Quote:The Jaguars found a tight end on the waiver wire who is putting up similar numbers to Ertz.
So you'd rather have Harbor than Ertz? and Toby over Gio?
I still like Cyprien btw but feel we could have gone in another direction.
Quote:So you'd rather have Harbor than Ertz? and Toby over Gio?
I still like Cyprien btw but feel we could have gone in another direction.
I'd rather have Cyprien and Harbor than Ertz. Yes.
You could pretty much have gone in another direction on almost any pick in hindsight. Cyprien was not a bad pick.
Quote:Cyprien is right around the top 10 in SS's in the league right now. He'll only rise up that list within the next few years. That's good value for #33. On draft night, he was considered a late first or early 2nd prospect, which was also equal value for where we found him.
Highly debatable.
Quote:And Joeckel? Beadles?
He's been generally good?
Marks
Miller
Ball
Bortles
Clemons
Bryant
That's discounting Cyp, who is a very good player. So basically all our best players. Caldwell is literally the least of our problems. He is in fact the single greatest alleviator of our problems behind only Bortles. The actual reason we are struggling now to win is indeed that we don't have the talent, but that is thanks to the previous regime. Rome was not built in a day.
It's really not that hard, Jeremy.
Quote:Marks
Miller
Ball
Bortles
Clemons
Bryant
That's discounting Cyp, who is a very good player. So basically all our best players. Caldwell is literally the least of our problems. He is in fact the single greatest alleviator of our problems behind only Bortles. The actual reason we are struggling now to win is indeed that we don't have the talent, but that is thanks to the previous regime. Rome was not built in a day.
It's really not that hard, Jeremy.
Some people are incapable of looking at a situation and attempt to figure out what the problem could be. Just easier to say everything is wrong.
Quote:Highly debatable.
Well, if he's not close to the top 10, name 20 better strong safeties than Cyp.
Quote:Well, if he's not close to the top 10, name 20 better strong safeties than Cyp.
I'll name 15 instead, since 5 is still far from top 10.
Kam Chancellor
Eric Berry
Troy Polamalu
TJ Ward
Antoine Bethea
Reshad Jones
Tyvon Branch
Donte Whitner
Antrel Rolle
Morgan Burnett
Kenny Vaccaro
Roman Harper
Bernard Pollard
Aaron Williams
Mark Barron (albeit inconsistent)
All of these guys can either do what Cyprien does better, or is more flexible in coverage.
Cyprien is a run-of-the-mill strong safety right now.
Cyprien had a good game against the Chargers but some of the other games this year not so good.
Colts game: Cyp was blown up twice times by Colt RB's. Once for a touchdown. Not the definition of a thumper in my book.
Titans game: Cyprien had three whiffs on tackles in the first quarter alone yesterday. Cyprein bit way too much on the play action. Lastly, Cyprien misses a tackle yesterday and the ball carrier falls but is not touched. Cyprien looks on as the ball carrier gets up and gains another 8-10 yards. Mental mistakes all day.
At this point, Cyprein is an average SS at best.
Hopefully he will improve.
Quote:Cyprien had a good game against the Chargers but some of the other games this year not so good.
Colts game: Cyp was blown up twice times by Colt RB's. Once for a touchdown. Not the definition of a thumper in my book.
Titans game: Cyprien had three whiffs on tackles in the first quarter alone yesterday. Cyprein bit way too much on the play action. Lastly, Cyprien misses a tackle yesterday and the ball carrier falls but is not touched. Cyprien looks on as the ball carrier gets up and gains another 8-10 yards. Mental mistakes all day.
At this point, Cyprein is an average SS at best.
Hopefully he will improve.
The Cyp fan club won't like the above post.
Call me crazy, but I'm OK with young and average. This lends itself to the very distinct possibility of turning itself into seasoned and good with reps and dedication to his craft. No, the guy isn't a Pro Bowler by any means but conversely, some folks are trying to make t seem like dude is year 2 Reggie Nelson.
Quote:Right after the Cyprien pick? Justin Hunter, Zach Ertz, Darius Slay and Gio Bernard. Also Kiko Alonso and Leveon Bell.
Honestly, had we drafted any of these players instead of Cyp, we would likely still be 0-6 and had Cyp landed, for instance, in Philly, where he would be starting, he would probably be on this list in a thread about the player we picked.
BTW. I'm not trying to discredit your point, just offering a different prospective.
Quote:I'll name 15 instead, since 5 is still far from top 10.
Kam Chancellor
Eric Berry
Troy Polamalu
TJ Ward
Antoine Bethea
Reshad Jones
Tyvon Branch
Donte Whitner
Antrel Rolle
Morgan Burnett
Kenny Vaccaro
Roman Harper
Bernard Pollard
Aaron Williams
Mark Barron (albeit inconsistent)
All of these guys can either do what Cyprien does better, or is more flexible in coverage.
Cyprien is a run-of-the-mill strong safety right now.
I'd scratch 3 or 4 of those easily off the list. You seem to be prioritizing players who cover better than they stop the run. A few of those guys are natural free safeties.
Above Cyp from that list I'd put:
Chancellor
Berry
Ward
Bethea
Jones
Whitner
Vaccaro
Harper
Pollard
Rolle
Polamalu
All were 1st or 2nd round picks except Chancellor, Bethea, and Jones. Players like Polamalu, Rolle, Pollard, Harper, and Bethea will be falling off very shortly. There are only a handful of young strong safeties as good as him in the NFL.
Quote:Honestly, had we drafted any of these players instead of Cyp, we would likely still be 0-6 and had Cyp landed, for instance, in Philly, where he would be starting, he would probably be on this list in a thread about the player we picked.
BTW. I'm not trying to discredit your point, just offering a different prospective.
Totally agree. Most of the time is about the team around you. Gio has a great oline and crazy weapons around him.
Quote:I'd scratch 3 or 4 of those easily off the list. You seem to be prioritizing players who cover better than they stop the run. A few of those guys are natural free safeties.
Above Cyp from that list I'd put:
Chancellor
Berry
Ward
Bethea
Jones
Whitner
Vaccaro
Harper
Pollard
Rolle
Polamalu
All were 1st or 2nd round picks except Chancellor, Bethea, and Jones. Players like Polamalu, Rolle, Pollard, Harper, and Bethea will be falling off very shortly. There are only a handful of young strong safeties as good as him in the NFL.
Because a strong safety supports the run defense. His main job is still playing the pass, and Cyprien is below average at that.
Also, that's still 11 players
With all due respect I don't think you've seen Morgan Burnett play if you think Cyprien is playing better ball than he is and I can certainly make an argument for Tyvon Branch. Aaron Williams was apparently moved to free safety but I'd tie Cyprien with him and DJ Swearinger, at most.
He's really not as good as you think he is.
Cyprien is an average to slightly below average starting SS in this league.
He's not the biggest problem on this defense. He does need to get better to warrant the #33 overall selection.
There's nothing left to say or do but to let it play out and see how he progresses. He needs to get better at recognizing the play and diagnosing playaction. Simple as that. If he gets better at it, we may have a good SS for us. If he doesn't, we'll have an average starter for 3-4 years and he'll get replaced.
Quote:That's still 11 players
With all due respect I don't think you've seen Morgan Burnett play if you think Cyprien is playing better ball than he is and I can certainly make an argument for Tyvon Branch. Aaron Williams was apparently moved to free safety but I'd tie Cyprien with him and DJ Swearinger, at most.
He's really not as good as you think he is.
Burnett isn't nearly as good at stuffing the run as Cyprien.
I said he was right around the top 10. You put him at 16 and I put him at 12, which is close enough. And most would take him before those older veteran safeties on the list simply because he's ascending while they are descending talents.
I'm just saying that Cyprien is tracking well with other young safeties and is on track to be a top 10 strong safety... Which is far from not worth a 2nd round pick.
Quote:Burnett isn't nearly as good at stuffing the run as Cyprien.
I said he was right around the top 10. You put him at 16 and I put him at 12, which is close enough. And most would take him before those older veteran safeties on the list simply because he's ascending while they are descending talents.
I'm just saying that Cyprien is tracking well with other young safeties and is on track to be a top 10 strong safety... Which is far from not worth a 2nd round pick.
Burnett is a better safety overall than Cyprien. If I wanted support in the run and a liability in the pass I'd move Paul Posluszny to strong safety.
Considering there's only 32 starting strong safeties in the league, top 10 is slightly above average. If he could get there, great, but we're also assuming people drafted after him won't possibly surpass him and keep him at that 15-20 range I have him at.
Quote:They can be, but you can also find a player with none of it. Cyprien is still worth keeping and still worth starting, especially if you can find a good free safety that'll allow him to play up to that run support skill set
The Jaguars have a long ways until they fix that secondary and it's 100% Caldwell's fault for doing nothing virtually about it for two offseasons, and it'll probably still be bad next year until they give up on this silly Seattle defensive scheme that isn't being implemented properly and he picks up someone -- ANYONE -- that has Alan Ball's ceiling as their floor. /rant
Sad thing about it is he drafted damn near a whole secondary in the draft and brought in some help in free agency. Not gonna write them off yet because the last two games they've tightened up. McCray looks like a steal late in the draft.
Quote:Burnett is a better safety overall than Cyprien. If I wanted support in the run and a liability in the pass I'd move Paul Posluszny to strong safety.
Considering there's only 32 starting strong safeties in the league, top 10 is slightly above average. If he could get there, great, but we're also assuming people drafted after him won't possibly surpass him and keep him at that 15-20 range I have him at.
It depends on the scheme you run. Most strong safeties play the run a little more than they play the pass. Some play the run almost exclusively. If you are going to run a Tampa 2, I would prioritize a strong safety that has great coverage skills or move a natural free safety like Eric Berry there.
Burnett is a big reason why Green Bay can't stop the run to save their lives. He's average all around, but he's always late to the play. He's the Paul Posluszny of safeties. Always making a tackle a couple of yards too late.
Quote:The Cyp fan club won't like the above post.
You can say the same thing about the Arthur Brown and Johnthan Banks fan club