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Actually the teen pregnancy rate has dropped since 1990.  Additionally the abortion rates for teens also declined.  I believe it reached the low of 1973 back in 1999.  So it's dropped since then.  

Quote:Can you cite any respectable study that shows that?  It seemed to work during my childhood.

Anything I posted you would claim is biased because you have a preconceived notion based on accidental evidence. There are myriad of studies easily available including a study done by the federal government that shows there is no correlation to "waiting" with abstinence education. 

I was taught abstinence all my life. The first time I saw a girl naked, it didn't work. I'll teach all 3 of my boys abstinence, but I suspect the first time they see a girl naked it won't work. 

 

However I will say it was my parents teachings that pushed me to man up 21 when my girlfriend got pregnant. We got married struggled for nearly a decade and had 3 more kids. I just don't know to many people that actually remained abstinent but I applaud those that do. 

Quote:I was taught abstinence all my life. The first time I saw a girl naked, it didn't work. I'll teach all 3 of my boys abstinence, but I suspect the first time they see a girl naked it won't work. 

 

However I will say it was my parents teachings that pushed me to man up 21 when my girlfriend got pregnant. We got married struggled for nearly a decade and had 3 more kids. I just don't know to many people that actually remained abstinent but I applaud those that do. 

I was also raised this way. My father was the only one that broached the topic of "being safe". Because of that when the abstinence failed, I was prepared. 

Quote:I was also raised this way. My father was the only one that broached the topic of "being safe". Because of that when the abstinence failed, I was prepared. 

 

lol no my parents "discovered" I wasn't abstinent when I called to tell them I was getting married in 3 weeks and my girlfriend was pregnant.

 

I tried telling my Mother it was an immaculate conception but that didn't help matters.........

Quote:lol no my parents "discovered" I wasn't abstinent when I called to tell them I was getting married in 3 weeks and my girlfriend was pregnant.

 

I tried telling my Mother it was an immaculate conception but that didn't help matters.........

I got a nice laugh out of that. 

Quote:I was taught abstinence all my life. The first time I saw a girl naked, it didn't work. I'll teach all 3 of my boys abstinence, but I suspect the first time they see a girl naked it won't work. 

 

However I will say it was my parents teachings that pushed me to man up 21 when my girlfriend got pregnant. We got married struggled for nearly a decade and had 3 more kids. I just don't know to many people that actually remained abstinent but I applaud those that do. 

 

I was taught abstinence all my life too.  Then I got my first girlfriend... and that went out the window pretty quickly. It's admirable, but difficult.  My wife and I have 5 daughters (triplets and twins) and I fear the day they turn 16.  But I want them to know to be safe, and that I'll love them no matter what happens.  (I also want their boyfriends to know that I have an uncle who has more than enough guns for me to borrow one if I ever need to, and I've watched enough CSI to know how to get away with murder >_>)


That gives me an idea for a bumper sticker actually...


"As long as father's have daughters, it will be legal to own a shotgun."

If you want to get rid of abortions, you can't just outlaw them, because history has shown that abortions will occur whether legal or not.   So to get rid of abortions, you really need to reduce unwanted pregnancies.  But you can't just ask people to abstain from having sex, because history has shown that people have sex whether they intend to have a child or not, and they have abortions whether married or not.   So the only answer is to use birth control to reduce unwanted pregnancies. 

 

But when you suggest that we take up some kind of coordinated effort to reduce unwanted pregnancies by using birth control, the same people who are up in arms about abortion don't seem to want to do that either.  They just want to ask people to stop having sex unless they intend to have a child.  Which is ridiculously naive. 

 

From this I draw the conclusion that both sides of the abortion debate are wrong.  One side wants lots of free sex and abortions, and the other side wants to eliminate abortions by eliminating sex.   Good luck to all of you.   Enjoy your moral outrage.  

 

Have you ever wondered if the people doing battle over this issue really want to solve it?  After all, if the issue is ever solved, then both sides lose a wonderful fundraising tool.  

Quote:I think the only way to resolve this issue is to eliminate unwanted pregnancies as much as possible.  Give all women free birth control.  Good God, in this day and age, surely any woman can avoid becoming pregnant if she wants to, and IF she is also given the means to avoid it. 

 

This is my thought on a solution as well, but there's billion$ of rea$on$ why the pro-abortion side won't hear of it.

Nobody is saying that abstinence is THE answer, but it's a good start.

 

It all comes down to personal responsibility.  I too was taught abstinence my whole life, and yes, as a young teenager I did "explore" and do otherwise.  The point is, I had some knowledge and responsibility.  I can remember being a young kid and going into the store to buy condoms.  I also remember my then girlfriend and I saving up the money for her to get birth control.

 

The point is, we didn't wait on the government to provide for us.  We both felt that if we were "mature" enough to have sex then we were "mature" enough to be responsible about it.  ytraM is right about one thing.  In this day and age any "woman" can avoid becoming pregnant if she wants to.  The same can be said regarding any "man" avoiding becoming a "father" if he really wants to.

Quote:I was taught abstinence all my life too.  Then I got my first girlfriend... and that went out the window pretty quickly. It's admirable, but difficult.  My wife and I have 5 daughters (triplets and twins) and I fear the day they turn 16.  But I want them to know to be safe, and that I'll love them no matter what happens.  (I also want their boyfriends to know that I have an uncle who has more than enough guns for me to borrow one if I ever need to, and I've watched enough CSI to know how to get away with murder >_>)

That gives me an idea for a bumper sticker actually...


"As long as father's have daughters, it will be legal to own a shotgun."

 

I have one daughter ( I lose sleep over it now) and three sons. I'm not sure how I'll approach the subject.With my Sons I'm going to encourage them to wait for marriage, I'll be open about how me not waiting made things very difficult (having kids so young) and try not to create an easy access for them to be active at a young age. 

 

My Daughter well I'm that uncle your kids has with plenty of guns. I think for girls its important for them to see their Father treat their Mother with respect and love, I read a book a long time ago can't remember what its called but the psychologist talked about how Daughters wage their self worth based upon how they see their Fathers treat their Mothers. It was a sobering thought and REALLY made me evaluate how I treated my Wife. It's my hope that by setting as good of an example as I can that my Daughter will have enough self esteem and respect for herself to not given in to push teenage boys. 

 

I've always got the shotgun as backup........

Quote:Nobody is saying that abstinence is THE answer, but it's a good start.

 

It all comes down to personal responsibility.  I too was taught abstinence my whole life, and yes, as a young teenager I did "explore" and do otherwise.  The point is, I had some knowledge and responsibility.  I can remember being a young kid and going into the store to buy condoms.  I also remember my then girlfriend and I saving up the money for her to get birth control.

 

The point is, we didn't wait on the government to provide for us.  We both felt that if we were "mature" enough to have sex then we were "mature" enough to be responsible about it.  ytraM is right about one thing.  In this day and age any "woman" can avoid becoming pregnant if she wants to.  The same can be said regarding any "man" avoiding becoming a "father" if he really wants to.

 

Yes, but what I meant was, by using birth control.   Asking people to give up sex is asking waaaay too much.  

Quote:I have one daughter ( I lose sleep over it now) and three sons. I'm not sure how I'll approach the subject.With my Sons I'm going to encourage them to wait for marriage, I'll be open about how me not waiting made things very difficult (having kids so young) and try not to create an easy access for them to be active at a young age. 

 

My Daughter well I'm that uncle your kids has with plenty of guns. I think for girls its important for them to see their Father treat their Mother with respect and love, I read a book a long time ago can't remember what its called but the psychologist talked about how Daughters wage their self worth based upon how they see their Fathers treat their Mothers. It was a sobering thought and REALLY made me evaluate how I treated my Wife. It's my hope that by setting as good of an example as I can that my Daughter will have enough self esteem and respect for herself to not given in to push teenage boys. 

 

I've always got the shotgun as backup........

 

I have 3 daughters and 1 son. You can't imagine the depth and darkness of my nightmares. My oldest is moving out this summer and she's has a job lined up in St Thomas, USVI. I've got a strong willed young woman who doesn't take crap from anyone, but she's also in the process of finding herself as an adult. I fear the next two years will be the hardest, but I'm also confident that we've equipped her to deal with most of life's major concerns. She also knows that she can call us and we'll be on or have her on the next flight, day or night. Teach them well and give them support; those are the best things a parent can do.

Quote:I have 3 daughters and 1 son. You can't imagine the depth and darkness of my nightmares. My oldest is moving out this summer and she's has a job lined up in St Thomas, USVI. I've got a strong willed young woman who doesn't take crap from anyone, but she's also in the process of finding herself as an adult. I fear the next two years will be the hardest, but I'm also confident that we've equipped her to deal with most of life's major concerns. She also knows that she can call us and we'll be on or have her on the next flight, day or night. Teach them well and give them support; those are the best things a parent can do.

Teaching them well is the only option we have as parents. 

Quote:Yes, but what I meant was, by using birth control.   Asking people to give up sex is asking waaaay too much.  

 

 I don't know that it's wrong of us to expect citizens to use sex in an appropriate way and at an appropriate time so that it doesn't create a strain on our society. Kids having kids is bad for all of us. Poor people having many children is bad for all of us. Broken homes without fathers are bad for all of us. Sentience means that we use intellectual control over our biological impulses. It's hard, but it's part of what sets us apart from the rest of the animals. Duty and responsibility have a place in informing our sexual behaviors as much as any other part of our lives, and it's imperative that we get those concepts back into the practice.

Quote: I don't know that it's wrong of us to expect citizens to use sex in an appropriate way and at an appropriate time so that it doesn't create a strain on our society. Kids having kids is bad for all of us. Poor people having many children is bad for all of us. Broken homes without fathers are bad for all of us. Sentience means that we use intellectual control over our biological impulses. It's hard, but it's part of what sets us apart from the rest of the animals. Duty and responsibility have a place in informing our sexual behaviors as much as any other part of our lives, and it's imperative that we get those concepts back into the practice.

 

Those concepts have never been in practice in the history of mankind.   For the last 7 million years, when human beings reach an age when they could have sex, they have had as much sex as they could.   If you think otherwise, you are naive.  

 

I'm flabbergasted that people who think abortion is murder would not advocate the widespread use of birth control.   Asking people to stop having sex is absurd.  

Quote:Those concepts have never been in practice in the history of mankind.   For the last 7 million years, when human beings reach an age when they could have sex, they have had as much sex as they could.   If you think otherwise, you are naive.  

 

I'm flabbergasted that people who think abortion is murder would not advocate the widespread use of birth control.   Asking people to stop having sex is absurd.  

 

I'm not asking them to stop nor am I not advocating for BC. I am advocating that we teach our young that sex is something that has the power to change your life forever, and the it's best if you learn to put it in it's proper place in your life. That means using it safely and at a time a place in your life where you are prepared to accept the consequences of a pregnancy. That's not naivete, it's preparation and I believe it would help with the problems.

Quote:Those concepts have never been in practice in the history of mankind.   For the last 7 million years, when human beings reach an age when they could have sex, they have had as much sex as they could.   If you think otherwise, you are naive.  

 

I'm flabbergasted that people who think abortion is murder would not advocate the widespread use of birth control.   Asking people to stop having sex is absurd.  

 

Nobody is saying to ask people to stop having sex.  The message is more about personal responsibility and self control.

 

Don't want to be a mother/father at a young age?  Then take it upon yourself to do the right thing.  That means either abstaining or providing protection for yourself.  If a person (man or woman) can afford a cell phone and Starbucks, then they certainly can afford to take personal responsibility to protect themselves against an unwanted or unexpected pregnancy.

Quote:Those concepts have never been in practice in the history of mankind.   For the last 7 million years, when human beings reach an age when they could have sex, they have had as much sex as they could.   If you think otherwise, you are naive.  

 

I'm flabbergasted that people who think abortion is murder would not advocate the widespread use of birth control.   Asking people to stop having sex is absurd.  

 

The health center already gives out free condoms 

Quote:Teaching them well is the only option we have as parents.

Right. That's why abstinence only education is a joke. You are literally providing no sex education.