Quote:Everybody calm down. Let's give Marrone a chance instead of being all gloom and doom about him being named HC.
There are examples of coaches who turned into good head coaches despite serving under bad head coaches on teams with bad records.
Marrone was interim HC for the last 8 quarters of the Jag's season and the Jags actually looked like a real NFL team for 6 of those 8 quarters AND he beat the (BAD WORD REMOVED) out of the hated tacks who were actually playoff bound.
Also he did something in one of the 2 games he coached that Gus NEVER did once in his entire time here: Beat a team that ended the season with a winning record. the tacks ended the year 9-7.
There is plenty of reason to be optimistic here...
I second the " let's all take a step away from the top edge of the Matthews bridge rail" statement...
Chill folks
Quote:Predictably, there is a sizeable portion of the fan base that disagrees with the decision to hire Marrone. I saw a poll conducted by FCN that showed fans opposed Marrone being named head coach by a 70%-30% margin. Given the disastrous 15 wins since 2013, I can understand fans wanting a clean sweep from the Bradley era, and hiring Marrone flies directly in the face of that objective. Furthermore, since his presence on the staff did not avoid that result, many feel Marrone not only wasn't part of the solution, but part of the problem. Many feel Marrone is not the guy who will fix the QB position. Ultimately, the view is that the hiring of Marrone was an endorsement of the status quo by a content and complacent ownership.
However, I submit that the hiring of Marrone is not mere capitulation to mediocrity and not the path of least resistance to further failure. I maintain Marrone's inferior position on the coaching staff does not necessarily translate into him being an inferior caliber coach. I contend Marrone's familiarity with the players here, including Bortles, is a positive factor for this team, and overall, he will prove to be a good hire.
One of the biggest, tacit arguments is that since Marrone was on the coaching staff of a team that failed miserably, he is ill equipped to be a head coach for this same team with the goal of making them winners. There is historical evidence that oft unstated premise does not hold true. There have been plenty of good coaches that have worked under head coaches with lesser ability and languished on bad teams, who wound up coaching teams with a level of success that far outpaced their former bosses. The early 1980s saw Ray Perkins coach the New York Giants to a 23-34 record between 1979-1982. With a team that performed so lethargically under his tenure, you would think it was poorly coached from top to bottom. However, there were a couple of assistants under Perkins named Bill Parcells and Bill Belichick. Ray Rhodes coached the Philadelphia Eagles in the years before Andy Reid got there, between 1995-1998. His first two years, the Eagles finished a respectable 10-6. However, those last two years, the Eagles finished 6-9-1 and 3-13. His coaching staff included a guy named Jon Gruden, who wound up coaching the 2002 Bucs to a Super Bowl championship. In 2006, Brad Childress coached the Minnesota Vikings to a 6-10 record. His defensive coordinator was Mike Tomlin, who has coached the Steelers to a World championship and another Super Bowl appearance. The point is a good coach can be in a bad situation and still remain a good coach. I think that was the situation here with Marrone. In his two game stint as interim coach, the team performed better under him-even splitting the last two games-than it did in any two game stretch under Bradley. The players spoke openly about how different things were here under Marrone. It's entirely possible he can coach better performance out of these guys.
Another concern is that Marrone won't be able or willing to fix the QB position because he was on the coaching staff last year. I submit Marrone and Hackett represent the best chance to fix Bortles and maximize his ability. Though fans cringe at the idea of continuity from 15-49, some continuity is what Bortles needs. Bortles has had three (3) different offensive coordinators (Fisch, Olsen, Hackett) in his three seasons as a Jaguar. Had we brought in a guy entirely unfamiliar with him, he would have to learn a 4th system completely cold. With Marrone and Hackett having worked with Bortles, they can make the transition to the new offense easier for him. They already have an idea of his strengths and weaknesses, and they know the terminology of the offense Bortles has run these last two years. In the two games Marrone coached, the offense averaged 25 ppg. Bortles looked sharp and with potential. Allen Robinson returned to the offense, and it was productive minus Allen Hurns, Julius Thomas, and Ivory. When Marrone and Hackett introduce their playbooks to Bortles, they can easier explain and translate the differences to Bortles, and call plays tailored to his strengths. If you think they will be too loyal to Bortles, there is nothing about the hiring of Marrone that precludes bringing in a QB to compete with him now or in the future if Bortles should falter. It's not likely the Jaguars would draft a QB high this year anyway, whether a new coach came in or not, and the free agent class is underwhelming. A new coach other than Marrone may well have played with Bortles at QB this year anyway.
Will Marrone need a strong defensive coordinator? Sure. But his past shows a willingness to bring an established an successful guy to fill that role. In Buffalo, he brought along Jim Schwartz as defensive coordinator. There is nothing to indicate he would be averse to bringing in another solid guy to run the other side of the ball. Besides, any coach that comes in with a specialty on one side or another will need a solid coordinator on the other side. Had Smith been the guy, we all know he'd need a strong OC. Had Shanahan or McDaniels been the choice, they would all need good defensive coordinators.
At the end of the day, the Jaguars hired a guy who has experience on a Super Bowl winning coaching staff with the Saints, has produced a winning season for a franchise not used to them in recent years without anything resembling a franchise QB, and has gotten the best out of Bortles this year. There are signs he will implement the discipline this young team needs, and can draw upon TC's expertise in assembling a staff.
I think he deserves the patience from this fan base, though admittedly it is in short supply after the pas nine years.
Execellent post, as usual Bullseye, and I completly agree with it.
Quote:I hope you are right. But ....
https://twitter.com/AlbertBreer/status/8...1178575872
Something of a concern, but they aren't necessarily trapped into doing things exactly the same way it was done under Gus. I don't think they will go an entire year never blitzing on 3rd and short. Perhaps he doesn't keep the loyalty to Poz and they move Jack inside. Maybe from a personnel perspective, they run a more conventional scheme.
Also consider there were some good things about the defense this past year.
Quote:I thought he left the saints before their Super Bowl run?
I have two concerns with Marrone:
•Just average overall records in NFL(17-18) and College (23-25)
•worried about Gus' previous culture still lurking in our locker rooms. Worried it's not a sweeping enough change to change players mindset.
Gotta look at the spots he took over.
Syracuse was a terrible football program prior. He brought them multiple bowls and had a lot of success for that program. In Buffalo, he took over a poor team with defensive talent. He took a team with a terrible QB situation to 9-7.
Look at Buffalo's record for the decade before Marrone came. Look at Cuse's record the years before he showed up. It takes time to turn places around, and Cuse was on the up until he went to the NFL. Buffalo was on the up, but he left after his 2nd season.
But glad that T.C. is the VP. As he will bring back an old school style football and no nonsense work ethic!
Quote:Bravo. I almost did what you did, and went back to look at the track record of where certain head coaches who were former coordinators came from, and how the staff they served under before head coaching fared overall. And indeed my gut feeling was right; there have been coordinators from teams with poor overall records who went on to be good head coaches.
I mentioned Jim Caldwell in another thread but what you mentioned reminded me of something related involving him. If you look at Coach Caldwell's record as Wake Forest HC in his 8 seasons, which was 26-63, many, if not most would conclude that he's not fit to ever being an NFL HC. HOF GM Bill Polian was smart enough not to view the record by itself, when promoting Coach Caldwell to become the Colts HC in 2009 when Tony Dungy retired. In his first season as Colts HC, Caldwell took the team to the Super Bowl. Then led the Colts to the AFC South Title the following season. The season ending injury to Peyton Manning derailed the Colts 2011 season, which led to Jim Irsay cleaning house. But when combining Jim Caldwell's 3 seasons with the Colts and 3 with the Lions through this point in time, he's taken 4 teams ( 66.7 % ) to the playoffs.
Though Syracuse wasn't on Wake Forest's level in terms of difficulty to recruit, t's still a hard place to build a winning football program. All things considering, Doug Marrone's record with Syracuse isn't bad.
Being that Marrone is the only HC with the BIlls in the last 12 seasons to have a winning record, his coaching stay with them certainly has credibility on this end. That much more considering his willingness to go with Kyle Orton at QB when he realized that EJ Manuel wouldn't live up to his draft billing.
Quote:Question is Bullseye getting paid or something? That's a lot of words typed...lol
Ha!
Who would
pay for my takes?
I mean, I suppose under P.T Barnum's logic, I might have a buyer or two.
Marrone has a subpar college record because he coached freaking Rutgers and then had the pleasure of coaching the Bills. I think he will do fine.
Quote:Marrone has a subpar college record because he coached freaking Rutgers and then had the pleasure of coaching the Bills. I think he will do fine.
He coached Syracuse and took them to two bowl games. Improved the team drastically. They were terrible before he got there.
The problem is... Marrone seems to want to keep most of the old staff. Which means very little change. He seems to want to keep Hackett and the defensive staff. I guess we might get lucky and he bring in a good QB Coach to help Bortles out during the regular season. Just seems like very little change for a team that went 3-13. And as bad as Gus was, the coaching couldn't have been ALL on him. Yet we're likely to see little change in that regard. And yeah, change for the sake of change isn't necessarily the best thing--but we've had four years of losing. Keeping most of the same staff seems out of place for a team that hasn't been to the playoffs since before President Obama was elected--and he's since served two terms. If Marrone was a guy they had in mind to replace Gus--why not fire Gus earlier to give Marrone an extended tryout? Why wait until the last two games of the season, against divisional opponents? I mean surely if Gus were truly the only problem on the staff.... then why not fire him earlier? Is the organization really okay with Marrone going "Yeah, I think I'll just keep the staff we've got."
As for his stint in Buffalo--much can be attributed to Defensive Coordinator Jim Schwartz. Look at how he turned Philly's defense around. Buffalos defense got turned around--and that's why they had their first winning season in several years. Now one might credit Marrone with hiring Schwartz--but again it looks as if he'll be keeping Wash on.
You also have the fact that it's rare for an interim head coach to have success. The most successful ones were probably Marv Levy, Marty Schottenheimer (Never won a playoff game with the Chargers), Jason Garrett (has yet to win a playoff game, but that might change Sunday) Jeff Fisher, and Raymond Berry.
It's hard for me to be optimistic about this hiring. It feels more like a Romeo Crenell than it does a Jason Garrett or even a Jeff Fisher. I really hope I'm wrong--but I don't think Marrone is going to turn this team around.
Quote:The problem is... Marrone seems to want to keep most of the old staff. Which means very little change. He seems to want to keep Hackett and the defensive staff. I guess we might get lucky and he bring in a good QB Coach to help Bortles out during the regular season. Just seems like very little change for a team that went 3-13. And as bad as Gus was, the coaching couldn't have been ALL on him. Yet we're likely to see little change in that regard. And yeah, change for the sake of change isn't necessarily the best thing--but we've had four years of losing. Keeping most of the same staff seems out of place for a team that hasn't been to the playoffs since before President Obama was elected--and he's since served two terms. If Marrone was a guy they had in mind to replace Gus--why not fire Gus earlier to give Marrone an extended tryout? Why wait until the last two games of the season, against divisional opponents? I mean surely if Gus were truly the only problem on the staff.... then why not fire him earlier? Is the organization really okay with Marrone going "Yeah, I think I'll just keep the staff we've got."
As for his stint in Buffalo--much can be attributed to Defensive Coordinator Jim Schwartz. Look at how he turned Philly's defense around. Buffalos defense got turned around--and that's why they had their first winning season in several years. Now one might credit Marrone with hiring Schwartz--but again it looks as if he'll be keeping Wash on.
You also have the fact that it's rare for an interim head coach to have success. The most successful ones were probably Marv Levy, Marty Schottenheimer (Never won a playoff game with the Chargers), Jason Garrett (has yet to win a playoff game, but that might change Sunday) Jeff Fisher, and Raymond Berry.
It's hard for me to be optimistic about this hiring. It feels more like a Romeo Crenell than it does a Jason Garrett or even a Jeff Fisher. I really hope I'm wrong--but I don't think Marrone is going to turn this team around.
Most guys in position to even become an interim head coach, aren't the caliber of coach that Marrone is. If anyone has a good shot to buck the trend, it's Marrone.
Quote:The problem is... Marrone seems to want to keep most of the old staff. Which means very little change. He seems to want to keep Hackett and the defensive staff. I guess we might get lucky and he bring in a good QB Coach to help Bortles out during the regular season. Just seems like very little change for a team that went 3-13. And as bad as Gus was, the coaching couldn't have been ALL on him. Yet we're likely to see little change in that regard. And yeah, change for the sake of change isn't necessarily the best thing--but we've had four years of losing. Keeping most of the same staff seems out of place for a team that hasn't been to the playoffs since before President Obama was elected--and he's since served two terms. If Marrone was a guy they had in mind to replace Gus--why not fire Gus earlier to give Marrone an extended tryout? Why wait until the last two games of the season, against divisional opponents? I mean surely if Gus were truly the only problem on the staff.... then why not fire him earlier? Is the organization really okay with Marrone going "Yeah, I think I'll just keep the staff we've got."
As for his stint in Buffalo--much can be attributed to Defensive Coordinator Jim Schwartz. Look at how he turned Philly's defense around. Buffalos defense got turned around--and that's why they had their first winning season in several years. Now one might credit Marrone with hiring Schwartz--but again it looks as if he'll be keeping Wash on.
You also have the fact that it's rare for an interim head coach to have success. The most successful ones were probably Marv Levy, Marty Schottenheimer (Never won a playoff game with the Chargers), Jason Garrett (has yet to win a playoff game, but that might change Sunday) Jeff Fisher, and Raymond Berry.
It's hard for me to be optimistic about this hiring. It feels more like a Romeo Crenell than it does a Jason Garrett or even a Jeff Fisher. I really hope I'm wrong--but I don't think Marrone is going to turn this team around.
We have no choice but to wait and see...
I feel he will make enough substantial change to how we play and coach that we will win
All I know is I saw a different team and a different quarterback the last two games, and an interim head coach who handled the entire situation with class and professionalism.
I agree with RJ...but we can't keep blowing 17 point leads. That's not acceptable.
Quote:I thought he left the saints before their Super Bowl run?
I have two concerns with Marrone:
•Just average overall records in NFL(17-18) and College (23-25)
•worried about Gus' previous culture still lurking in our locker rooms. Worried it's not a sweeping enough change to change players mindset.
Going 9-7 with the Bills and Orton/Manuel is anything but average.
Quote:All I know is I saw a different team and a different quarterback the last two games, and an interim head coach who handled the entire situation with class and professionalism.
This.
He had 1 week to prepare and they came out like a completely different team. They looked how we thought they would look.
Marrone has the look and feel of a real HC. The most astounding thing about those last two games was the play of Bortles. That's a head scratcher for sure, but if he can get that out of Blake, and more, we'll be ok.
Quote:I agree with RJ...but we can't keep blowing 17 point leads. That's not acceptable.
It wasn't 100% perfect but I came away feeling it wasn't acceptable to Marrone either.
Quote:It wasn't 100% perfect but I came away feeling it wasn't acceptable to Marrone either.
But let's be honest, if he beats the Colts, does that really change anyones feelings towards the Marrone hire?
If he wins, do the people who don't like the hire suddenly love it?
If you do like the Marrone hire, do you like it even more?