If you're eliminated from the playoffs, then wins don't really matter in any way that can be measured. They may make you feel good, but that's it.
Losing does the opposite. You feel bad watching it, but the better picks can measurably help your team going forward. Obviously that depends on you picking good players, but that's true regardless of where you pick. As a rule though, you'd prefer the higher pick through all rounds.
Having said that, it doesn't really matter. Nobody on the team is going to try to lose; we know this. So win or lose is going to happen naturally. And personally, even though I can understand that a higher pick is better long term for the team, my brain cannot stop my heart from rooting for the Jags while watching the game.
Quote:Glad our "Under the Bridge" contingent could chime in today.
They have to crawl out from under their rocks every so often. How else can they share their eternal negativity with the world?
I'm not for tanking at all but there were a LOT of people who were saying the wins at the end of the season last year meant something. That we could carry those wins and momentum into next season and be competitive.... how'd that work out?
Quote:I'm not for tanking at all but there were a LOT of people who were saying the wins at the end of the season last year meant something. That we could carry those wins and momentum into next season and be competitive.... how'd that work out?
If we had not won those games, the players might very well have checked out mentally, given up on the program, and on the coaching staff, and that would led to an unavoidable change in the coaching staff and the start of yet another rebuild from ground zero, churning the roster again, implementing yet another offensive and defensive scheme, and more pain for the fans, who might have also given up and quit buying tickets, thus forcing a move to another city.
You want to lose all 16 games if it means losing your team? Oh, but we got Teddy Bridgewater! Too bad he's playing in LA.
Okay, I exaggerate, but winning does mean something. It is never truly meaningless or worthless. At the very least, winning sells tickets.
Tanking is never a good strategy. Especially for a team that has struggled to keep fans involved.
Quote:If we had not won those games, the players might very well have checked out mentally, given up on the program, and on the coaching staff, and that would led to an unavoidable change in the coaching staff and the start of yet another rebuild from ground zero, churning the roster again, implementing yet another offensive and defensive scheme, and more pain for the fans, who might have also given up and quit buying tickets, thus forcing a move to another city.
You want to lose all 16 games if it means losing your team? Oh, but we got Teddy Bridgewater! Too bad he's playing in LA.
Okay, I exaggerate, but winning does mean something. It is never truly meaningless or worthless. At the very least, winning sells tickets.
Winning is fun, but 4 tough wins against other bottom feeders don't sell tickets any more than 2 tough wins against other bottom feeders do.
I enjoy the wins, but intellectually I understand the Jaguars aren't helping themselves with them at this point.
Quote:I'm not for tanking at all but there were a LOT of people who were saying the wins at the end of the season last year meant something. That we could carry those wins and momentum into next season and be competitive.... how'd that work out?
Nobody tanks. It's not something that happens in real life.
Quote:Winning is fun, but 4 tough wins against other bottom feeders don't sell tickets any more than 2 tough wins against other bottom feeders do.
I enjoy the wins, but intellectually I understand the Jaguars aren't helping themselves with them at this point.
I was in the stadium as usual, but after the first half, I had pretty much mentally thrown my season tickets into the garbage can. You have no idea now much fun it is for the fans to witness a win live in the stadium. It's a very strong reminder of why we buy season tickets. It's also a much needed reward to the players for all their hard work. It's probably very hard for players to keep going when they are never rewarded with wins.
So, to say winning doesn't help at this point is wrong, very wrong. Everyone in that stadium is a competitor, even the fans vicariously. A starving dog has to get a meal occasionally, or he will starve to death.
Quote:I was in the stadium as usual, but after the first half, I had pretty much mentally thrown my season tickets into the garbage can. You have no idea now much fun it is for the fans to witness a win live in the stadium. It's a very strong reminder of why we buy season tickets.
As a season ticket holder I can assure you I understand the difference.
I've left many a game with nothing but a feeling of queasiness not from the stadium burgers but from the product on the field.
Whether the Jaguars win 2 or 4 games doesn't affect whether I'll renew in the slightest.
Quote:Nobody tanks. It's not something that happens in real life.
I always thought it was a myth too. How would you go about telling professional sportsmen they have to throw a load of games ? Regardless of their ability, most would be too proud to do it.
Anyway, not having a top pick may turn out to be a blessing if it forces us to pick someone for the OL.
Quote:As a season ticket holder I can assure you I understand the difference.
I've left many a game with nothing but a feeling of queasiness not from the stadium burgers but from the product on the field.
Whether the Jaguars win 2 or 4 games doesn't affect whether I'll renew in the slightest.
That's great. I'm glad you say that. But there are a lot of fans who need that feeling of winning to get them fired up to buy season tickets. And I'm sure that if we had to endure several more years of losing 10 to 14 games a year, you'd question your season ticket commitment, too. Fans have to have hope to buy tickets. And if you continue to crush their hope, without ever letting them see a win, the stadium will be empty before long. That's one very good reason why these wins are important. The more wins, the more fan support. The fewer wins, the more fan support will shrink. Most of those fans don't care if we have the #1 pick or the #6 pick. They just don't want to feel like they wasted their Sunday.
The same sort of thing applies to players. They need to be rewarded for their hard work, even if it's just the 3rd or 4th win in a 16 game season. They need to go into the offseason with hope, too, because they have some very long days of pumping iron ahead of them.
Quote:I always thought it was a myth too. How would you go about telling professional sportsmen they have to throw a load of games ? Regardless of their ability, most would be too proud to do it.
Anyway, not having a top pick may turn out to be a blessing if it forces us to pick someone for the OL.
Yes, and also, tell them the reason they are throwing games is so we can draft their replacement. That'll work.
By the way, when Polian and Caldwell where "tanking for Luck" I wonder if anyone told them they were going to be fired for doing such a good job of tanking?
Quote:That's great. I'm glad you say that. But there are a lot of fans who need that feeling of winning to get them fired up to buy season tickets. And I'm sure that if we had to endure several more years of losing 10 to 14 games a year, you'd question your season ticket commitment, too. Fans have to have hope to buy tickets. And if you continue to crush their hope, without ever letting them see a win, the stadium will be empty before long. That's one very good reason why these wins are important. The more wins, the more fan support. The fewer wins, the more fan support will shrink. Most of those fans don't care if we have the #1 pick or the #6 pick. They just don't want to feel like they wasted their Sunday.
The same sort of thing applies to players. They need to be rewarded for their hard work, even if it's just the 3rd or 4th win in a 16 game season. They need to go into the offseason with hope, too, because they have some very long days of pumping iron ahead of them.
An interesting thing I heard in the game the other day is that this season is the first time since 2011 that the Jaguars have won more than one game at Everbank Field.
If winning in front of the crowds was what mattered then the Jaguars wouldn't be able to sell tickets right now.
Tickets have been getting sold on passion and hunger for football, not because the Jaguars won 3 away games instead of 1.
I just don't think the difference between 1 home win and 2 home wins sells tickets.
Quote:I always thought it was a myth too. How would you go about telling professional sportsmen they have to throw a load of games?
Well, you wouldn't tell them that. Presumably you'd find guys with lingering injuries and let them rest/sit or IR them. You'd play bottom roster guys to "get them some play time and see what you've got", etc. This type of thing happens at the end of bad seasons pretty often, you'd just expand on that. Though in our case, we're already playing all of the young guys, so nothing really to gain there.
That isn't to say that we will try to tank, I don't think that. But as for "how" you would accomplish it, you'd just tilt the odds against your team by playing your rookies/younger guys/depth more.
Quote:Well, you wouldn't tell them that. Presumably you'd find guys with lingering injuries and let them rest/sit or IR them. You'd play bottom roster guys to "get them some play time and see what you've got", etc. This type of thing happens at the end of bad seasons pretty often, you'd just expand on that. Though in our case, we're already playing all of the young guys, so nothing really to gain there.
That isn't to say that we will try to tank, I don't think that. But as for "how" you would accomplish it, you'd just tilt the odds against your team by playing your rookies/younger guys/depth more.
It is absurd that people seem to think you'd need top to bottom conspiracy in order to tank or draft position. Only the head personnel guy and head coach need to be in on it.
Quote:Well, you wouldn't tell them that. Presumably you'd find guys with lingering injuries and let them rest/sit or IR them. You'd play bottom roster guys to "get them some play time and see what you've got", etc. This type of thing happens at the end of bad seasons pretty often, you'd just expand on that. Though in our case, we're already playing all of the young guys, so nothing really to gain there.
That isn't to say that we will try to tank, I don't think that. But as for "how" you would accomplish it, you'd just tilt the odds against your team by playing your rookies/younger guys/depth more.
If that's the case then it could be argued that the Jags are tanking this season.
Quote:An interesting thing I heard in the game the other day is that this season is the first time since 2011 that the Jaguars have won more than one game at Everbank Field.
If winning in front of the crowds was what mattered then the Jaguars wouldn't be able to sell tickets right now.
Tickets have been getting sold on passion and hunger for football, not because the Jaguars won 3 away games instead of 1.
I just don't think the difference between 1 home win and 2 home wins sells tickets.
After the first half Sunday, there were people all around me commenting that they felt like they had wasted their time and money buying a ticket to that game. That is the truth.
And after the second half, we were pretty darn happy and looking forward to more football in the stadium.
We can go on and on about this, but the fact is, winning sells tickets. Even if it's just one extra win in a 2 win season. Fans have to have hope.
Quote:After the first half Sunday, there were people all around me commenting that they felt like they had wasted their time and money buying a ticket to that game. That is the truth.
And after the second half, we were pretty darn happy and looking forward to more football in the stadium.
We can go on and on about this, but the fact is, winning sells tickets. Even if it's just one extra win in a 2 win season. Fans have to have hope.
I've heard the same things.
That's short term meaningless grumbling.
If winning were what mattered the Jaguars would already be in Los Angeles.
Quote:It is absurd that people seem to think you'd need top to bottom conspiracy in order to tank or draft position. Only the head personnel guy and head coach need to be in on it.
Do you think the Colts tanked for Luck? Because the head personnel guy and the head coach both got fired after that season.
Quote:If that's the case then it could be argued that the Jags are tanking this season.
I suppose, but I think it depends on whether you have better players / veterans but you're choosing to play the young guys. If your young guys are playing because they're honestly the best you've got, then I don't think I'd portray it that way.
Though keep in mind, most teams make those kinds of choices to get young guys play time once they are out of playoff contention, and that's not even really disputed. Nor is it really disputed that doing that makes them a worse team in the short term, with the idea that it makes them a better team in the future by getting those young guys play time now, and giving the team tape to evaluate during the off season. That doing this probably also improves their draft position isn't a bad little side effect.
But again, before someone inevitably starts arguing a point I'm not making, I'm not saying the Jags are going to tank. We're already playing all of our young guys.