Quote:Just stop, we went over this already. You're wrong, and you're stupid to still be touting that idiocy after it's already been shown you're wrong.
Keep yapping out of your Karl Marx Playbook........
It will get you nowhere
Quote:I know, it's such a burden on those rich people paying someone to clean their pool to have to see their ID and call an immigration status hotline.
It could be something to keep the ICE people busy, have them go around doing it sting style then write out a big ticket when they catch people who would just hire some bum without checking to make sure they're an actual American.
Still, though, for the employers that actually hire or are run by illegals, landscaping companies or employees, just make sure they're verifying their employees and if they're not, the guy running the business can go to jail.
You think only rich people hire someone to clean their pool?
So you think ICE running around in immigration vans and doing undercover stings to catch home owners not check immigration papers is a viable option? lol
Fine go after employers I don't have a problem with it, but the reality is 70-80% of them are not employed by someone, they work for themselves. You'll never rid a country this big with this massive of a population of cheap labor, you can tax it, you can legislate it, you can punish it, but there will always be cheap black market labor.
Quote:You think only rich people hire someone to clean their pool?
So you think ICE running around in immigration vans and doing undercover stings to catch home owners not check immigration papers is a viable option? lol
Fine go after employers I don't have a problem with it, but the reality is 70-80% of them are not employed by someone, they work for themselves. You'll never rid a country this big with this massive of a population of cheap labor, you can tax it, you can legislate it, you can punish it, but there will always be cheap black market labor.
I think it's a more viable option than building a wall along the border between Texas and Mexico.
Where are you pulling that 70-80% statistic from?
Quote:Did I ever mention deportation as a solution?
I'm wondering if I did, because you keep bringing it up. Maybe someone else did, and you're responding to them. If so, then my apologies.
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Most of them actually hold jobs in manufacturing, Service, food preperation and construction jobs. But we should be going after private individuals who hire them as well. (of course then we'd have 90% of congress in prison)
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Manufacturing companies already have some of the most strict regulations out of all the industries. If that's not stopping illegal hiring what will? Service jobs, food preparation, construction especially these are all jobs where it's near impossible to trace down employers, the majority of them are self employed. Find pass legislation making it a felony to hire an illegal for private work. Do you really think regardless of what legislation they pass the majority of people are going to stop and check immigration status before hiring someone to cut their yard, clean their pool, clean their house, change their tires, or buy vegetables and fruits from a stand on the side of the road?
Quote:I think it's a more viable option than building a wall along the border between Texas and Mexico.
Where are you pulling that 70-80% statistic from?
Who the hell said build a wall!? I said you could build a 100ft wall and they'd find a 110ft ladder. Of course a wall isn't the solution!
Obviously there's no official number on what percent of illegal immigrants are self employed, It's a best guess based on living in Florida all my life. What number would you like to assign to it?
Quote:Manufacturing companies already have some of the most strict regulations out of all the industries. If that's not stopping illegal hiring what will? Service jobs, food preparation, construction especially these are all jobs where it's near impossible to trace down employers, the majority of them are self employed. Find pass legislation making it a felony to hire an illegal for private work. Do you really think regardless of what legislation they pass the majority of people are going to stop and check immigration status before hiring someone to cut their yard, clean their pool, clean their house, change their tires, or buy vegetables and fruits from a stand on the side of the road?
The reason illegals get hired is because they're great employees. They work for next to nothing, and if the boss wants them to put in 3 extra hours of overtime off the clock all that they need to do is threaten to call ICE. And the reason for that is because the punishment all goes in the wrong direction. The illegals shouldn't be the ones getting in trouble for trying to get a job and a better life in the USA, it's employers who hire illegals because they don't want to have to pay a fair wage and adhere to workplace regulations that need to go to jail.
Quote:Obviously there's no official number on what percent of illegal immigrants are self employed, It's a best guess based on living in Florida all my life. What number would you like to assign to it?
We don't need to assign a number, my point was everything you type up here is coming directly out of your rear end.
Quote:The reason illegals get hired is because they're great employees. They work for next to nothing, and if the boss wants them to put in 3 extra hours of overtime off the clock all that they need to do is threaten to call ICE. And the reason for that is because the punishment all goes in the wrong direction. The illegals shouldn't be the ones getting in trouble for trying to get a job and a better life in the USA, it's employers who hire illegals because they don't want to have to pay a fair wage and adhere to workplace regulations that need to go to jail.
.gif "Laughing")
still holding on to this idea it's big corporations hiring all the illegals to work in an underground slave market I see. Minimum wage is cheap enough and there's enough unskilled workers legally it's not corporations hiring illegals, it's private individuals.
Quote:We don't need to assign a number, my point was everything you type up here is coming directly out of your rear end.
Name one just ONE corporation hiring all these illegals. Name one that's been caught doing it, I mean if 5 million people are here working illegally someone has to have got caught right?
Quote: still holding on to this idea it's big corporations hiring all the illegals to work in an underground slave market I see. Minimum wage is cheap enough and there's enough unskilled workers legally it's not corporations hiring illegals, it's private individuals.
We've already established that you have no basis for that assertion.
Quote:Manufacturing companies already have some of the most strict regulations out of all the industries. If that's not stopping illegal hiring what will? Service jobs, food preparation, construction especially these are all jobs where it's near impossible to trace down employers, the majority of them are self employed. Find pass legislation making it a felony to hire an illegal for private work. Do you really think regardless of what legislation they pass the majority of people are going to stop and check immigration status before hiring someone to cut their yard, clean their pool, clean their house, change their tires, or buy vegetables and fruits from a stand on the side of the road?
People should be cutting their own yards (I know I do!) or hiring someone from the neighborhood to do it if they're lazy. They should also be cleaning their own pool (again, I know we do!) If they want someone to clean their house (instead of, again, doing it themselves like we do!) they can hire a company. Changing their tires? I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to go to a major mechanic to get my tires changed. I don't pay someone on the street to do it.
Ignorance does not excuse breaking the law. If they break the law by hiring illegal immigrants, they should face the consequences. Just as they would for a different violation of the law that they don't know about.
Quote:Name one just ONE corporation hiring all these illegals. Name one that's been caught doing it, I mean if 5 million people are here working illegally someone has to have got caught right?
Chipotle. 450 Chipolte workers in Minnesota did not have documentation. That's just in one state. And it's a state that doesn't have a lot of undocumented workers to begin with.
And there's this:
Quote:
ICE now uses tools like I-9 audits, fines, and debarment to combat the hiring of illegal immigrants, which might account for more than 700,000 of the industry’s 12.8 million employees, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.
Quote:And this is Just in California........
According to CBS News, California is on pace to be paying out $650 million this year to illegals in welfare benefits.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.tpnn.com/2014/11/18/guess-how-much-california-taxpayers-are-paying-in-welfare-benefits-to-illegals-this-year/'>http://www.tpnn.com/2014/11/18/guess-how-much-california-taxpayers-are-paying-in-welfare-benefits-to-illegals-this-year/</a>
It's funny now these liberals only pick and choose what to believe. How come no one has responded to this post?
Quote:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=companies+caught+hi...immigrants
your first link 238 managers nation wide. 339 companies in all of 2011, you know how small of a drop in the bucket those numbers are?
Quote:People should be cutting their own yards (I know I do!) or hiring someone from the neighborhood to do it if they're lazy. They should also be cleaning their own pool (again, I know we do!) If they want someone to clean their house (instead of, again, doing it themselves like we do!) they can hire a company. Changing their tires? I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to go to a major mechanic to get my tires changed. I don't pay someone on the street to do it.
Ignorance does not excuse breaking the law. If they break the law by hiring illegal immigrants, they should face the consequences. Just as they would for a different violation of the law that they don't know about.
Chipotle. 450 Chipolte workers in Minnesota did not have documentation. That's just in one state. And it's a state that doesn't have a lot of undocumented workers to begin with.
5 million workers, I've looked and have been hard pressed to even find one close to the chipolte 450. Again the majority of them are self employed or working as contractors day to day. I have no problem with closing down every business hiring illegals, throwing everyone that hires them at their house in jail, but it's not going to fix anything and would be near impossible to manage.
What we need congress to do is pass that E-Verify law, that way anyone with a computer can check someone legal status
U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization. This diverse workforce contributes greatly to the vibrancy and strength of our economy, but that same strength also attracts unauthorized employment.
E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.
http://www.uscis.gov/e-verify
Quote:your first link 238 managers nation wide. 339 companies in all of 2011, you know how small of a drop in the bucket those numbers are?
5 million workers, I've looked and have been hard pressed to even find one close to the chipolte 450. Again the majority of them are self employed or working as contractors day to day. I have no problem with closing down every business hiring illegals, throwing everyone that hires them at their house in jail, but it's not going to fix anything and would be near impossible to manage.
It's really not that hard to manage, people just need the proper motivation to make them check.
For most people a few hundred dollars fine is probably enough, for businesses that hire illegals the penalties need to be stiffer.
Still, I find it humorous that in the face of overwhelming evidence you continue to argue your imaginary statistics regarding illegal immigrant labor distribution. I suppose I shouldn't be at all surprised, it's what you've done in almost every discussion I've been witness to you in.
If their taxed and not leaching off the welfare system I'm all for OPEN immigration, heck let the people work and better themselves. The last thing I want is a national database to be checked anytime you're entering a transaction, talk about police state.
I swear people don't look past the now, you know how dangerous that is?
Quote:5 million workers, I've looked and have been hard pressed to even find one close to the chipolte 450. Again the majority of them are self employed or working as contractors day to day. I have no problem with closing down every business hiring illegals, throwing everyone that hires them at their house in jail, but it's not going to fix anything and would be near impossible to manage.
ICE estimates 700,000 in the fast food industry alone.
I have yet to see you source your "majority of them are self-employed" bit. Other than anecdotal evidence. I mean I could mention that anytime I go to home depot, I see illegal aliens working there. People who can't speak english, and who you know aren't there legally (and this is even backed by a neighbor of mine, who is hispanic and very much pro-illegal immigrant, though he's here legally himself). A friend of mine (who has been jobless for some time) tried to apply to a job for Home Depot some time back. They didn't have any english applications there. Only ones in Spanish (and he can't speak Spanish)
Quote:It's really not that hard to manage, people just need the proper motivation to make them check.
For most people a few hundred dollars fine is probably enough, for businesses that hire illegals the penalties need to be stiffer.
Still, I find it humorous that in the face of overwhelming evidence you continue to argue your imaginary statistics regarding illegal immigrant labor distribution. I suppose I shouldn't be at all surprised, it's what you've done in almost every discussion I've been witness to you in.
You've found drops in the bucket and you're sitting here telling me the problem is corporations hiring all these illegals for cheap labor. Just ask yourself on Saturday are the illegals standing inside working for home depot or standing outside waiting for joe blow to hire someone to help him build a deck?
Sometimes the evidence is common sense, I get why that might confuse an intellectual like yourself.
Quote:If their taxed and not leaching off the welfare system I'm all for OPEN immigration, heck let the people work and better themselves. The last thing I want is a national database to be checked anytime you're entering a transaction, talk about police state.
I swear people don't look past the now, you know how dangerous that is?
Then what is your problem with Obama's plan? That he's the one who came up with it?
That it doesn't go far enough? Because he's essentially giving them worker visas, which will have them pay taxes.