of BB5's hands, which impacts his feel for the game.  

    --In addition to that, the Wolverine was stuffed on the first attempt, it should have been obvious to abandon it.

 

3.  We had success in the read option against the Giants and on the first time we ran it yesterday.  We then abandoned it all together.  I believe we ran it 1 (maybe 2) other time(s), and the BB5 gave it to Shoelace who got stuffed on it.

 

4.  We rarely attack the middle of the field on passing plays.  I believe it was a couple weeks ago, that this was pointed out...  But basically we use the left or right side of the field and that's it.  We only pass in the middle of the field 10% of the time (if I recall correctly).  We're basically self selecting not to attack an area that could potentially help us get our outside recievers open.

 

5.  We have 2 large TE's that we rarely utilize.  Yes, Harbor had a gut wrenching drop yesterday, but other than that, he's been reliable in the passing game for the season.  Lewis had some good plays in the 1st half yesterday.  But on average, we only target the TE like 4 times per game.  That's simply not enough.  Good offenses, NFL offenses, target TE's constantly.

 

6.  We rarely have a safety blanket release up the middle.  Yesterday was the first time I saw the RB release up the middle to wait for a check down.  It was Gerhart, and it went for 10+ yards.  Most offenses have a release valve right in front of the QB, if not a TE streaking to get open up the middle.

 

7.  Where's the quick slant?  In situations where we have a bad o-line why not have a slot reciever run a quick slant to get fast yardage?

 

8.  We have a slow RB that we allow to run sweeps at least once a game.  I mean, this is self explanatory.  Any other coach would have abandoned the Gerhart sweep after week 2.  Yet we see it at least once per game..

 

That's just off the top of my head....

 

 

So yes, one may wish to keep the current coach of the offense for the sake of stability.  However, one could also argue that having a stable offense that is not capable of being successful in the NFL is a waste of time. 

Quote:1.  Clearly the ZBS system isn't working.  Yes we have rookies in there.  But the pass protection and run blocking has not gotten better since week 4, and possibly could be argued is getting worse.

 

2.  We have an OC that calls plays that provide no rhythm.  Ex:  Wolverine ran 4-5 times yesterday that takes the ball out of BB5's hands, which impacts his feel for the game.  

    --In addition to that, the Wolverine was stuffed on the first attempt, it should have been obvious to abandon it.

 

3.  We had success in the read option against the Giants and on the first time we ran it yesterday.  We then abandoned it all together.  I believe we ran it 1 (maybe 2) other time(s), and the BB5 gave it to Shoelace who got stuffed on it.

 

4.  We rarely attack the middle of the field on passing plays.  I believe it was a couple weeks ago, that this was pointed out...  But basically we use the left or right side of the field and that's it.  We only pass in the middle of the field 10% of the time (if I recall correctly).  We're basically self selecting not to attack an area that could potentially help us get our outside recievers open.

 

5.  We have 2 large TE's that we rarely utilize.  Yes, Harbor had a gut wrenching drop yesterday, but other than that, he's been reliable in the passing game for the season.  Lewis had some good plays in the 1st half yesterday.  But on average, we only target the TE like 4 times per game.  That's simply not enough.  Good offenses, NFL offenses, target TE's constantly.

 

6.  We rarely have a safety blanket release up the middle.  Yesterday was the first time I saw the RB release up the middle to wait for a check down.  It was Gerhart, and it went for 10+ yards.  Most offenses have a release valve right in front of the QB, if not a TE streaking to get open up the middle.

 

7.  Where's the quick slant?  In situations where we have a bad o-line why not have a slot reciever run a quick slant to get fast yardage?

 

8.  We have a slow RB that we allow to run sweeps at least once a game.  I mean, this is self explanatory.  Any other coach would have abandoned the Gerhart sweep after week 2.  Yet we see it at least once per game..

 

That's just off the top of my head....

 

 

So yes, one may wish to keep the current coach of the offense for the sake of stability.  However, one could also argue that having a stable offense that is not capable of being successful in the NFL is a waste of time. 

 

I may not agree with all...but #6 is one of the biggest helps for Andrew Luck.

Quote:I may not agree with all...but #6 is one of the biggest helps for Andrew Luck.

 

Watched part of the NE/SD night game, both those teams use it as well...