Quote:ICE estimates 700,000 in the fast food industry alone.
I have yet to see you source your "majority of them are self-employed" bit. Other than anecdotal evidence. I mean I could mention that anytime I go to home depot, I see illegal aliens working there. People who can't speak english, and who you know aren't there legally (and this is even backed by a neighbor of mine, who is hispanic and very much pro-illegal immigrant, though he's here legally himself). A friend of mine (who has been jobless for some time) tried to apply to a job for Home Depot some time back. They didn't have any english applications there. Only ones in Spanish (and he can't speak Spanish)
I'm calling BS on the home depot, I know personally several people that work for them and the background check takes days to come back. You also have to provide documentation during the interviews and take aptitude test. Same thing for Lowe's I worked for them during the summer one year.
Quote:The reason illegals get hired is because they're great employees. They work for next to nothing, and if the boss wants them to put in 3 extra hours of overtime off the clock all that they need to do is threaten to call ICE. And the reason for that is because the punishment all goes in the wrong direction. The illegals shouldn't be the ones getting in trouble for trying to get a job and a better life in the USA, it's employers who hire illegals because they don't want to have to pay a fair wage and adhere to workplace regulations that need to go to jail.
This is so far off base its comical.
Quote:Then what is your problem with Obama's plan? That he's the one who came up with it?
That it doesn't go far enough? Because he's essentially giving them worker visas, which will have them pay taxes.
The proposals are not the issue, it's how they're being done is the issue. It goes far beyond the intention of executive orders.
Quote:I'm calling [BAD WORD REMOVED] on the home depot, I know personally several people that work for them and the background check takes days to come back. You also have to provide documentation during the interviews and take aptitude test. Same thing for Lowe's I worked for them during the summer one year.
You've still yet to provide a source for "MOST OF THEM ARE SELF EMPLOYED" except an anecdote. Which I'm now going to call [BAD WORD REMOVED].
The Lowes here doesn't have any undocumented immigrants here that I'm aware of, but Home Depot
most certainly does. I don't care how much you try to say it's BS. Maybe the home depot where you live doesn't. I couldn't say. But the one up here most certainly does.
Quote:This is so far off base its comical.
shhh employers call ICE to report they hired illegals that are not cooperating.
<span>Sacramento County Sheriff to President Obama: “It is your singular failure alone as to why we do not yet have reform – why America continues to be at risk, and new crimes and new victims are mounting each and every day in every single state.”
Sheriff Scott Jones has taken the president to task over immigration in a video that has now gone viral.
http://bit.ly/1vtDz8n</span>
Quote:The proposals are not the issue, it's how they're being done is the issue. It goes far beyond the intention of executive orders.
Do you understand what executive orders are? They're not laws decreed by the president, they're directions on how to work within the legal framework provided for the executive branch by the legislative branch.
Quote:You've still yet to provide a source for "MOST OF THEM ARE SELF EMPLOYED" except an anecdote. Which I'm now going to call [BAD WORD REMOVED].
The Lowes here doesn't have any undocumented immigrants here that I'm aware of, but Home Depot most certainly does. I don't care how much you try to say it's [BAD WORD REMOVED]. Maybe the home depot where you live doesn't. I couldn't say. But the one up here most certainly does.
I'd say call immigration then, Home Depot is a national corporation their not even franchised. That would be a huge national story if one of the biggest retailers in America is hiring illegal workers not to mention it would be pretty easy to verify being their payroll system is 100% digital. They don't give out paper checks anymore both Lowes and Home Depot require direct deposit payments or their loaded onto prepaid cards that require a social security number to open.
Quote:Do you understand what executive orders are? They're not laws decreed by the president, they're directions on how to work within the legal framework provided for the executive branch by the legislative branch.
It's because I know what executive orders are that I have a problem with how this is being done.
Quote:Then punish people for hiring illegals, too.
You are correct that a lot of illegals do odd jobs for cash, but you don't fix that problem with a bad tax change that shifts all the burden to the poor and middle class.
That would be like arresting people for drugs. It would not have the intended result you think it would and would cost a ton of money to do.
Quote:This is so far off base its comical.
Yea, the idea that an employer would call Ice itself is certainly comical because they would be in trouble too.
However, equally comical is the idea it's people who are employing illegals.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6626823'>http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6626823</a>
That's an oldie but a goodie^^
Quote:What we need congress to do is pass that E-Verify law, that way anyone with a computer can check someone legal status
U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization. This diverse workforce contributes greatly to the vibrancy and strength of our economy, but that same strength also attracts unauthorized employment.
E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.
http://www.uscis.gov/e-verify
Wouldn't something like this be a huge privacy violation, like say a national gun registry?
Quote:Shoot, just outside my local Home Depot you'll see a grouip of them standing in the parking lot looking for work. Where's ICE when you need them?
ICE would love to. They've been neutered. At this point, they are pretty much only allowed to do prison checks for illegals.
Quote:Then punish people for hiring illegals, too.
You are correct that a lot of illegals do odd jobs for cash, but you don't fix that problem with a bad tax change that shifts all the burden to the poor and middle class.
Impossible.
You are going to require anyone who hires a guy to mow his lawn to provide proof that he's a citizen or resident? Does the general public have access to IAFIS and IDENT federal government computer systems?
If not, all the person that did the hiring has to do is not confess and say that they didn't know.
It would be nearly impossible to prosecute private individuals and very difficult to fine them.
Quote:The reason illegals get hired is because they're great employees. They work for next to nothing, and if the boss wants them to put in 3 extra hours of overtime off the clock all that they need to do is threaten to call ICE. And the reason for that is because the punishment all goes in the wrong direction. The illegals shouldn't be the ones getting in trouble for trying to get a job and a better life in the USA, it's employers who hire illegals because they don't want to have to pay a fair wage and adhere to workplace regulations that need to go to jail.
Despite you having a strong dislike for capitalism, it's not greedy corporate bosses that hire illegals under a pretense of breaking labor laws and blackmailing them. The fact of the matter is that most of the people have legal status when hired and let the status lapse, becoming illegal. I've been at jobs before that had illegals and they weren't indentured servants. They were paid the same and treated the same as anyone else.
So far it sounds pretty reasonable to me.
What Obama has outlined is fine, I don't have a problem with what he's proposed in his speech. So long as that's what really is going on it's all common sense stuff. Republicans would be stupid to kick up a dust storm about any of this.
If the GOP was smart they would pass legislation creating a path to citizenship for all illegals but make it so that they have to pay so much in back taxes and are ineligible for welfare for ___ period of years.
Quote:What Obama has outlined is fine, I don't have a problem with what he's proposed in his speech. So long as that's what really is going on it's all common sense stuff. Republicans would be stupid to kick up a dust storm about any of this.
If the tenets he outlined are adhered to, it's a good law. Unfortunately the law will be abused, neglected, and twisted for political gain.