Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Dave is probably out there at the office pretending to read and be interested in Tony Khan's analytics just to keep from getting fired

I voted no.  I believe this team has a lot more talent than their record indicates.   So, the fault is with the coaching, not the GM. 

Quote:He's got the backing of the one person whose opinion actually matters in this instance.

Exactly.

 

This is the case because you can tell that Caldwell is drafting good players.

 

Most of the high picks, and several of the mid rounders, have shown signs of brilliance.  Bortles, ARob, Lee, Linder, Telvin Smith, Cann, Ramsey, Jack,and Ngakoue have all produced to some degree that fans watching them could see why these players were chosen.  Now the team hasn't put it all together yet, and for that I blame coaching, but most of these guys have looked good at one point or another.

 

This is unlike what we saw with Gene SMith picks, where most looked average at best.  To me, Monroe was a guy.  Alualu has just taken up space on the roster.  There was the Anger pick.  Blackmon showed signs of being a dominant player, but he couldn't stay sober enough to actually pull it off.

If Caldwell was going, he'd have gone with Gus.

Quote:Exactly.


This is the case because you can tell that Caldwell is drafting good players.


Most of the high picks, and several of the mid rounders, have shown signs of brilliance. Bortles, ARob, Lee, Linder, Telvin Smith, Cann, Ramsey, Jack,and Ngakoue have all produced to some degree that fans watching them could see why these players were chosen. Now the team hasn't put it all together yet, and for that I blame coaching, but most of these guys have looked good at one point or another.


This is unlike what we saw with Gene SMith picks, where most looked average at best. To me, Monroe was a guy. Alualu has just taken up space on the roster. There was the Anger pick. Blackmon showed signs of being a dominant player, but he couldn't stay sober enough to actually pull it off.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I think we definitely have seen disjointed high levels of play out of the guys Dave has taken which heavily points to coaching and scheme problems more than talent, but I can recall a lot of guys Smith took being thought highly of really early on. Derek Cox, Knighton, and Britton particularly stick out in my mind.


I feel pretty confident about Dave's guys, but we have been wrong before.

Quote:I'm not disagreeing with you, I think we definitely have seen disjointed high levels of play out of the guys Dave has taken which heavily points to coaching and scheme problems more than talent, but I can recall a lot of guys Smith took being thought highly of really early on. Derek Cox, Knighton, and Britton particularly stick out in my mind.


I feel pretty confident about Dave's guys, but we have been wrong before.

Knighton was the one guy out of that group who looked like he could be a dominant player.  Cox was decent, and Britton was decent for one year then completely fell off the face of the earth.

 

Yes, we (the team and the fans) have been wrong about players before.  But the prevailing thought among outside observers is that this is a talented roster.

Quote:Exactly.

 

This is the case because you can tell that Caldwell is drafting good players.

 

Most of the high picks, and several of the mid rounders, have shown signs of brilliance.  Bortles, ARob, Lee, Linder, Telvin Smith, Cann, Ramsey, Jack,and Ngakoue have all produced to some degree that fans watching them could see why these players were chosen.  Now the team hasn't put it all together yet, and for that I blame coaching, but most of these guys have looked good at one point or another.

 

This is unlike what we saw with Gene SMith picks, where most looked average at best.  To me, Monroe was a guy.  Alualu has just taken up space on the roster.  There was the Anger pick.  Blackmon showed signs of being a dominant player, but he couldn't stay sober enough to actually pull it off.

I would necessarily say his draft picks have been overwhelmingly good. Id say his only home run has been Ramsey. Linder is good, Yannick is showing promise, Bortles showed promise but fell of significantly and Daves had many misses as well. It remains to be seen how great of a drafter Dave Caldwell is. 

Quote:I would necessarily say his draft picks have been overwhelmingly good. Id say his only home run has been Ramsey. Linder is good, Yannick is showing promise, Bortles showed promise but fell of significantly and Daves had many misses as well. It remains to be seen how great of a drafter Dave Caldwell is. 

Yannick Ngakoue produced 9.5 sacks.  That's great for a rookie, and better for a guy drafted in the 3rd round.

 

Most of Dave's misses were from 2013, which is universally viewed as a bad bad draft class.

Quote:Yannick Ngakoue produced 9.5 sacks.  That's great for a rookie, and better for a guy drafted in the 3rd round.

 

Most of Dave's misses were from 2013, which is universally viewed as a bad bad draft class.

 

I just excited to see if these guys will be better under a different coach. So many have underestimated the coaching impact because of the "Jimmy and Joes" talk, and that did no favors to the Blakes and Fowlers having to work with an amateur.

Quote:I dont think its my narrative. Im pointing out that the offensive line may be the worst unit on the team and many changes were made from Paztor and Guy Whimper and Eugene Monroe. I dont think we did anything to improve that unit except draft and spend money on players who didnt make any impact, other than Linder. 

 

This is absurd.


 

In 2012 (Dave's last year) the Jags had:


 

RT Bradfield/Whimper ---> Huge advantage 2016. As disappointing as Parnell has been this year, he was still way better than this duo. And Parnell was better last year, which points to coaching, not talent.


 

RG Nwaneri ---> Even. Just a guy. Cann is similar. Cann in 2015 was better than any Nwaneri season.


 

C Meester ---> Advantage 2016. A solid veteran on the downside of his career. Most here were calling for him to be replaced even before this season. Linder is much better.


 

LG Brewster/Others ---> Huge advantage 2016. A revolving door both years, but the worst of the 2016 Jags LTs was far better than the best of the 2012 group.


 

LT Monroe ---> Slight advantage 2012. A case could be made that Monroe in his best season here was better than Beachum, but maybe not; it's close. Beachum should be better next year in the second year back from his injury.

Quote:This is absurd.


 

In 2012 (Dave's last year) the Jags had:


 

RT Bradfield/Whimper ---> Huge advantage 2016. As disappointing as Parnell has been this year, he was still way better than this duo. And Parnell was better last year, which points to coaching, not talent.


 

RG Nwaneri ---> Even. Just a guy. Cann is similar. Cann in 2015 was better than any Nwaneri season.


 

C Meester ---> Advantage 2016. A solid veteran on the downside of his career. Most here were calling for him to be replaced even before this season. Linder is much better.


 

LG Brewster/Others ---> Huge advantage 2016. A revolving door both years, but the worst of the 2016 Jags LTs was far better than the best of the 2012 group.


 

LT Monroe ---> Slight advantage 2012. A case could be made that Monroe in his best season here was better than Beachum, but maybe not; it's close. Beachum should be better next year in the second year back from his injury.

Absolutely right.

Quote:Yannick Ngakoue produced 9.5 sacks.  That's great for a rookie, and better for a guy drafted in the 3rd round.

 

Most of Dave's misses were from 2013, which is universally viewed as a bad bad draft class.

Yes, I agree Yannick is an excellent prospect. But honestly, can you say the pass rush was stellar this season. Yannicks 9 sacks dont paint the whole story of that picture. 

Quote:This is absurd.


 

In 2012 (Dave's last year) the Jags had:


 

RT Bradfield/Whimper ---> Huge advantage 2016. As disappointing as Parnell has been this year, he was still way better than this duo. And Parnell was better last year, which points to coaching, not talent.


 

RG Nwaneri ---> Even. Just a guy. Cann is similar. Cann in 2015 was better than any Nwaneri season.


 

C Meester ---> Advantage 2016. A solid veteran on the downside of his career. Most here were calling for him to be replaced even before this season. Linder is much better.


 

LG Brewster/Others ---> Huge advantage 2016. A revolving door both years, but the worst of the 2016 Jags LTs was far better than the best of the 2012 group.


 

LT Monroe ---> Slight advantage 2012. A case could be made that Monroe in his best season here was better than Beachum, but maybe not; it's close. Beachum should be better next year in the second year back from his injury.

You pretty much made made my point. Looks like a punch of pushes and a few advantages. Both units not good at all. 

I think blaming Caldwell for Bradley's ineptness is not fair. We don't know the true talent of many of our players because they were hampered by kid gloves coaching, but we do have a lot of talent on this roster. And why Caldwell didn't fire Bradley we don't know, but a GM can't fire a head coach without the owner's approval IIRC so there is that. To lay the blame solely at Caldwell's feet is shortsighted. Has he had a few duds? Yes, all GM's do, but not enough at this point to have his head on a spike.

 

I would be interested in seeing what this team could accomplish with a head coach and position coaches who actually know what they're doing. 

Quote:I think blaming Caldwell for Bradley's ineptness is not fair. We don't know the true talent of many of our players because they were hampered by kid gloves coaching, but we do have a lot of talent on this roster. And why Caldwell didn't fire Bradley we don't know, but a GM can't fire a head coach without the owner's approval IIRC so there is that. To lay the blame solely at Caldwell's feet is shortsighted. Has he had a few duds? Yes, all GM's do, but not enough at this point to have his head on a spike.

 

I would be interested in seeing what this team could accomplish with a head coach and position coaches who actually know what they're doing. 

 

Shortsightedness?

 

On my Jaguars Message Board?

Quote:I think blaming Caldwell for Bradley's ineptness is not fair. We don't know the true talent of many of our players because they were hampered by kid gloves coaching, but we do have a lot of talent on this roster. And why Caldwell didn't fire Bradley we don't know, but a GM can't fire a head coach without the owner's approval IIRC so there is that. To lay the blame solely at Caldwell's feet is shortsighted. Has he had a few duds? Yes, all GM's do, but not enough at this point to have his head on a spike.

 

I would be interested in seeing what this team could accomplish with a head coach and position coaches who actually know what they're doing. 

We had this discussion yesterday. Caldwell hired Bradley, thats his guy. 

Quote:We had this discussion yesterday. Caldwell hired Bradley, thats his guy. 

 

No, you lost that discussion yesterday, but don't stop believing!

Quote:We had this discussion yesterday. Caldwell hired Bradley, thats his guy. 

I get that, but when [BLEEP] hit the fan Caldwell had his hands tied with firing Bradley if Khan said no. If Caldwell did nothing to have Bradley fired then he deserves the product we've seen on the field. 

Quote:No, you lost that discussion yesterday, but don't stop believing!

id say it was an agree to disagree ending (:

Quote:I get that, but when [BAD WORD REMOVED] hit the fan Caldwell had his hands tied with firing Bradley if Khan said no. If Caldwell did nothing to have Bradley fired then he deserves the product we've seen on the field. 

I think Khan stepped in and fired Bradley.