Quote:I've heard the same things.
That's short term meaningless grumbling.
If winning were what mattered the Jaguars would already be in Los Angeles.
Well, if you want to read people's minds without even being there, more power to you. I can tell you, the only mind I can read is my own, and in my case, it was not meaningless grumbling. I doubt it was for the other people, too.
You say we sell tickets because of hunger for football. But I have had loads of people tell me losing is no fun. And "no fun" means "I ain't buyin' no more tickets to this garbage."
If you think you can tank on purpose and not have it damage your season ticket base, you are crazy. Likewise, if you think one win doesn't mean anything in terms of selling tickets, that is also wrong, especially to a victory-starved fanbase like ours.
Quote:Glad our "Under the Bridge" contingent could chime in today.
I'm just here to piss on your weak takes son.
Quote:Do you think the Colts tanked for Luck? Because the head personnel guy and the head coach both got fired after that season.
I do think they tanked for them, and the head coach and GM getting fired has nothing to do with the former.
Why do you think it matters that they got fired?
Quote:I suppose, but I think it depends on whether you have better players / veterans but you're choosing to play the young guys. If your young guys are playing because they're honestly the best you've got, then I don't think I'd portray it that way.
Though keep in mind, most teams make those kinds of choices to get young guys play time once they are out of playoff contention, and that's not even really disputed. Nor is it really disputed that doing that makes them a worse team in the short term, with the idea that it makes them a better team in the future by getting those young guys play time now, and giving the team tape to evaluate during the off season. That doing this probably also improves their draft position isn't a bad little side effect.
But again, before someone inevitably starts arguing a point I'm not making, I'm not saying the Jags are going to tank. We're already playing all of our young guys.
"Tanking" means losing on purpose. Playing younger players may increase the chances of losing, but it is not tanking, because it's not done for the purpose of losing.
Quote:I do think they tanked for them, and the head coach and GM getting fired has nothing to do with the former.
Why do you think it matters that they got fired?
Who tanked. then? Who made that decision and how did they do it? Do you think the owner told them to tank and then double-crossed them by firing them?
Quote:I do think they tanked for them, and the head coach and GM getting fired has nothing to do with the former.
Why do you think it matters that they got fired?
So the Polians tanked so they could get fired and the next GM could reap the benefits? Or was it Caldwell so he could get fired and never coach Luck? Did they get paid off to tank like someone on this board claimed Kubiak did last year?
Quote:Who tanked. then? Who made that decision and how did they do it? Do you think the owner told them to tank and then double-crossed them by firing them?
Double crossed them? THEY GOT PAID!
That's what people like yourself don't seem to get. The NFL is a good old boys network, and the contracts for front office and coaches are guaranteed, unlike the players.
The guys that "got fired" still got paid, and since they didn't speak out about what was done there they weren't blackballed.
Caldwell is coaching in Detroit now and Polian was old and likely to retire soon anyway.
Quote:Do you think the Colts tanked for Luck? Because the head personnel guy and the head coach both got fired after that season.
I personally don't think so. I think they had a bad roster that was held together by Peyton Manning, and his loss turned that team into a loser. I also think once it became clear they had no offense without him, the rest of the team did quit on the season.
I think the loss of Peyton exposed the failures that had been happening for a while, but for which HOF QB play was providing cover.
Having said that, I don't think that situation means the actions I'm describing don't happen. Lots of management who are taking a longer view of their team and management will be amenable to the idea that playing younger guys to improve the team for the future will pay off, despite taking a short term hit in a season that is already lost.
Quote:"Tanking" means losing on purpose. Playing younger players may increase the chances of losing, but it is not tanking, because it's not done for the purpose of losing.
It's all in perspective. The outcome is losing in the short term. The argument is that it improves your team in the long term. That's the argument you'd take to the owner. You wouldn't say "Hey, I think we should stop trying to win games"!
If you take actions knowing it will make your team worse in the short term, I call that tanking the current season. The question was on how you could accomplish that without calling a big team meeting and telling everyone to stop trying.
Quote:Double crossed them? THEY GOT PAID!
That's what people like yourself don't seem to get. The NFL is a good old boys network, and the contracts for front office and coaches are guaranteed, unlike the players.
The guys that "got fired" still got paid, and since they didn't speak out about what was done there they weren't blackballed.
Caldwell is coaching in Detroit now and Polian was old and likely to retire soon anyway.
Man, what a conspiracy. Take off your tin foil hat for a second and consider the fact that no one will willingly damage their career and their legacy by tanking. And since their contracts are guaranteed, then why wouldn't they just say, no, I won't do it, I will not tank! What's the upside for them from intentionally losing games? What do they get out of it? They got fired! But their contracts are guaranteed, you say. So then why would they lose games on purpose and get fired? That makes no sense at all, because they could have just as easily refused, they had nothing to lose by refusing. Their contracts were guaranteed!
Quote:Double crossed them? THEY GOT PAID!
That's what people like yourself don't seem to get. The NFL is a good old boys network, and the contracts for front office and coaches are guaranteed, unlike the players.
The guys that "got fired" still got paid, and since they didn't speak out about what was done there they weren't blackballed.
Caldwell is coaching in Detroit now and Polian was old and likely to retire soon anyway.
No offense. This is just dumb.
Quote:Man, what a conspiracy. Take off your tin foil hat for a second and consider the fact that no one will willingly damage their career and their legacy by tanking. And since their contracts are guaranteed, then why wouldn't they just say, no, I won't do it, I will not tank!
They would damage their career and legacy by failing to follow direction.
If Caldwell and Polian had said, "no, that's wrong, we're not going to do that." then not only would they have been fired, they (and Polian's offspring) wouldn't be working anywhere in the NFL right now.
That you really think the NFL is some honorable organization whose members never do anything wrong is what I find disturbing.
Conspiracies are exposed and covered up and glossed over on a regular basis. Remember the NE filming scandal? That didn't come from within, that only made any headlines because the guy actually kept the tape. Same with the Saints bounty scandal, the NFL glosses over stuff as quickly as possible, but it's really a pretty dirty group.
Quote:They would damage their career and legacy by failing to follow direction.
If Caldwell and Polian had said, "no, that's wrong, we're not going to do that." then not only would they have been fired, they (and Polian's offspring) wouldn't be working anywhere in the NFL right now.
That you really think the NFL is some honorable organization whose members never do anything wrong is what I find disturbing.
Conspiracies are exposed and covered up and glossed over on a regular basis. Remember the NE filming scandal? That didn't come from within, that only made any headlines because the guy actually kept the tape. Same with the Saints bounty scandal, the NFL glosses over stuff as quickly as possible, but it's really a pretty dirty group.
Damage their career by refusing to lose games on purpose? Do you really think the Colts' owner could call another owner and tell him that he had told Polian and Caldwell to lose on purpose, but they had refused, so
don't hire them because "they don't follow direction"?
You're getting farther and farther out on a limb here. This is getting more and more ridiculous.
Quote:Damage their career by refusing to lose games on purpose? Do you really think the Colts' owner could call another owner and tell him that he had told Polian and Caldwell to lose on purpose, but they had refused, so don't hire them because "they don't follow direction"?
You're getting farther and farther out on a limb here. This is getting more and more ridiculous.
That you really think the NFL ownership, a group of only 32, doesn't collude on everything then you're beyond reasonable discussion of what goes on in the league.
Quote:That you really think the NFL ownership, a group of only 32, doesn't collude on everything then you're beyond reasonable discussion of what goes on in the league.
You're talking about colluding to cheat each other out of the first pick in the draft. How does that work? Is the Colts' owner going to call another owner and tell him not to hire Polian and Caldwell because they refused to engage in a conspiracy to cheat the other losing teams out of the first pick in the draft? You think the other owners wouldn't say, "Oh, you tried to cheat your way to the first pick in the draft, and now you want to tell me who I can and cannot hire to run my team?"
Tanking in the NFL is mythological.
People don't work their way into the pinnacle echelon of their field in order to jeopardize their jobs by intentionally losing games.
Owners aren't dumb enough to demand it because there are no guarantees in the draft. Even the most sure-fire prospect can sustain catastrophic injury and we've all seen players bust that everyone thought would save a franchise.
Here's a third reason it hasn't happened. Someone would've talked by now. There's not an owner out there willing to spend the hush money to compete with the ensuing book deal, Hollywood move licensing, talk show circuit and years of royalty checks from all of them. The first person to squeal on such a scandal has all of that and more ready and waiting. Are you gonna' tell me that owner x - is going to pay coach x - 10 million dollars on top of his salary and severance (because he's fired for losing) so that he won't tell that story?? Nah. I a'int buying it.
We all no the NFL is shady. But individuals who work their way into it don't lose intentionally for draft picks. They try to win to keep their jobs.
Quote:You're talking about colluding to cheat each other out of the first pick in the draft. How does that work? Is the Colts' owner going to call another owner and tell him not to hire Polian and Caldwell because they refused to engage in a conspiracy to cheat the other losing teams out of the first pick in the draft? You think the other owners wouldn't say, "Oh, you tried to cheat your way to the first pick in the draft, and now you want to tell me who I can and cannot hire to run my team?"
I think all of the owners know that a lot of things happen. I also think the ownership is very exclusionary because of it. They don't let people in that won't go along with the program.
For some reason Indianapolis has been a favored team in the league for a long time now. First the NFL bailed them out when they were going to crash into the salary cap in the middle of last decade, and now the NFL let them get away with tanking for the best QB prospect since Manning.
Quote:Someone would've talked by now.
So which one? Caldwell? Polian? Irsay?
Why would any of them talk?
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