Quote:Im having a hard time seeing Dave Caldwell last season giving Gus the ax. I dont see it. Where is your proof Dave was not a Gus guy? Thats my point. I have no doubt Khan signed off and endorsed Bradley, but I dont see Dave being blameless in this.
Dave isn't blameless, but he isn't the one that automatically makes the decision. It's pretty obvious Shad is a hands on owner when it comes to this stuff, and his son is obviously in his ear and likely has a strong voice in things.
No one is saying Caldwell didn't like Gus, I had this argument before. I just don't think he was "his" top guy. Doesn't mean he was against hiring him.
Quote:Im having a hard time seeing Dave Caldwell last season giving Gus the ax. I dont see it. Where is your proof Dave was not a Gus guy? Thats my point. I have no doubt Khan signed off and endorsed Bradley, but I dont see Dave being blameless in this.
I don't either, but it's not a fireable offense if the owner is clearly in agreement with the direction. That's my point to the "Fire 'em all!" crowd.
Quote:They aren't spectacular because we had a staff that forced a scheme down everyones throat. The fact we have an OTTO spot that makes us play Dan Skuta over Myles Jack makes that clear as day. We took an FS that was a ballhawk and put him 15 yards of the LOS and he had 1, ONE, interception this year. Ramsey and Gip just spoke up about it.
No, it isn't just about the sack numbers, but it seems like your just trying to make it fit your narrative that the OL isn't any better than it was in 2012 when it probably was. There wasn't much to be hopeful about from that bunch of players. Pretty sure we had guys like Eben Britton, Guy Whimper, Austin Pasztor, etc. on the OL. Meester was ok but most were ready to get moving on, and Monroe was a decent LT. How the hell is that better than what we have now?
I dont think its my narrative. Im pointing out that the offensive line may be the worst unit on the team and many changes were made from Paztor and Guy Whimper and Eugene Monroe. I dont think we did anything to improve that unit except draft and spend money on players who didnt make any impact, other than Linder.
Quote:I dont think its my narrative. Im pointing out that the offensive line may be the worst unit on the team and many changes were made from Paztor and Guy Whimper and Eugene Monroe. I dont think we did anything to improve that unit except draft and spend money on players who didnt make any impact, other than Linder.
The only think I would've done differently is give Alex Mack whatever he wanted to come here.
Edit: Just checking the OTs when we signed Parnell. He was rated the 6th best available. The top 2 (Bulaga, Free) resigned with their own teams, #3 (Roos) retired, #4 (Dunlap) stayed home, and #5 (Barksdale) signed a big deal with the Chargers. That, along with drafting Joke, Linder, Cann, Bowanko shows that they've made moves to improve the unit, they just haven't been hugely successful. Same with RBs, they've made moves that Bradley just didn't seem to capitalize on.
Quote:I dont think its my narrative. Im pointing out that the offensive line may be the worst unit on the team and many changes were made from Paztor and Guy Whimper and Eugene Monroe. I dont think we did anything to improve that unit except draft and spend money on players who didnt make any impact, other than Linder.
Just because the unit may be the worst on the team doesn't mean it's not better than what we had in 2012. As far as pass protection goes, we were very solid this year. Our problem has been run blocking (that took off these last two weeks with Parnell's improved play).
Quote:The only think I would've done differently is give Alex Mack whatever he wanted to come here.
Agreed. Even though he was coming off a very bad year last year (literally all Browns fans wanted him gone, that says something) but we needed veterans on this OL and we never got anyone legit at LG. You put Mack in at C (even with his possible issues) to pair with Linder at RG and Cann at LG...that's a talented OL. Just getting one solid guy would do wonders for this OL whether that be LG or RT for next year.
Quote:Dave isn't blameless, but he isn't the one that automatically makes the decision. It's pretty obvious Shad is a hands on owner when it comes to this stuff, and his son is obviously in his ear and likely has a strong voice in things.
No one is saying Caldwell didn't like Gus, I had this argument before. I just don't think he was "his" top guy. Doesn't mean he was against hiring him.
I disagree again. Khan is about as hands off when it comes to football operations as you can be. Hes said that since he purchased the team. This guy hasn't been active in anything decision wise for 4 years. This is where I disagree with you. Khan gave Dave the reigns and he molded the team from the head coach to the player acquisitions the way he wanted it to be. Khan was too patient with this football team. I think Khan started getting involved when Gus got the extension last season, but again backed off until we gave up a 17 point lead to the Texans, thats when I think he stepped in and had Bradley fired.
I want factual evidence that Gus Bradley wasn't Daves selection. I believe it was his guy and it was his guy from day 1. When it comes to the football operations, Dave Caldwell has been the guy for the past 4 years. Personnel decisions? Dave Caldwell. Drafting? Dave Caldwell. Free Agents? Dave Caldwell.
Dave Caldwell is absolutely responsible for the mess we are in. If I was Khan, he would go. He will likely get another chance and I hope he proves me wrong because I was a big fan of his and I did believe he was the right person to get the team back on track.
Quote:I disagree again. Khan is about as hands off when it comes to football operations as you can be. Hes said that since he purchased the team. This guy hasn't been active in anything decision wise for 4 years. This is where I disagree with you. Khan gave Dave the reigns and he molded the team from the head coach to the player acquisitions the way he wanted it to be. Khan was too patient with this football team. I think Khan started getting involved when Gus got the extension last season, but again backed off until we gave up a 17 point lead to the Texans, thats when I think he stepped in and had Bradley fired.
I want factual evidence that Gus Bradley wasn't Daves selection. I believe it was his guy and it was his guy from day 1. When it comes to the football operations, Dave Caldwell has been the guy for the past 4 years. Personnel decisions? Dave Caldwell. Drafting? Dave Caldwell. Free Agents? Dave Caldwell.
Dave Caldwell is absolutely responsible for the mess we are in. If I was Khan, he would go. He will likely get another chance and I hope he proves me wrong because I was a big fan of his and I did believe he was the right person to get the team back on track.
With Football operations as far as the roster goes? Sure. But we literally just brought in Coughlin and word has it everyone in the brain trust but Caldwell was there. That sounds like a hands off guy? No, he's a successful business man. He isn't going to sit aside and watch the struggles this team has went through and do whatever Dave says. He just isn't, and all the reports about the Coughlin ordeal shows that.
I want factual evident that it was all Dave Caldwell. I mean in an interview he just said he went with a guy that wasn't someone he knew much about or was comfortable with. You think the Khan's and co. had nothing at all to do with it? Like come on.
Quote:I disagree again.
You clearly didn't watch Caldwell's press conference after the firing.
One didn't need to read between the lines to get the impression that Caldwell was influenced on the hiring decision by Khan -- and that the eventual firing decision was not his alone either.
Quote:You clearly didn't watch Caldwell's press conference after the firing.
One didn't need to read between the lines to get the impression that Caldwell was influenced on the hiring decision by Khan -- and that the eventual firing decision was not his alone either.
I watched it. Whats your point? He said nothing but your typical coach speak. Do you really believe they were firing him if they had won that game as Caldwell mentioned?
People forget that Dave Caldwell talked about a partnership from a GM to the coach as to be vital. They have to mesh, think the same and work well together. Shad Khan didnt present Gus Bradley to Dave Caldwell and say, make it work. This hire was Dave Caldwell and Dave Caldwell alone.
Dave should be under scrutiny and is under scrutiny. 3-13 in year 4. Comes with the job.
Dave absolutely hired Gus Bradley, and it took a little too long for him to be fired. Heres an article of when Gus was hired and quotes from Caldwell.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/88526...le-jaguars
Yes he should be, but he wont.
Quote:I watched it. Whats your point? He said nothing but your typical coach speak. Do you really believe they were firing him if they had won that game as Caldwell mentioned?
People forget that Dave Caldwell talked about a partnership from a GM to the coach as to be vital. They have to mesh, think the same and work well together. Shad Khan didnt present Gus Bradley to Dave Caldwell and say, make it work. This hire was Dave Caldwell and Dave Caldwell alone.
Dave should be under scrutiny and is under scrutiny. 3-13 in year 4. Comes with the job.
Dave absolutely hired Gus Bradley, and it took a little too long for him to be fired. Heres an article of when Gus was hired and quotes from Caldwell.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/88526...le-jaguars
Yeah. I'm not going to spell this all out for you. It's not worth the effort. You've made up your mind and intend to ignore anything that diminishes your position.
Caldwell is lucky to still have his job to be sure, but there is much more going on in the dynamics of these hirings and firings than you are willing to accept.
That presser made it pretty clear, and if all you got from it was "coach speak" you either didn't watch it, or I've overestimated your comprehension skill.
Quote:I watched it. Whats your point? He said nothing but your typical coach speak. Do you really believe they were firing him if they had won that game as Caldwell mentioned?
People forget that Dave Caldwell talked about a partnership from a GM to the coach as to be vital. They have to mesh, think the same and work well together. Shad Khan didnt present Gus Bradley to Dave Caldwell and say, make it work. This hire was Dave Caldwell and Dave Caldwell alone.
Dave should be under scrutiny and is under scrutiny. 3-13 in year 4. Comes with the job.
Dave absolutely hired Gus Bradley, and it took a little too long for him to be fired. Heres an article of when Gus was hired and quotes from Caldwell.
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/8852625/gus-bradley-coach-jacksonville-jaguars'>http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/8852625/gus-bradley-coach-jacksonville-jaguars</a>
So his recent press conference on the firing of Bradley is "coach speak", but quote in the link you posted isn't?
Quote:Yeah. I'm not going to spell this all out for you. It's not worth the effort. You've made up your mind and intend to ignore anything that diminishes your position.
Caldwell is lucky to still have his job to be sure, but there is much more going on in the dynamics of these hirings and firings than you are willing to accept.
That presser made it pretty clear, and if all you got from it was "coach speak" you either didn't watch it, or I've overestimated your comprehension skill.
Okay, Ill play, sense your getting a little pissy. Tell me in detailed fact from Dave Caldwells pressure which made it seem that 1. Gus Bradley wasn't his hire from day 1 and 2. Shad Khan was responsible for Gus being hired in the first place, and also that Dave Caldwell wanted Gus gone last year, and Khan didnt.
Quote:So his recent press conference on the firing of Bradley is "coach speak", but quote in the link you posted isn't?
Its all coach speak. But again, do you really believe Shad Khan presented Caldwell Bradley and said, make it work? Thats what we are arguing here.
Quote:Its all coach speak. But again, do you really believe Shad Khan presented Caldwell Bradley and said, make it work? Thats what we are arguing here.
No, this isn't the argument at all. I don't think anyone is saying Caldwell has no blame or he didn't like Gus at all. People are saying that he may not have had him as his top candidate, but one of the serious candidates they had.
Not to mention Caldwell also spewed a little more hate on Gus when he said he had to cold call people to come interview because the total re-build we had to do. Not exactly going to get your top guys when that's the case either.
Quote:No, this isn't the argument at all. I don't think anyone is saying Caldwell has no blame or he didn't like Gus at all. People are saying that he may not have had him as his top candidate, but one of the serious candidates they had.
Not to mention Caldwell also spewed a little more hate on Gus when he said he had to cold call people to come interview because the total re-build we had to do. Not exactly going to get your top guys when that's the case either.
His cold calling argument was, nobody wanted to come to a rebuild. Sure, Ill admit, Gus probably wasn't his top candidate in that circumstance. I mean, I'm sure Dave would of loved Bill Bellichick over Gus, but obviously, that isnt a possibility. The cold calling comment was about him having to actually go out and seeing peoples interest. He was a first time GM taking over a team in a terrible situation. Im sure he got calls about the job, but yea, when your in a complete rebuild like they were, it was a bit more difficult.
Quote:Okay, Ill play, sense your getting a little pissy. Tell me in detailed fact from Dave Caldwells pressure which made it seem that 1. Gus Bradley wasn't his hire from day 1 and 2. Shad Khan was responsible for Gus being hired in the first place, and also that Dave Caldwell wanted Gus gone last year, and Khan didnt.
No, I'm not pissy. I'm being condescending because you are clinging to a point and ignoring evidence to the contrary.
I'm not going to waste my time providing you with a transcript of a press conference. It was discussed and quoted in a prior thread on this forum and dozens heard the same thing I heard and interpreted it the same way. You either didn't hear that particular exchange of Q&A, or you missed the information it implied, or you are ignoring it because it takes a small portion of onus from Caldwell regarding Bradley.
Quote:Its all coach speak. But again, do you really believe Shad Khan presented Caldwell Bradley and said, make it work? Thats what we are arguing here.
I think that given the circumstances surrounding the team and roster at the time, that proven, available HC's that wanted to come here was a pretty short list. Being that Shad's boy is highly invested in analytics and Gus Bradley was hitting high marks in that area of study, it's not unreasonable to think that Dave may have been influenced somewhat into making the hire. All of this stuff happens behind closed doors, so there's really no way to know who wanted what for any certainty. All I know is that the job seems to be a more attractive one than it was in 2012, so there's that.
Quote:No, I'm not pissy. I'm being condescending because you are clinging to a point and ignoring evidence to the contrary.
I'm not going to waste my time providing you with a transcript of a press conference. It was discussed and quoted in a prior thread on this forum and dozens heard the same thing I heard and interpreted it the same way. You either didn't hear that particular exchange of Q&A, or you missed the information if implied, or you are ignoring it because it takes a small portion of onus from Caldwell regarding Bradley.
In other words, you dont have factual evidence other than how you interpreted it with a bunch of fans on a message board. Thats not how a business like an NFL franchise is run and your speculation isnt how Gus Bradleys hiring played out.