Quote:The government's rights in any area are only limited by the desires of those in government.'
The constitution gives practically limitless ability for the government to do just about anything in the interests of the General Welfare.
Intentionally trying to raise children to be ignorant and superstitious should probably be categorized as child abuse.
WOW, the constitution specifically LIMITS the reach of government and empowers the individual. You have it backwards my friend, the constitution is not a document giving power to government it is taking power from government.
Quote:WOW, the constitution specifically LIMITS the reach of government and empowers the individual. You have it backwards my friend, the constitution is not a document giving power to government it is taking power from government.
The powers of congress are enumerated, and case law has made it pretty clear that the enumeration of the interest of the General Welfare is essentially an endless fountain of possibility.
The constitution is a framework, and that framework is clear and interpreted as allowing the legislation whatever amount of power it sees fit to allocate to itself.
Where in the constitution does it say that the government CANNOT establish a framework of what is acceptable in childrearing?
Quote:Well being it take a male and female to create a life, I'd say abortions do directly affect males.
Talk about your all time short sighted statements.
Quote:The powers of congress are enumerated, and case law has made it pretty clear that the enumeration of the interest of the General Welfare is essentially an endless fountain of possibility.
The constitution is a framework, and that framework is clear and interpreted as allowing the legislation whatever amount of power it sees fit to allocate to itself.
Where in the constitution does it say that the government CANNOT establish a framework of what is acceptable in childrearing?
It doesn't have to say government CANNOT do anything, if government is not given that power in the constitution it doesn't have that power.
Quote:Talk about your all time short sighted statements.
How is it short sighted, the accusation is women are only affected directly via abortion. I argue males are also directly affected via abortion because both parties are equally involved in the act of creating the "fetus". I know if a woman I had sex with aborted a fetus I had a hand in creating I'd be directly affected in an extremely negative way, yet under current law I have no say in the situation.
Quote:It doesn't have to say government CANNOT do anything, if government is not given that power in the constitution it doesn't have that power.
The constitution limits specific powers like laws of freedom of speech or freedom of religion. If a certain power isn't mentioned in the constitution, it's not limited.
Quote:The constitution limits specific powers like laws of freedom of speech or freedom of religion. If a certain power isn't mentioned in the constitution, it's not limited.
wrong if it's not mentioned it doesn't exist.
Quote:How is it short sighted, the accusation is women are only affected directly via abortion. I argue males are also directly affected via abortion because both parties are equally involved in the act of creating the "fetus". I know if a woman I had sex with aborted a fetus I had a hand in creating I'd be directly affected in an extremely negative way, yet under current law I have no say in the situation.
Can a male walk away from a pregnant woman and abandon her without consequence? Yes, most definitely. Can a female do the same when she's pregnant? No.
And this debate isn't about your right as a father, it's about laws concerning abortion. Specifically if the people making the laws were the same as the people who create the demand for abortions then their would be much better law concerning abortions.
Quote:It doesn't have to say government CANNOT do anything, if government is not given that power in the constitution it doesn't have that power.
I just explained to you that the government in fact DOES have that power.
The right-wing notion that the constitution is exclusively about limiting government to what they specifically want it to be is wrong. The constitution allows practically limitless power as long as it is correctly legislated.
Quote:I just explained to you that the government in fact DOES have that power.
The right-wing notion that the constitution is exclusively about limiting government to what they specifically want it to be is wrong. The constitution allows practically limitless power as long as it is correctly legislated.
That last little qualifier is a big difference, until that power is legislated and up held by the courts as constitutional it doesn't exist. It's not limitless power by definition.
Quote:wrong if it's not mentioned it doesn't exist.
How can you limit something which doesn't exist? Case history in the US Supreme Court is pretty clear on the notion that the constitution only limits the powers mentioned in the constitution. By your way the FAA is an illegal organization because it's powers and authority aren't mentioned in the constitution.
Quote:Can a male walk away from a pregnant woman and abandon her without consequence? Yes, most definitely. Can a female do the same when she's pregnant? No.
And this debate isn't about your right as a father, it's about laws concerning abortion. Specifically if the people making the laws were the same as the people who create the demand for abortions then their would be much better law concerning abortions.
Don't we have child support laws? So no the male can't walk away without consequences.
Again this is all a hypothetical debate since men can not get pregnant but I refuse to accept that attitudes about abortion would change if the sex roles changed. That would be the same as saying if women ruled the world abortions would be available at wal-mart, since they're the directly affected party.
Quote:That last little qualifier is a big difference, until that power is legislated and up held by the courts as constitutional it doesn't exist. It's not limitless power by definition.
Don't try to get persnickety about semantics with me.
The government's power is practically limitless, and even the limits that are specific in the constitution, they're not ironclad and without the possibility of complete revocation, all it takes is the desire of the legislature and people to make even that happen.
Quote:Don't try to get persnickety about semantics with me.
The government's power is practically limitless, and even the limits that are specific in the constitution, they're not ironclad and without the possibility of complete revocation, all it takes is the desire of the legislature and people to make even that happen.
your line of thought is dangerous...................
Quote:To who?
The Jim Crow south?
To anyone, your view that the constitution doesn't limit governments power and that governments power is limitless is the dream of tyrants.
Quote:To whom.
Excuse me, I'm being sloppy.
That, who.
Which, whom.
Quote:To anyone, your view that the constitution doesn't limit governments power and that governments power is limitless is the dream of tyrants.
That there are still people who keep falling for the bizarre right-wing platform that claims to be about shrinking government, but really is about shrinking the parts of government that get in the way of their desires, is the real problem we have currently.
If you want success for the nation you have to accept that success means changing away from the things you want to believe are correct and accepting the reality that big government is needed in a big way for the problems we currently face.
Quote:That there are still people who keep falling for the bizarre right-wing platform that claims to be about shrinking government, but really is about shrinking the parts of government that get in the way of their desires, is the real problem we have currently.
If you want success for the nation you have to accept that success means changing away from the things you want to believe are correct and accepting the reality that big government is needed in a big way for the problems we currently face.
Big government was originally a response to big corporations. The reason certain people want big government gone is because it's the last entity still capable of resisting big corporations effectively.