Quote:Nothing in the article suggests we're moving away from Seattle's D. As I've understood the defense since Gus took over, the defense includes these 46 concepts. As I understand all of this, the Jaguars are merely installing more of Seattle's entire defense.
So Gus Bradley and Bob Babich decided to spend two years teaching guys how the Seahawks play defense. Why didn't they want to install everything at the same time?
Quote:So Gus Bradley and Bob Babich decided to spend two years teaching guys how the Seahawks play defense. Why didn't they want to install everything at the same time?
They're were making due and scheming with the players they have to work with. There wasn't this kind of linebacker skillset on the roster they inherited last year. Allen and Geno are (were) both lateral persuit and chase linebackers, rather than guys who can lineup at the line of scrimmage and play upfield. God bless Geno, but he's 225 lbs and is not effective stacking and shedding at the point and blitzing, and ideally he's a will. That's why the Jags went out and signed Dekoda Watson, who played this kind of SAM at FSU and his first few years at Tampa under Raheem.
Also, this isn't an easy defense you just fully implement in one year (no NFL scheme is). It took the Seahawks several years to fully implement. Even using a basic vanilla version of it, Bradley had to scale it down during the bye week last year so they players could play faster.
Quote:Eric......the article states that we're moving away from the carbon copy of Seattles D to something closer to Buddy's 46. If Wes Hopkins was good enough for that, then Collins would certainly be good enough here.
The author is drawing parraells to the 4-6, but this role is a pretty standard in under 4-3 under fronts, of which Pete Carroll and Bradley come off the Kiffin tree. He has to be big and physical, because he's often going to be playing head up over the inline "Y" tight end and muscling with him in the perimeter running game, and he has to be agile enough to cover RBs in the flat, and then explosive enough to rush off the blitz in 3rd down situation.
![[Image: Slide1.jpg]](http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n80/artoftroy/4-3%20Under%20Diagrams/Slide1.jpg)
Mike Zimmer runs a Tampa based under 4-3 scheme, and he's always utilized a SAM like this. When he first ran an under 4-3 in Dallas, he brought in the zombie corpses of Broderick Thomas and Quintin Coryatt. In Cincy he used Manny Lawson and Michael Johnson. He envisions Anthony Barr playing this role.
Quote:Typically, our 'Sam' linebacker blitzes a lot more than our 'Will' linebacker, for instance," Zimmer said. "We're thinking of ways to continually try to pressure the quarterback as many times as we can, and the position he plays is a pressure position. That's why we felt good about him.
Almost exactly how Babich described the OTTO position.
Here's an evaluation of Watson from the people who watched him the last 4 years at Bucs Nation.
Quote:<i> </i>
<p style="font-family:'Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, serif;color:rgb(41,41,41);font-size:16px;font-style:italic;">Watson has also on occasion displayed some potential as a pass rusher, with his hand off or on the ground. He has tremendous burst and speed, and he flashes the ability to turn the corner and get to the quarterback, but he lacked a counter-move to go with his speed rush. I did see him execute a speed-to-power move effectively a couple of times, and if he can build on that he could actually turn into a quality situational pass-rusher. I could see him playing either Sam or (situational) Leo in your scheme, if the coaches can help him improve a little.
<p style="font-family:'Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, serif;color:rgb(41,41,41);font-size:16px;font-style:italic;">
<p style="font-family:'Mercury SSm A', 'Mercury SSm B', Georgia, serif;color:rgb(41,41,41);font-size:16px;font-style:italic;">Watson also had 6.5 sacks his Senior Season at FLorida State and played with his hand on the ground as a pass rusher at times. I was actually wondering if they might try Branch in this role, since Babin and Clemons have the LEO covered and there was some talk that Branch could play 3-4 OLB when he was coming out for the draft, but they might just view him as too much of a liability in space. I don't know what Branch's role is this year, and I think he could be a camp casualty.
Quote:Aight LEO is Light-End Opposite, what is OTTO?
I'm thinking that the "O" in Otto stands for Over. As in, the LB aligns himself over the top of any in-line Tight End.
Quote:I see it a bit diferently... Good ss's, imo, u can tack 30-40 pounds on and turn them into a great olb... Same goes in reverse... But u take some big olb hits and put em on a guy coming over the middle and looks dirty..... But to me thats just good play... Sure some guys are bad at hitting like bob sanders, but to me thats different than people who just like contact... Mojo loved contact, thats kinda the mentality im talkin about.
Did you see Waters play? He was dirty. Late hits. Cheap Shots. It had absolutely nothing to do with where he played.
Quote:I dunno about that. He was the kind of player most fans loved when he was on your own team but hated when he played for the opponent.
Fat Dan Deirdorf always made a big deal about Waters' play, but I don't think he was any dirtier than any of the so called "bad guys" of the time.
I'm thinking you must not have a very clear recollection of Waters' play if you're saying this. He was a JERK and a thug.
Andre Waters
Philadelphia Eagles defensive back Andre Waters was one of the hardest-hitting defenders in the league. His ferociousness on the field was an asset to the Eagles and feared by his opponents. Waters had a tendency to aim for a player’s knees on purpose to hurt them. In 1988 he did just that to Jim Everett which led to a new NFL rule, sometimes referred to as the ‘Andre Waters Rule,’ that said a player couldn’t hit a QB below the waist while in the pocket. He also caused an outrage by driving his helmet into the knees of Minnesota QB Rich Gannon. NFL Broadcaster Dan Dierdorf believed Waters gave dirty hits a lot and nicknamed the defender, ‘Dirty Waters.’ (AP Photo/Wilfredo Lee)
Quote:I'm thinking that the "O" in Otto stands for Over. As in, the LB aligns himself over the top of any in-line Tight End.
Unless I'm mistaken, that's pretty much what it is.
It's a complimenting pass rusher on the opposite side of LEO.
Doesn't this sound like a fit for Telvin Smith too?
I just hope the "otto" is more effective than the "ow" was last year......
Quote:Doesn't this sound like a fit for Telvin Smith too?
Not at all, the OTTO seems to be very close to the line of scrimmage and take on blocks every play. Telvin is great in space but he isn't big enough to take this role.
Quote:It's always made sense to me that if you have a LEO on the weak side, the SAM backer would probably blitz more than in a typical 4-3. That said, Babich said the OTTO might rush from the strong or weak side meaning at times you could see the LEO and OTTO closing in from the same side.
Is the position of the three down linemen the main difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 using a LEO and an OTTO?
Quote:Is the position of the three down linemen the main difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 using a LEO and an OTTO?
Sounds that way. Whereas the 3-4 alignment has the d line evenly spread out, this may have the line shifted with a wide 9 on one side with the OTTO outside him or on the other side. Thinking bout it now with the Leo usually wide, with this Otto lb, they could stunt with the tackle being on an island.....nice
Quote:Is the position of the three down linemen the main difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 using a LEO and an OTTO?
Yes. The best way to really grasp these defense and what we are running as a base is to get a better understanding of defensive linemen techniques and gaps assignments. Without this it is really hard to truly understand what you are looking at on tv or the way it's described. Bradley is really implementing football theory when it comes to the sets he uses.
Quote:Yes. The best way to really grasp these defense and what we are running as a base is to get a better understanding of defensive linemen techniques and gaps assignments. Without this it is really hard to truly understand what you are looking at on tv or the way it's described. Bradley is really implementing football theory when it comes to the sets he uses.
Yep, this is why ya gotta have smart dudes, even at positions that are "not QB"...
Quote:Yep, this is why ya gotta have smart dudes, even at positions that are "not QB"...
That's why I feel this whole offseason was a masterful job by Caldwell and Bradley. He got free agents that played in the scheme but added guys like Hood who have experience in complex schemes. Even using the the senior bowl as a pre rookie mini camp was smart because guys like the smith twins are ahead of the curve in grasping the concepts and theories we are implementing.
Quote:So Gus Bradley and Bob Babich decided to spend two years teaching guys how the Seahawks play defense. Why didn't they want to install everything at the same time?
Because they didn't have the talent (players) that could execute it.
We didn't have an Otto. You could easily argue we haven't had an effective LEO, either.
Quote:Is the position of the three down linemen the main difference between a 3-4 and a 4-3 using a LEO and an OTTO?
Yes.
It's a four man front, but more of a hybrid of both. The LEO is like a rush OLB in a 3-4, as is the Otto on the other side... except LEO is a down on the line and Otto is not.
Two of the three other down linemen have similar roles to the down linemen in a 3-4 as well.
With the right talent who know their responsibilities, it gives you the best of both schemes in theory. Like any scheme it comes down to execution.