Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:No, in the first round you need guys that will be the core of your team. You hope they can be pro-bowlers, but 32 guys get picked in the first round every year. All of them won't be pro-bowlers.

 

Now the top 10 is a different matter, in the top 10 you should be selecting elite prospects if they're available and never passing on an elite prospect for someone to fill a roster slot.

 

Agree and TMD should take serious note of this. I could see if Cyp was taken top 10 or top 15 but he was early second round and those are often starters who have great potential but if they dont reach it are still fairly productive and have long careers as core pieces of the team.

Quote:If that's the standard, you are going to be let down. A lot.

 

No, you have just become accepting of mediocre. The standard Tom Coughlin brought with getting that type of player in the first round is how it should be.....and to no surprise the team, in turn, was good at that point. Thats what it takes. 

Quote:He sets unrealistic expectations so he can rant and rave when they're not met.

 

Obviously its not "unrealistic" expectations. Coughlin met those expectations at least 4 times from the 1995 draft to 2002. Since that point, How many first round draft picks of ours have equaled the level of those 4? None, maybe?....And I won't even count the 2 drafted in the Caldwell era yet since its too soon. 

Quote:Lefevour and Mallet would be our QBs.


Shorts would have been cut in favor of Jarret Dillard.

 

Lefeavor and Dillard wouldn't still be here unless they panned out, so thats a stupid thing to assert.  

Quote:No, you have just become accepting of mediocre. The standard Tom Coughlin brought with getting that type of player in the first round is how it should be.....and to no surprise the team, in turn, was good at that point. Thats what it takes. 

 

:blink:

 

Cyprien is a Darius-like SS, and he wasn't taken until the second round.

 

Just wow...

Quote: :blink:

 

Cyprien is a Darius-like SS, and he wasn't taken until the second round.

 

Just wow...

 

Darius isn't Tom's first rounders I'm giving the credit/ setting the standard with. 

 

Boselli/ Taylor/ Henderson/ Stroud are. 

 

So, try to keep up. 

I would take Darius where Cyp was taken every day of the year and I think many other people would too.

 

If Cyp pans out into a Darius like player then he's a great value at where he was taken undoubtedly.

Quote:Point is you can find Box Safeties and good ones, later in the draft. The only reason why a team should EVER select a SS as high as we took Cyprien (or higher) is if they project to the type of player that Polamalu is. 

 

Otherwise its a waste. 

 

I also totally disagree that Cyprien would be a first rounder in a redo. Why would he be. Not sure what impressed you so much last season. 

 

 

Most SS, Punters, Kickers, OG, and blocking TE can all be got with 5th round or later selections. ALways. 

nfl.com did a redraft of the first round and cyp was in it. 

Quote:Agree and TMD should take serious note of this. I could see if Cyp was taken top 10 or top 15 but he was early second round and those are often starters who have great potential but if they dont reach it are still fairly productive and have long careers as core pieces of the team.

 

Much of this conversation is based on a tacit presumption (mostly by TMD) that Cyprien will never develop into a Pro Bowl player, based solely on a rookie year performance on what is likely the worst roster talent wise in the league.

 

I submit that with some additional talent around him, Cyprien won't be in the single high as much and will play in the box more.  Put in a position to make plays, he will.  If he had a rough rookie year but makes the pro bowl by year 3-4, he's well worth the first pick in the 2nd round.

Quote:I disagree. If you draft someone in the first round, you gotta expect more than just getting a "quality starter". And I agree Darius was a decent starter. !st rounders gotta be players that are amongst the best players at their positions, once developed. Henderson, Stroud, Taylor, Boselli would all fit that criteria. They were worthy picks.


Cyp at 33 is right on the cusp of a first rounder. So you gotta get close to that level I illustrated. Cyprien will top out at Darius level.

you wanted a 4-3 LB in the 2nd and called him the next Ray Lewis/Mike Singletary and the guy rarely seen the field. Haha. I just wish u knew a little bit about this sport!

Quote:Darius isn't Tom's first rounders I'm giving the credit/ setting the standard with. 

 

Boselli/ Taylor/ Henderson/ Stroud are. 

 

So, try to keep up. 

 

So then because players not drafted in the first half of the first round like your standard bearers don't play to that level, that means they weren't good picks?!?

Quote:I would take Darius where Cyp was taken every day of the year and I think many other people would too.

 

If Cyp pans out into a Darius like player then he's a great value at where he was taken undoubtedly.

 

I think you need better from that with a selection as high as he was taken. 

 

Quote:nfl.com did a redraft of the first round and cyp was in it. 

 

Was the 2013 draft class that bad?

 

Suffice to say, a guy like that would probably be 3rd round in the upcoming draft. 

Quote:Much of this conversation is based on a tacit presumption (mostly by TMD) that Cyprien will never develop into a Pro Bowl player, based solely on a rookie year performance on what is likely the worst roster talent wise in the league.


I submit that with some additional talent around him, Cyprien won't be in the single high as much and will play in the box more. Put in a position to make plays, he will. If he had a rough rookie year but makes the pro bowl by year 3-4, he's well worth the first pick in the 2nd round.

If he is going off his rookie year then he losses all credability cause the 2 players he wanted were Jonathan Banks and Arthur Brown who both had worse rookie seasons. On top of that he called Brown the next Ray Lewis/ Mike Singletary lol.

Quote:So then because players not drafted in the first half of the first round like your standard bearers don't play to that level, that means they weren't good picks?!?

 

I wouldn't label him a bust or anything, but IMO you gotta get a higher level of player with your first rounders. I understand it won't happen every year. But to be "satisfied" with a player of just Darius/ Cyrpien ability with a first round pick is lame. From 2003-2012 we had no players taken in the first round that are of the 4 I mentioned that Coughlin set the standard with. Its no surprise the team pretty much went through that period until today, bad. 

Quote:I think you need better from that with a selection as high as he was taken.



Was the 2013 draft class that bad?


Suffice to say, a guy like that would probably be 3rd round in the upcoming draft.

wrong again, Cyp would easily be the best SS in this class

Quote:I wouldn't label him a bust or anything, but IMO you gotta get a higher level of player with your first rounders. I understand it won't happen every year. But to be "satisfied" with a player of just Darius/ Cyrpien ability with a first round pick is lame. From 2003-2012 we had no players taken in the first round that are of the 4 I mentioned that Coughlin set the standard with. Its no surprise the team pretty much went through that period until today, bad. 

 

I get you want high performers with high picks.  Every Jaguars fan gets that.

 

But to say Cyprien is a wasted pick if he performs at Darius' level is silly, especially considering he was picked in the second round, not the first like Darius.

 

Furthermore, Darius played good football for the Jaguars during his stint here.  Was a he a perennial All Pro like Brian Dawkins?  No.  But he was a quality starter and enforcer in the secondary.  He had a career that many first round picks wish they had.

 

Don't let prior regimes first round failures warp your perspective.

 

If any of the prior first round picks performed with the level of play, consistency and longevity as Darius, they wouldn't be deemed failures, and you know it. 

Quote:wrong again, Cyp would easily be the best SS in this class

 

Cyp went 33 last year and this draft class is much stronger/ deeper. 

 

So, not wrong. 

 

Cyprien would go somewhere past 60 in this upcoming draft, IMO. 

Quote:I get you want high performers with high picks.  Every Jaguars fan gets that.

 

But to say Cyprien is a wasted pick if he performs at Darius' level is silly, especially considering he was picked in the second round, not the first like Darius.

 

Furthermore, Darius played good football for the Jaguars during his stint here.  Was a he a perennial All Pro like Brian Dawkins?  No.  But he was a quality starter and enforcer in the secondary.  He had a career that many first round picks wish they had.

 

Don't let prior regimes first round failures warp your perspective.

 

If any of the prior first round picks performed with the level of play, consistency and longevity as Darius, they wouldn't be deemed failures, and you know it. 

 

I agree with this completely.. Darius may not have been a superstar, but he gave the defense continuity along with being a very solid starter. If Cyprien turns out like this, he's great pick. 

Quote:I get you want high performers with high picks.  Every Jaguars fan gets that.

 

But to say Cyprien is a wasted pick if he performs at Darius' level is silly, especially considering he was picked in the second round, not the first like Darius.

 

Furthermore, Darius played good football for the Jaguars during his stint here.  Was a he a perennial All Pro like Brian Dawkins?  No.  But he was a quality starter and enforcer in the secondary.  He had a career that many first round picks wish they had.

 

Don't let prior regimes first round failures warp your perspective.

 

If any of the prior first round picks performed with the level of play, consistency and longevity as Darius, they wouldn't be deemed failures, and you know it. 

 

I posted a thread the morning of the second round last year about Cyprien as a potential pick at 33. I compared Cyprien to Dawkins.

 

TMD compared him to Sabby Piscatelli.

 

It was clear he really has no idea who Cyprien was.

Quote:Suffice to say, a guy like that would probably be 3rd round in the upcoming draft. 

LOL