His biggest fault was giving Gus a 4th year but I think that was Shad's decision. This team proved it can play at a high level with a real coach the last 2 weeks. Needs to go get the right guy to get the most out of these players.
Quote:Come on...lol.
You really think the record is better? Technically, no. Under Genes 4 years he received 22 games won, Dave has 14. Point 4 is a fact.
Bortles is better than Gabbert. But many are ready to move on, many believe he isnt the answer because the answer remains to be seen.
The O line is absolutely worse off than what it was 4 years ago. It is probably the worst unit on the team. I dont see any player other than Linder thats a sure fire lock to make the roster next year.
Ill give Dave the defense, it is better
Quote:I quoted Khan somewhere else from last year. He CLEARLY wanted Gus to stay on.
Id love to see that quote. But again, Khan had zero to do with anything football related for pretty much 4 years. I dont think anyone really wanted Bradley gone within the organization. Everyone in that building is STUNNED at the results this season. Nobody actually thought this was going to happen.
There's going to be a lot of butt hurt come tomorrow.
Quote:Id love to see that quote. But again, Khan had zero to do with anything football related for pretty much 4 years. I dont think anyone really wanted Bradley gone within the organization. Everyone in that building is STUNNED at the results this season. Nobody actually thought this was going to happen.
How do we know that Khan had nothing to do with ops? Personally I wanted Bradley to succeed but came to terms with reality before last season. It just took Shad a bit longer to make the decision.
The decision to retain and extend Gus was Shad Khan's. Period.
QB play IS better. It hasn't been good enough, especially this season, but let's not forget how bad Gabbert was.
OLine play has been worse run blocking, better pass blocking this season, mostly imo because we haven't answered RT. LG wasn't good this year, but we did experience multiple injuries there.
We all know Gus was a major part of the problem, so record was terrible.
No GM hits on every pick, nor every 1st rounder. Overall, there is more talent, and I mean HIGH level talent, Ramsey, Lee, ARob, Smith, Jackson, etc, than we have had in years.
I think there is enough evidence to give Dave a bit more time. Obviously, continued failure rests on him, but I'm not ready to fire him. Gus was an ALL TIME worst HC chosen by committee, Dave, Mark, Tony and Shad.
He's got one more chance. I believe in him, but he's on a short leash.
Quote:You really think the record is better? Technically, no. Under Genes 4 years he received 22 games won, Dave has 14. Point 4 is a fact.
Bortles is better than Gabbert. But many are ready to move on, many believe he isnt the answer because the answer remains to be seen.
The O line is absolutely worse off than what it was 4 years ago. It is probably the worst unit on the team. I dont see any player other than Linder thats a sure fire lock to make the roster next year.
Ill give Dave the defense, it is better
Bortles is much better than Gabbert. Last year he showed signs of being a franchise QB before this year where his mechanics went to crap along with a [BLEEP] coaching staff in his ear.
Bortles may very well end up not being our guy, but our QB position I feel much better about than when Gene was here.
In 2012, the Jaguars offensive line gave up 50 sacks. The Jaguars gave up 32-33 sacks this year.
Linder is a beast. Beachum had ups and downs, but ultimately been decent for coming off an ACL. You can see clear as day he isn't 100% out there. I've seen multiple times where he was on the ground and couldn't get up without Blake and another OL picking him up basically. Cann had a very good rookie year than had a rough go at it this year. Not like he was TERRIBLE though. He was okay. Not going to blast a 2nd year player that showed what he did in 2015. Let's wait and see on him.
LG we've had several people have to start and Parnell was utter [BLEEP] for the first 12-13 weeks. Last few weeks hes been pretty decent though. Think we need new guys at these spots, but I do feel like LT/C/RG are all pretty well in tact going into next year.
The defense is on a completely different level than when Gene was here. It was a joke of a unit since Mike Smith left tbh. Now it's littered with talent at every group.
Quote:How do we know that Khan had nothing to do with ops? Personally I wanted Bradley to succeed but came to terms with reality before last season. It just took Shad a bit longer to make the decision.
That quote is just your typical PR tout the company line BS. That was after he got the contract extension. Gus was Daves guy there is zero way around that. I liked both Dave and Gus. I was a huge Dave fan, I dont want to see him fired, but, yes, as it stands right now, this absolutely needs to be discussed because I dont think they team is any better than it was under Gene Smith.
Note that Im a Dave fan and dont want to see him fired and probably know he wont be fired.
What makes people say linder is a beast. I dont see it. He doesn't throw dt's around like a rag doll. He's above avg. Vince manuwai was better than him
This isn't to say that just because there's more talent than an utter failure of a GM was here is impressive, more so just responding to the post saying this team isn't in much of a better spot than where it was then. It most definitely is. We're decent QB play away from being a .500 team...doesn't even have to be great. We had the 2nd most losses of 8 points or less in the NFL. Gus was very, very bad.
Quote:The decision to retain and extend Gus was Shad Khan's. Period.
QB play IS better. It hasn't been good enough, especially this season, but let's not forget how bad Gabbert was.
OLine play has been worse run blocking, better pass blocking this season, mostly imo because we haven't answered RT. LG wasn't good this year, but we did experience multiple injuries there.
We all know Gus was a major part of the problem, so record was terrible.
No GM hits on every pick, nor every 1st rounder. Overall, there is more talent, and I mean HIGH level talent, Ramsey, Lee, ARob, Smith, Jackson, etc, than we have had in years.
I think there is enough evidence to give Dave a bit more time. Obviously, continued failure rests on him, but I'm not ready to fire him. Gus was an ALL TIME worst HC chosen by committee, Dave, Mark, Tony and Shad.
He's got one more chance. I believe in him, but he's on a short leash.
Wheres your fact that is was Shad that retained Gus Bradley? You realize coaches and QB's are tied to the GM's hip. I dont see that at all. He got an extension because NOONE wanted to 1. Fire Gus and 2. Thought we would be 3-13 in 2016. The extension was a security blanked. It protected Dave incase they did have a successful season. Firing Gus was apparent to everyone but Dave Caldwell.....until we got blown out on Thursday Night, then I think 99 percent of the town was ready to have Gus out the door.
Quote:That quote is just your typical PR tout the company line [BAD WORD REMOVED]. That was after he got the contract extension. Gus was Daves guy there is zero way around that. I liked both Dave and Gus. I was a huge Dave fan, I dont want to see him fired, but, yes, as it stands right now, this absolutely needs to be discussed because I dont think they team is any better than it was under Gene Smith.
Note that Im a Dave fan and dont want to see him fired and probably know he wont be fired.
It was the owner of the club. If you think that doesn't set strategic direction then you're off base.
Quote:Wheres your fact that is was Shad that retained Gus Bradley? You realize coaches and QB's are tied to the GM's hip. I dont see that at all. He got an extension because NOONE wanted to 1. Fire Gus and 2. Thought we would be 3-13 in 2016. The extension was a security blanked. It protected Dave incase they did have a successful season. Firing Gus was apparent to everyone but Dave Caldwell.....until we got blown out on Thursday Night, then I think 99 percent of the town was ready to have Gus out the door.
The extension was purely for free agency. As we've seen it didn't mean a thing in reality.
And you still just refuse to accept that the only guy who could ok the firing of Bradley is Khan. and he didn't do that until 2 weeks ago.
Quote:You need to look at 2012 when we fired Gene Smith to 2016 with Dave Caldwell. And you have to ask yourself these questions.
1. Is the QB play better? The answer is still to be seen
2. Is The O Line better? No, Id say that unit got worse under Caldwell
3. Is the Defense better? Probably, but by how much? We still have problems getting to the QB, though Yannick is showing great potential
4. Is our record better? No, not its not and its gotten worse
I think Dave Caldwells future absolutely should be in jeopardy given that almost nothing has concretely gotten better under him.
1. Bortles is better then Gabbert.
2. Only have up 34 sacks this year and pass protection was better.
3. It was in the top 10 so yeah it's better.
4. I'll give you this but it's more on Gus. Players looked like they were on the verge of being good only to drop off the next season. We saw it with the offense this year.
It's been made pretty clear that Dave was not thr only one with say in hiring Gus and he had his hands tied by Khan on firing him. In fact there was talk that after everything this year Khan still wanted to keep Gus.
Quote:That quote is just your typical PR tout the company line [BAD WORD REMOVED]. That was after he got the contract extension. Gus was Daves guy there is zero way around that. I liked both Dave and Gus. I was a huge Dave fan, I dont want to see him fired, but, yes, as it stands right now, this absolutely needs to be discussed because I dont think they team is any better than it was under Gene Smith.
Note that Im a Dave fan and dont want to see him fired and probably know he wont be fired.
He really wasn't, though. He was the group (Tony, Shad, Mark, Dave) decision. Dave didn't exactly give a glowing support of him in the PC after Gus was let go.
Gus seemed like a great hire at the time. Proved otherwise, but Khan's refusal to fire him shows this was a decision above Dave.
Quote:Bortles is much better than Gabbert. Last year he showed signs of being a franchise QB before this year where his mechanics went to crap along with a [BAD WORD REMOVED] coaching staff in his ear.
Bortles may very well end up not being our guy, but our QB position I feel much better about than when Gene was here.
In 2012, the Jaguars offensive line gave up 50 sacks. The Jaguars gave up 32-33 sacks this year.
Linder is a beast. Beachum had ups and downs, but ultimately been decent for coming off an ACL. You can see clear as day he isn't 100% out there. I've seen multiple times where he was on the ground and couldn't get up without Blake and another OL picking him up basically. Cann had a very good rookie year than had a rough go at it this year. Not like he was TERRIBLE though. He was okay. Not going to blast a 2nd year player that showed what he did in 2015. Let's wait and see on him.
LG we've had several people have to start and Parnell was utter [BAD WORD REMOVED] for the first 12-13 weeks. Last few weeks hes been pretty decent though. Think we need new guys at these spots, but I do feel like LT/C/RG are all pretty well in tact going into next year.
The defense is on a completely different level than when Gene was here. It was a joke of a unit since Mike Smith left tbh. Now it's littered with talent at every group.
I wont argue that Bortles has shown more potential than Gabbert.
I dont see the improvement on the O line. Yea, Linders good, but hes also injury prone. Beachum was okay, both guards cant run block and Parnell was a terrible FA acquisition. I think the unit has regressed, I dont look at just sack numbers.
You are probably right on the defense, it is a better unit overall, but I dont they are spectacular.
Quote:I wont argue that Bortles has shown more potential than Gabbert.
I dont see the improvement on the O line. Yea, Linders good, but hes also injury prone. Beachum was okay, both guards cant run block and Parnell was a terrible FA acquisition. I think the unit has regressed, I dont look at just sack numbers.
You are probably right on the defense, it is a better unit overall, but I dont they are spectacular.
Parnell was an upgrade and there weren't many other RTs available at the time. Had he done nothing the criticism would be that he did nothing, so sometimes you just take what you can get.
Quote:I wont argue that Bortles has shown more potential than Gabbert.
I dont see the improvement on the O line. Yea, Linders good, but hes also injury prone. Beachum was okay, both guards cant run block and Parnell was a terrible FA acquisition. I think the unit has regressed, I dont look at just sack numbers.
You are probably right on the defense, it is a better unit overall, but I dont they are spectacular.
They aren't spectacular because we had a staff that forced a scheme down everyones throat. The fact we have an OTTO spot that makes us play Dan Skuta over Myles Jack makes that clear as day. We took an FS that was a ballhawk and put him 15 yards of the LOS and he had 1, ONE, interception this year. Ramsey and Gip just spoke up about it.
No, it isn't just about the sack numbers, but it seems like your just trying to make it fit your narrative that the OL isn't any better than it was in 2012 when it probably was. There wasn't much to be hopeful about from that bunch of players. Pretty sure we had guys like Eben Britton, Guy Whimper, Austin Pasztor, etc. on the OL. Meester was ok but most were ready to get moving on, and Monroe was a decent LT. How the hell is that better than what we have now?
Quote:It was the owner of the club. If you think that doesn't set strategic direction then you're off base.
Im having a hard time seeing Dave Caldwell last season giving Gus the ax. I dont see it. Where is your proof Dave was not a Gus guy? Thats my point. I have no doubt Khan signed off and endorsed Bradley, but I dont see Dave being blameless in this.