Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:That is fair and accurate.

 

As to the part in bold, I hope TC values Caldwell's input and respects Marrone's wishes as it comes to personnel needs, and doesn't try to fit square pegs into round holes.

 

I suspect that was one of the reasons Marrone left Buffalo.  Supposedly he was vehemently opposed to the trade up to land Sammy Watkins.

 

Its funny, but I was looking at the Jaguars draft and my goodness, if not for the 1st rounders under TC's regime...those drafts were a-w-f-u-l. Fortunately, Dave has shown the ability to find some talent in later rounds.

Quote:Its funny, but I was looking at the Jaguars draft and my goodness, if not for the 1st rounders under TC's regime...those drafts were a-w-f-u-l. Fortunately, Dave has shown the ability to find some talent in later rounds.

That is PRECISELY my concern about bringing TC in.

 

I don't want TC's presence, which may be short lived here, to cause Caldwell to leave.

 

I think TCs presence lends credibility to a franchise that needs it.

 

But Caldwell has done a good job drafting here.

Let Coughlin draft the 1st rounder and then have Caldwell take over for rounds 2-7.

Easier to scout guys now than it was 20 years ago.  Plus Caldwell and his scouting department is different than what TC had back then.

Quote:Easier to scout guys now than it was 20 years ago.  Plus Caldwell and his scouting department is different than what TC had back then.

Doesn't matter how good Caldwell is if Coughlin gets power hungry and decides he's just going to pick and choose whoever he wants, regardless of the work Caldwell has done.

Quote:Doesn't matter how good Caldwell is if Coughlin gets power hungry and decides he's just going to pick and choose whoever he wants, regardless of the work Caldwell has done.

Doesn't sound like that's Tom Coughlin to me. All I hear about TC is how he wants what is best for the team. Was that way his first time here when he had multiple guys he very much listened to while he built the team.

Quote:Doesn't sound like that's Tom Coughlin to me. All I hear about TC is how he wants what is best for the team. Was that way his first time here when he had multiple guys he very much listened to while he built the team.

 

Odds are that he'll believe his choices are best for the team.

Quote:Doesn't sound like that's Tom Coughlin to me. All I hear about TC is how he wants what is best for the team. Was that way his first time here when he had multiple guys he very much listened to while he built the team.

Which is what I hope, but he's already blocked Marrone from hiring a coach. I just hope it's not a sign of things to come.

Quote:That is PRECISELY my concern about bringing TC in.

 

I don't want TC's presence, which may be short lived here, to cause Caldwell to leave.

 

I think TCs presence lends credibility to a franchise that needs it.

 

But Caldwell has done a good job drafting here.

 

 

I think it's evident that Mr. Khan places a great deal of value in Dave and definitely wants him in the organization.

Quote:Which is what I hope, but he's already blocked Marrone from hiring a coach. I just hope it's not a sign of things to come.

 

 

well,  he is the boss.  He can act like a boss, and he has a resume to back it up.  

 

Honestly I am completely OK with Tom running the show however he wants, he has a history of success unlike anyone else in the room.

Quote:I think it's evident that Mr. Khan places a great deal of value in Dave and definitely wants him in the organization.

True, but that doesn't mean Caldwell wont just walk away if he feels he's just a person sitting in the room. Doing a bunch of work and it's all for nothing because Coughlin wants to do everything his way and his way only.

 

If he truly has the final say over the 53, then at the end of the day, what's the point of even having Caldwell still here if Coughlin gets to pick and choose who he wants regardless?

Quote:well,  he is the boss.  He can act like a boss, and he has a resume to back it up.  

 

Honestly I am completely OK with Tom running the show however he wants, he has a history of success unlike anyone else in the room.

His draft resume is not that good. 1st round he made some great picks, beyond the 1st round he was pretty dang bad.

Quote:His draft resume is not that good. 1st round he made some great picks, beyond the 1st round he was pretty dang bad.

 

I wouldn't say that honestly.  Also - the 1st round is by far the most important.

 

does Dave have a better resume?  No, I don't think so.  His 2014 draft class is pretty good by most accounts but lets see how it looks in 2 years. 

 

Even though we have a lot of guys playing that dave drafted - it doesn't mean they were good picks unless we actually start winning.  

Quote:I wouldn't say that honestly.  Also - the 1st round is by far the most important.

 

does Dave have a better resume?  No, I don't think so.  His 2014 draft class is pretty good by most accounts but lets see how it looks in 2 years. 

 

Even though we have a lot of guys playing that dave drafted - it doesn't mean they were good picks unless we actually start winning.  

1st round picks are very important, I agree 100%. That's ideally where you hope to find your stars at.

 

However, the middle rounds are absolutely where you build the depth of your team.

 

Outside of his 1st round picks and Brackens/Meester (both 2nd round), who else really stands out as good picks? They really were pretty bad beyond the 1st round.

 

Dave has definitely hit on guys in the middle rounds. This season will be very telling if his picks were being held back by coaching, or not.

Quote:True, but that doesn't mean Caldwell wont just walk away if he feels he's just a person sitting in the room. Doing a bunch of work and it's all for nothing because Coughlin wants to do everything his way and his way only.

 

If he truly has the final say over the 53, then at the end of the day, what's the point of even having Caldwell still here if Coughlin gets to pick and choose who he wants regardless?

 

No doubt, it has to hurt Dave's pride.  But there are only 32 gm jobs and 32 Personnel Director jobs.  And he's got one with the function of the other.  He's in an organization with one of the best owners in the league who believes in him and values him.  He gets to keep building his resume and essentially take a graduate degree of how to lead men up close and personal from TC.  He'll emerge better.  I think he's smart to stay.

Quote:No doubt, it has to hurt Dave's pride.  But there are only 32 gm jobs and 32 Personnel Director jobs.  And he's got one with the function of the other.  He's in an organization with one of the best owners in the league who believes in him and values him.  He gets to keep building his resume and essentially take a graduate degree of how to lead men up close and personal from TC.  He'll emerge better.  I think he's smart to stay.

I agree, I don't see him walking away, as you said it's a privilege to be a HC, GM, etc in the NFL. Plus it would be a bad look for him to just walk away from his job.

 

I hope they can all work together and he can pick Coughlin's brain to pieces, as he should. There's many of years of football knowledge in that brain.

 

I just don't want to see Coughlin get too power hungry and think he knows better than everybody, in every area, no matter what. While he knows a lot, nobody knows everything and Dave has shown he absolutely has an eye for talent.

Quote:1st round picks are very important, I agree 100%. That's ideally where you hope to find your stars at.

 

However, the middle rounds are absolutely where you build the depth of your team.

 

Outside of his 1st round picks and Brackens/Meester (both 2nd round), who else really stands out as good picks? They really were pretty bad beyond the 1st round.

 

Dave has definitely hit on guys in the middle rounds. This season will be very telling if his picks were being held back by coaching, or not.

Aaron Beasley

Quote:Aaron Beasley

Ok add Beasley, still doesn't change anything in the sense that he was still pretty bad at drafting beyond the 1st round.

Quote:Ok add Beasley, still doesn't change anything in the sense that he was still pretty bad at drafting beyond the 1st round.

 

 

I think you're being too harsh on his drafts.. I just looked at them - and he had plenty of decent picks in mid to lower rounds.

 

maybe you don't remember those early days in jaguars history?  

 

95 - boselli, stewart came in the 1st round.

 

chris hudson was a very solid pick that played good football for a few years for us.   if you're going to give caldwell a plus for a guy like aaron colvin - you have to give coughlin credit for hudson.

 

rob johnson... developed and traded him away and got a 1st round pick in return, which netted us fred taylor

 

96

 

very good draft.. Kevin Hardy, Tony Brackens, Beasley.

Cheever was a good player for a very short time, but injuries cut his career short.  was still a good pick.

reggie barlow also had a pretty decent career for us for a while.  nothing spectacular - but he contributed.  similar to rashad greene (mostly a return guy)

 

97

 

mike logan was solid - could've kept him - instead he played a number of years for the steelers

seth payne was rock solid

daimon jones was a nice redzone threat

daimon shelton was our lead blocker for a number of years, solid pick.

 

again - not pro-bowl guys but very solid picks that contributed to playoff teams.

 

98

 

tavian banks was amazing - but injuries cut his career short

john wade - solid player that enjoyed a long career in the NFL

 

99

 

probably his weakest draft - but jason craft was a solid player for us for a while.  poor draft overall

 

2000

 

brad meester

TJ Slaughter (one of my favorite players at that time)

Danny Clark

Rob Meier (one of the best value picks)

 

2001

 

Mo Williams

Marlon McCree

 

2002

 

Akin Ayodele

David Gerrard

 

 

I submit that coughlins rounds 2-7 will stack up very nicely compared to most GMs in the league, including Dave Caldwell.

Quote:Which is what I hope, but he's already blocked Marrone from hiring a coach. I just hope it's not a sign of things to come.

TC blocked Donnie Henderson who he had an issue with when they were on the same staff. Also Henderson was our DB coach in 2008 and he was very meh and known for being a yeller which can alienate players. Blocking him allowed us to get Perry Fewell for the role instead which is a much better hire IMO so alls well that ends well. I wouldn't be concerned with TC, at least not yet, he seems to know what hes doing thus far.