Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:The percentage of people flying the confederate flag, or displaying it in some manner has to be almost immeasurable.  You'll see them occasionally, but not very often.

I rarely see it at all except Callahan and Hilliard I'd say a decent percentage of people in those areas fly it. I used to live up there and it was almost ridiculous how many you saw.

Quote:There are exercises going on all around this country where you've got military doing drills in urban areas.  There are contingencies that have been developed for dealing with uprisings because of political instability and unrest.  There's a lot of stuff happening in this country that barely gets discussed because the media has been actively burying it. 

 

If you talk to someone in law enforcement, many cities including our own are having federal money jammed down their throats to buy armored equipment and military style gear that is completely unnecessary for local law enforcement. 

Hope your sources are Oath Keepers...

 

The Confederate Battle flag isn't racist. Sure, some ignorant people fly it for that reason. When I see it, I feel Southern Pride. Same as the Bonnie Blue. I'm actually alternating a Gadsden flag and a Bonnie Blue currently at my house. I'd love to hang a battle flag out front but, I think some of my neighbors may get the wrong idea.

 

The Civil War wasn't all about Slavery. Sure, it was A HUGE ISSUE but, it was more about the ever over reaching federal government sticking it's nose in places it didn't belong. Was slavery wrong? Sure. Was the industrial revolution that the north enjoyed so much built on the backs of slaves? You know it was...

 

I'm a real proponent of the 10th amendment. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

 

If it's not in the Constitution, it's not a law. It should be left for the autonomous states to decide how to handle it. You don't like how New Jersey is doing something? Move to Connecticut. Our freedoms are under a constant assault from power hungry people who should be servants of the people...instead get fat off the corporate teet.

Quote:I'm a real proponent of the 10th amendment. "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

 

Liberals believe, as we've seen in this forum, that the text you quote is simply a place holder for unresolved issues where the federal government has yet to exert its rightful position and authority. They do not believe in state's rights, nor that the 10th nor the Constitution was ever intended as a check on government power. They believe government is the be all and end all of existence and without it's benevolent care we're all hopeless and helpless in the face of our betters.

Quote:...

 

The Confederate Battle flag isn't racist. Sure, some ignorant people fly it for that reason. When I see it, I feel Southern Pride. Same as the Bonnie Blue. I'm actually alternating a Gadsden flag and a Bonnie Blue currently at my house. I'd love to hang a battle flag out front but, I think some of my neighbors may get the wrong idea.

 

 

When you see the Confederate battle flag, you feel southern pride. 

 

Just out of curiosity, why does it make you feel southern pride?   What are you proud of in regards to the south? 

Quote:Liberals believe, as we've seen in this forum, that the text you quote is simply a place holder for unresolved issues where the federal government has yet to exert its rightful position and authority. They do not believe in state's rights, nor that the 10th nor the Constitution was ever intended as a check on government power. They believe government is the be all and end all of existence and without it's benevolent care we're all hopeless and helpless in the face of our betters.

Very succinctly put.

 

Quote:When you see the Confederate battle flag, you feel southern pride. 

 

Just out of curiosity, why does it make you feel southern pride?   What are you proud of in regards to the south? 

The fact that MY forebearers had the huevos to tell the federal government NO MORE. Stuck together, and damn near succeeded. 

 

Slavery would have come to an end either way, it was a matter of time. The North sure didn't mind purchasing the textiles from the South that were produced on the backs of slaves. 

Quote:Very succinctly put.

 

The fact that MY forebearers had the huevos to tell the federal government NO MORE. Stuck together, and damn near succeeded. 

 

Slavery would have come to an end either way, it was a matter of time. The North sure didn't mind purchasing the textiles from the South that were produced on the backs of slaves. 

 

It was a matter of time. Centuries of kidnapping, torture, murder, forced labor, rape and displacement should have just waited for natural market forces to sort out.

It's still happening. Should we go to war over it?

Quote:Very succinctly put.

 

The fact that MY forebearers had the huevos to tell the federal government NO MORE. Stuck together, and damn near succeeded. 

 

Slavery would have come to an end either way, it was a matter of time. The North sure didn't mind purchasing the textiles from the South that were produced on the backs of slaves. 

 

I am also born and raised in the South, and I feel very little of the southern pride that you feel, especially in regards to the civil war and certainly not in regards to the confederate battle flag.   I am very glad the north won the civil war.  And anyone who says the war was not about slavery doesn't understand history at all.   For example, if you read the Articles of Secession that each state published when they seceded, they all say they are seceding to defend slavery.  

 

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/secession/

 

And if you read the statements of the Southern leadership at the time, they all say they are fighting to defend slavery. 

 

“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.
”

– Vice President of the Confederacy, Alexander Hamilton Stephens. http://www.nellaware.com/blog/alexander-stephens.html

 

If you study the history of the 1850s, the country was consumed by the issue of slavery.  Any mention of states' rights was in relation to the rights of states to have slaves. 

 

And if it wasn't about slavery, why did Lincoln persist in trying to dissuade the south from seceding by telling them he had no intention of interfering with slavery?  Why would be even bring it up?  It was because the South thought Lincoln was an abolitionist. 

 

I could go on and on, but in summary, to deny that the civil war was all about slavery is to deny an overwhelming mountain of historical evidence, just to make yourself feel better.  

If you read any of my posts on it, I agree that the main issue was Slavery but, the entire reason a war happened was that there are two ways out of Unconstitutional laws (which at the time, there was no constitutional law regarding slavery). Nullification, and if that doesn't work, secession. That's why, in my opinion it was about States rights.

 

Think about all the unconstitutional things that are going on now in our society. It needs to stop, or it will spell the end of the Republic.

Quote:If you read any of my posts on it, I agree that the main issue was Slavery but, the entire reason a war happened was that there are two ways out of Unconstitutional laws (which at the time, there was no constitutional law regarding slavery). Nullification, and if that doesn't work, secession. That's why, in my opinion it was about States rights.

 

Think about all the unconstitutional things that are going on now in our society. It needs to stop, or it will spell the end of the Republic.

 

You obviously have a different point of view from me, but please believe me, I would like to hear what you have to say.  I am genuinely interested because I hear the same sentiments from other people and I am mystified by them. 

 

So, when you say, "Think about all the unconstitutional things that are going on now in our society. It needs to stop, or it will spell the end of the Republic."  What are you referring to?  

Well, where do we start. 

 

How about the department of everything department we have. Agriculture, Education, etc, none of it was established by the constitution to be part of our government. I believe in a bottom up government model. My Wife and I paid almost $30k in Federal taxes last year. Why are the taxes so high? To pay for all that bloat and waste. The more and more gov is created the more and more the people will be abused. 

 

The United States as it stands today would be horrific in the eyes of the founding fathers. They would be shooting by now.

 

And Dear Leader has had multiple instances where he could have been impeached but, the other side is in on it too. They are all on the take.

 

They are going to drive our economy into the dirt, over tax all of us that work to pay for those that won't and it's not going to be able to sustain itself. As it stands right now, there is no way our real national debt will ever be paid. We're going to end up taking it in the backside from China who instead of payments will want other compensation.

 

The FBI, TSA, Homeland security, blah blah blah just a whole buncha bloat.

 

Sorry if I'm all over the place, it's the end of the work day and I'm trying to get outta here

 

Quote: 

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

Quote:You obviously have a different point of view from me, but please believe me, I would like to hear what you have to say.  I am genuinely interested because I hear the same sentiments from other people and I am mystified by them. 

 

So, when you say, "Think about all the unconstitutional things that are going on now in our society. It needs to stop, or it will spell the end of the Republic."  What are you referring to?  

 

Empire's always crumble from within. Often when I hear or speak of those sentiments that's what is being referred to. A Nation that has an unsustainable welfare class, open borders, hell bent on policing the world, and implementing police state tactics at home is a ticking time bomb.

Quote:Empire's always crumble from within. Often when I hear or speak of those sentiments that's what is being referred to. A Nation that has an unsustainable welfare class, open borders, hell bent on policing the world, and implementing police state tactics at home is a ticking time bomb.

 

I agree that there are a lot of dangerous and destructive things this country does.    The federal government debt, and unfunded wars overseas, to name a couple of them.  Bush probably spent about 4 trillion dollars in overseas military adventures when all the costs are added up.   Plus, the way we have given up our freedom in the name of safety.   And our congress, both parties, and campaign finance system is deeply corrupt. 

 

But I don't buy the apocalyptic talk I hear from some people.   Maybe I'm just an optimist.   I have studied history.  In fact, I have a history degree from Indiana University.   We have been MUCH worse off many times in the past, and we have turned things around.  

Quote:I agree that there are a lot of dangerous and destructive things this country does. The federal government debt, and unfunded wars overseas, to name a couple of them. Bush probably spent about 4 trillion dollars in overseas military adventures when all the costs are added up. Plus, the way we have given up our freedom in the name of safety. And our congress, both parties, and campaign finance system is deeply corrupt.


But I don't buy the apocalyptic talk I hear from some people. Maybe I'm just an optimist. I have studied history. In fact, I have a history degree from Indiana University. We have been MUCH worse off many times in the past, and we have turned things around.

Don't forget student loan debt and the poor job market

Quote:The "I'm not a raicst, but..." part really sums it up.

 

It is racism, it's about oppression and a celebration of the conservative ideals that allowed for it.

You realize that it was the Democrats that fought tooth and nail for slavery, and it was Conservatives that eventually abolished it, right?

 

Edit: After reading several of your following posts, I won't bother wasting one second of my time on the likes of you. You are so locked into the oppression/oppressed mindset and nothing will ever free you.

 

Instead, I will just feel sorry for you.

Quote:You realize that it was the Democrats that fought tooth and nail for slavery, and it was Conservatives that eventually abolished it, right?

 

Edit: After reading several of your following posts, I won't bother wasting one second of my time on the likes of you. You are so locked into the oppression/oppressed mindset and nothing will ever free you.

 

Instead, I will just feel sorry for you.

 

No, it was not "conservatives" that abolished it, it was Republicans who abolished it.   At that time, the Republicans were the liberals and the democrats were the conservatives.  

Quote:I agree that there are a lot of dangerous and destructive things this country does.    The federal government debt, and unfunded wars overseas, to name a couple of them.  Bush probably spent about 4 trillion dollars in overseas military adventures when all the costs are added up.   Plus, the way we have given up our freedom in the name of safety.   And our congress, both parties, and campaign finance system is deeply corrupt. 

 

But I don't buy the apocalyptic talk I hear from some people.   Maybe I'm just an optimist.   I have studied history.  In fact, I have a history degree from Indiana University.   We have been MUCH worse off many times in the past, and we have turned things around.  

 

Only with massive wars, it took World War II to pull our economy out of the depression. A war on that scale the debt would be my last concern. 

 

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones" - Albert Einstein. 

Quote:I agree that there are a lot of dangerous and destructive things this country does.    The federal government debt, and unfunded wars overseas, to name a couple of them.  Bush probably spent about 4 trillion dollars in overseas military adventures when all the costs are added up.   Plus, the way we have given up our freedom in the name of safety.   And our congress, both parties, and campaign finance system is deeply corrupt. 

 

But I don't buy the apocalyptic talk I hear from some people.   Maybe I'm just an optimist.   I have studied history.  In fact, I have a history degree from Indiana University.   We have been MUCH worse off many times in the past, and we have turned things around.  

I wish I was as optimistic as you. All great empires have fallen once they grow and grow to become unsustainable. 

 

Sound familiar?

Other factors that caused the Roman Empire to collapse can be broadly categorized into the internal and the external factors. The internal factors included the selfish interests of Roman emperors, socio-economic problems, and political corruption prevalent in the area. The external factors referred to disease and plagues that desolated the entire population, the violent attacks from the Germans, Huns, and other barbaric tribes, the weakened and untrained Roman military, and a greatly reduced territory under the control of the Empire.

 

Just change the Germans and huns to "undocumented aliens" and hate groups. Or ISIS however you wanna put it.

Quote:No, it was not "conservatives" that abolished it, it was Republicans who abolished it.   At that time, the Republicans were the liberals and the democrats were the conservatives.  

The preceding message has been approved by the progressive liberal party of revisionist history. :thumbsup:

 

lol.......

Quote:The preceding message has been approved by the progressive liberal party of revisionist history. :thumbsup:

 

lol.......

 

The South justified their secession from the union under the banner of states' rights, which has always been a cornerstone of the conservative philosophy.  The North fought against states rights and to preserve the union, or primacy of the federal government,  The South seceded because  of the election of the first Republican president, Lincoln, whom they feared was too radical on the issue of slavery.   So in essence, the slave owners were the conservatives (states rights, preserve the system,, etc).  

 

So to say "conservatives" ended slavery is so far off the mark as to be laughable.   It's Orwellian. 

 

Next you'll tell me conservatives supported civil rights, women's rights, and environmental protection.  Or that they ended the Vietnam War.