Quote:The Jaguars should be in the business of collecting more young players who are good at football, not giving them away.
Shorts isn't going to break the bank as a free agent, and his cap considerations will be virtually nihil. The Jags already have more cap space than they can sensibly allocate it towards, and the NFL is about to sign a new astronomical TV deal which will bump up the cap ceiling another 30% in the new few year.
You don't know what Shorts' agent is asking for. You're assuming he'll be a cheap re-sign.
You don't overpay a player just because you "can", also....that sets the ball rolling for other players to also demand it and sets up a slippery slope for cap problems later.
Quote:What if the Browns are not done trying to acquire WR's and they offered us a 2015 3rd round pick for Cecil Shorts?
How would you all feel about it? Remember, Gene Smith drafted him, and they are jettisoning those guys quickly.
I believe Shorts will be a free agent after this year and might be gone anyways, since I expect Lee and Robinson to be better by year's end. He has been a little injury-prone, which are both reasons I believe we drafted two WR's so early.
We aren't a player away from the Super Bowl, and a 3rd round pick for next year might come in handy to continue to rebuild the O-line.
On the down side, it would be nice to have at least one proven vet WR to show the new-comers the ropes.
WR's would be:
1. Lee
2. Robinson
3. Sanders
4. Brown
5. Doss
6. Taylor or Hurns or pick up Greg Little
At least two of those guys above will probably be cut before the season starts. I wouldnt worry about trading Cecil for a 3rd round pick, as i dont think too many teams would do that especially with only a year from Free Agency.
Quote:You don't know what Shorts' agent is asking for. You're assuming he'll be a cheap re-sign.
You don't overpay a player just because you "can", also....that sets the ball rolling for other players to also demand it and sets up a slippery slope for cap problems later.
As I said earlier in the thread, the contract negotiations and what Shorts might be asking for is one reason I thought about starting this thread.
If he wants more than what Caldwell thinks he is worth, and he tries to play hardball, I think Caldwell won't hesitate to ship him out for some draft picks (especially after being a little injur-proned, being a Gene Smith pick, and the Jags drafting two stud WR's early in the draft).
Quote:At least two of those guys above will probably be cut before the season starts. I wouldnt worry about trading Cecil for a 3rd round pick, as i dont think too many teams would do that especially with only a year from Free Agency.
Cleveland still needs WR's. Gordon will be suspended for who knows how long, Little was released and Beurleson has a broken arm. The two free agents they picked up are both question marks that nobody else wanted.
Shorts is from the Ohio area I believe. At least he played college ball there.
Based on all that, I think the Browns might feel a 3rd rounder would be fair for Shorts. If not, maybe a 4th and a 6th or something.
So if Robinson or Lee get injured. Or god forbid -- both do. What then?
Quote:Speaking of ignorance.... more veiled insults from an "administrator" who holds others to such a high standard on board rules.
Once again, we know you didn't come up with the suggestion, and you don't think it is a good idea, so obviously in your mind it is "ignorance". Several people people have not "scoffed" at the idea, and they see the logic in it. Of course they don't have a personal agenda against me going back years, as you seem to have.
They might re-sign Shorts, but I will be surprised if it is not a trade-friendly deal, leaving open the possibility of moving him later or next year.
By the way, you're the one who is keeping the thread on the front page with your need to reply every time I post.
Feel free to stop posting in the thread any time if it is so ignorant. Your ridicule and insults won't be missed.
we should try to trade bortles for a second and a third.
Quote:As I said earlier in the thread, the contract negotiations and what Shorts might be asking for is one reason I thought about starting this thread.
If he wants more than what Caldwell thinks he is worth, and he tries to play hardball, I think Caldwell won't hesitate to ship him out for some draft picks (especially after being a little injur-proned, being a Gene Smith pick, and the Jags drafting two stud WR's early in the draft).
Quote:So if Robinson or Lee get injured. Or god forbid -- both do. What then?
Funny that scenario played out with the Monroe/ Joeckel example last year....and they still win 4 games....
Lets stop pretending that 2014 is the playoff year, and lets also stop pretending that Shorts is some intregal piece. He's a cog. Thats it.
Quote:So if Robinson or Lee get injured. Or god forbid -- both do. What then?
You could say the same for any other position on this weak roster couldn't you?
You think we are going to the playoffs with Shorts, but without him we have no chance? We aren't going to the playoffs this year no matter what. It's still about building for the future. Specifically 2015 and beyond when Bortles becomes the unquestioned starter.
Quote:we should try to trade bortles for a second and a third.
Yes,
even comparison... 
Bortles has franchise QB potential and is 23.
Shorts is a mere cog at a position that is manageable, especially with a WR coach with the ability of Sullivan....and is in the last year of his current deal.
Quote:It's interesting to see how some people see a trade of Shorts as a total bone-headed move, while others see that it easily makes sense, especially after what happened with Eugene Monroe last year.
I can't help but laugh at the people that totally dismiss the idea and think Shorts is so good, when he has only had one better than average year.
Well, to be clear, I'm not advocating that the Jags office should be really pushing to trade/shopping Shorts (vet receiver, whose currently in talks about being resigned).
He's a good, not great wr. Good player for the Jags to have. I just wouldn't be upset if another team came along with some sort of good offer, and the Jags cashed in on some good value while it's still there. I'd take it, if it were to happen.
I don't think this has to be a topic where people can only be on one side of the argument or the other. It's a "win" either way, IMO. Jags keep a good wr for a few years,, or they get some good value for him somewhere else.
Quote:Yes, even comparison...
Bortles has franchise QB potential and is 23.
Shorts is a mere cog at a position that is manageable, especially with a WR coach with the ability of Sullivan.
Not to even mention Shorts was a 4th round pick.
For his point to not be ridiculously stupid right from the start we'd have to be trading Bortles for more than we just spent on him.
Quote:Well, to be clear, I'm not advocating that the Jags office should be really pushing to trade/shopping Shorts (vet receiver, whose currently in talks about being resigned).
He's a good, not great wr. Good player for the Jags to have. I just wouldn't be upset if another team came along with some sort of good offer, and the Jags cashed in on some good value while it's still there. I'd take it, if it were to happen.
I don't think this has to be a topic where people can only be on one side of the argument or the other. It's a "win" either way, IMO. Jags keep a good wr for a few years,, or they get some good value for him somewhere else.
Its also a topic where IMO, once the Jags actually did trade him (should that ever happen), much of the same contingent that was on the "don't trade Shorts" side will have flipped to the other side anyway...
If the Jags can get the Monroe level compensation for Shorts they should make the trade. Otherwise, keep him.
Quote:Yes, even comparison...
Bortles has franchise QB potential and is 23.
Shorts is a mere cog at a position that is manageable, especially with a WR coach with the ability of Sullivan.
i was being ludicrous to establish a point. at some point in time you need to actually have players instead of picks. picks are great, but players are the ones that produce. he is our only dependable WR and is only 26 years old with plenty of experience. his value to us is much higher than the value we would get for him. cecil for the jaguars is > than an unknown 3rd or 4th rounder.
also there is no point in writing off a playoff run this year.
Quote:i was being ludicrous to establish a point. at some point in time you need to actually have players instead of picks. picks are great, but players are the ones that produce. he is our only dependable WR and is only 26 years old with plenty of experience. his value to us is much higher than the value we would get for him. cecil for the jaguars is > than an unknown 3rd or 4th rounder.
also there is no point in writing off a playoff run this year.
There is also no point in treating Shorts as if he's Jerry Rice.
Other than the draft choices from 2013-2014, there is no player that is untouchable for a potential trade on this roster (if the price is right)
Quote:There is also no point in treating Shorts as if he's Jerry Rice.
Other than the draft choices from 2013-2014, there is no player that is untouchable for a potential trade on this roster (if the price is right)
what good is a third rounder to the jaguars right now? again he is the only player with experience at the position and he has been very productive (esp considering who was throwing him the ball and the talent around him.)
that third rounder could wind up being a total bust, or you can hang on to shorts who provides veteran leadership, experience, and production on a team that is still lacking talent.
that third rounder is nothing more than an idea. what helps the team more? cecil or an idea?
Last year we didn't have what we hope to be our franchise QB on the roster. You want him to have enough weapons and protection to be able to perform. Even if he sits the entire year, there's still next year. I think the Monroe trade was just 'okay', and I think it wouldn't have been as good in as deep of a draft as this one was.
You don't just trade players to get more picks for ammunition. You do it with a plan.
Quote:Not trolling. A lot of passing this year just does not add up to me with the young WR's, Henne/rookie Bortles at QB, questionable O-line/pass protection.
Sure Gerhart might get 12-16 touches, but Storm and Todman will get another 10-12 probably.
I might be wrong, but I honestly don't see us airing it out this year. Like I said before, maybe next year that starts.
Having a veteran to help lead them is not a bad thing.
Trading a guy that can help the team now, and probably in the future, doesnt make much sense.
Quote:Funny that scenario played out with the Monroe/ Joeckel example last year....and they still win 4 games....
Lets stop pretending that 2014 is the playoff year, and lets also stop pretending that Shorts is some intregal piece. He's a cog. Thats it.
Are we already going to start thinking lose games again for a better pick? The coaching staff is trying to change the culture.....you are trying to keep it the same.
Quote:You don't know what Shorts' agent is asking for. You're assuming he'll be a cheap re-sign.
You don't overpay a player just because you "can", also....that sets the ball rolling for other players to also demand it and sets up a slippery slope for cap problems later
I know he's not going to get Larry Fitzgerald money, or some hundred million dollar contract that's going to be any sort of ablatross to the franchise. At this point, the Jags are going to have to overpay several players just to reach the CBA mandated cap floor next year.
And yes, let's give away all of our players who are good at football to circumvent some hellish nightmare doomsday dystopian scenerio where we have cap problems leading to a team of bad football players. One way to steer clear of a tommorrow's hypothetical is to make it reality today. That's completely logical. Good thinking.
I'm not advocating resign just any player. For instance, You don't resign a 31 year old to a huge contract who's on the downside of his career and will never duplicate his prime year production. You do resign a 26 year old player who's entering his prime years and who's arrow is poiting upgoing up. If the Broncos value Peyton Manning enough to surround him Emmanuel Sanders, Wes Welker and Damaryius Thomas, the least the Jaguars could do for their poor QBs is give them ONE wide receiver who's established a 700+ yard receiving season in his career.
Quote:Are we already going to start thinking lose games again for a better pick? The coaching staff is trying to change the culture.....you are trying to keep it the same.
I'm not, are you?....LOL, do you actually think the difference of having SHorts on the roster as opposed to someone else really makes that much difference as to the W/ L thinking??
.gif "Laughing")
Going forward, this team isn't winning any more games with Shorts than without him.
Quote:I know he's not going to get Larry Fitzgerald money.
You're right. You don't resign just any player. You don't resign a 31 year old who's on the downside of his career. You do resign a 26 year old player who's entering his prime years and who's arrow is going up.
Who's saying not to re-sign
any player?
If you think theres this unfound ground in Shorts' game/ career, I think you're sadly mistaken. WYSIWYG.
He's decent, but I see both Lee and Robinson as better players, and in the end Shorts will be lucky to be beating out Sanders for reps.
What people aren't considering here is that as Lee and Robinson ascent, Shorts' importance goes down. Do you really want to allocate even "decent" money and a long term for a player that isn't going to have much relevance in about a year (at most). Maybe even by seasons end....
...and I don't see Shorts taking a 1 or 2 year show me deal, either.