Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Suh is a beast. Swap #1's and get him here.

I agree with everybody a little bit. 

1)I want Suh, would take him in a heartbeat. Gus likes that kind of brash defensive player(look at Seattle's defensive-squad)

2)He's too pricey at this point tho, don't want to pay the premium

3)Would come with lots of character-questionmarks, still worth the headache IMO tho.

I doubt they trade him.  He's one of the most dominant players in the league, even if he is a piece of crap.  And if they don't resign Fairley, Lions will have a revolving door at DT.


Even if they did trade him, it wouldn't be because of the money, it would be because of him being too much of a headache on and off the field, which we wouldn't want to be a part of.

Quote:I doubt they trade him.  He's one of the most dominant players in the league
, even if he is a piece of crap.  And if they don't resign Fairley, Lions will have a revolving door at DT.

Even if they did trade him, it wouldn't be because of the money, it would be because of him being too much of a headache on and off the field, which we wouldn't want to be a part of.

 

I would disagree that he is dominant. Detroit's Defense has had one Top Ten Ranking in the Categories of Rushing Yards Allowed, Yards Allowed per Attempt, and Passing Yards Allowed. That was this past season when they ranked sixth overall in Rushing Yards Allowed.

 

Suh himself has only had one double digit Sack season and that was his rookie year when he had 10. Granted, he was an All Pro in his rookie and the 2013 seasons, and that carries a lot of weight with me, but I don't see him as one of the more dominant players. Notorious? Undoubtedly, Dominant? Nah, not for a guy that has been 'No Stated' in five games over the past two seasons.

Quote:I would disagree that he is dominant. Detroit's Defense has had one Top Ten Ranking in the Categories of Rushing Yards Allowed, Yards Allowed per Attempt, and Passing Yards Allowed. That was this past season when they ranked sixth overall in Rushing Yards Allowed.

 

Suh himself has only had one double digit Sack season and that was his rookie year when he had 10. Granted, he was an All Pro in his rookie and the 2013 seasons, and that carries a lot of weight with me, but I don't see him as one of the more dominant players. Notorious? Undoubtedly, Dominant? Nah, not for a guy that has been 'No Stated' in five games over the past two seasons.

You don't pick up a DT for sacks. 10 sacks for a DT is phenomenal. Not sure why people would bring sack numbers up when talking about DT's.

Suh + 2nd rounder + late pick maybe.

Suh would be just adding poison to the Gus Juice.. 

Quote:You don't pick up a DT for sacks. 10 sacks for a DT is phenomenal. Not sure why people would bring sack numbers up when talking about DT's.

 

If he's a dominant guy, then wouldn't that be a part of the conversation? John Randle - granted, he is a HoF caliber player - had multiple double digit sack seasons as did Clyde Simmons and Warren Sapp. I grant you that 10 sacks for a DT is an incredible feat, but for a player to be really dominant, then that's who he needs to compare to.

They can keep Suh.  I'll deal with them for picks though.

Quote:If he's a dominant guy, then wouldn't that be a part of the conversation? John Randle - granted, he is a HoF caliber player - had multiple double digit sack seasons as did Clyde Simmons and Warren Sapp. I grant you that 10 sacks for a DT is an incredible feat, but for a player to be really dominant, then that's who he needs to compare to.

You can't just look at stats.  It depends a lot on the scheme, the pace of the game, how many people are blocking him, etc.

Quote:You can't just look at stats.  It depends a lot on the scheme, the pace of the game, how many people are blocking him, etc.

 

I know, and that's why I put in the overall Defensive ranking in there. Granted, one guy cannot drag a whole unit to top level form, especially a guy playing DT, but shouldn't their ranking be a little better?

 

I'm not saying that Suh isn't a very good to great player; I just don't think that he dominates games. At least, not enough for me to want to pay him upwards of $10 million for one year of his services.

Quote:I know, and that's why I put in the overall Defensive ranking in there. Granted, one guy cannot drag a whole unit to top level form, especially a guy playing DT, but shouldn't their ranking be a little better?

 

I'm not saying that Suh isn't a very good to great player; I just don't think that he dominates games. At least, not enough for me to want to pay him upwards of $10 million for one year of his services.

Their secondary was absolutely awful.  Like one of the worst in the league.  Even with a really good front 7, you can't do much when guys are running wide open.  Also depends on how often the offense is turning over the ball.

For Suh and a third-round pick, yeah, I'd trade back. Suh alone? No way. Too big of a liability on the field to drop seven slots for him.

Quote:If he's a dominant guy, then wouldn't that be a part of the conversation? John Randle - granted, he is a HoF caliber player - had multiple double digit sack seasons as did Clyde Simmons and Warren Sapp. I grant you that 10 sacks for a DT is an incredible feat, but for a player to be really dominant, then that's who he needs to compare to.

Those guys you listed are all timers of the position. Sacks at the level those DT's produced are phenomenal. Not something you typically see or get from interior defensive lineman. Those guys aren't drafted to rush the passer. They are to collapse the pocket and stop the run.

 

Simmons was a DE

The Lions lost 6 out of 7 games at the end of the 2013 season,  after having the lead in all of these games in the 4th QTR.  With the exception of the games in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia,  it was the Lions Offense that was noticeably more responsible for the other 4 losses.    This team would have won the NFC North if the Offense held up its end of the bargain.

 

Ndamukong Suh certainly had a Pro Bowl caliber season in 2013.   Suh made a greater positive impact in 2013 than he did as a rookie in 2010,  when he had a 10 sack season.   Suh had a large number of QB pressures in 2013,  despite getting the most attention up front,  and helped create plays for his teammates.   His run Defense was better than ever. 

 

 While I respect the opinions of those who wouldn't want the Jaguars to acquire Suh based on his contract situation,  trade compensation,  and/ or don't like the way Suh conducts himself,   the Lions are in much better shape with Suh than without him.   I'm far from convinced that the Lions are seeking to trade Suh along the lines of what the article in the beginning of the thread mentioned. 

Suh + Haha/Barr would make this defense pretty nasty. 

Trade me Megatron and the 10th pick and we should give up the 3rd pick to Detroit. Otherwise no thanks.

In that scenario, we'd be sending Detroit the third pick, and they'd be sending us Johnson and nothing else.

Quote:Those guys you listed are all timers of the position. Sacks at the level those DT's produced are phenomenal. Not something you typically see or get from interior defensive lineman. Those guys aren't drafted to rush the passer. They are to collapse the pocket and stop the run.

 

Simmons was a DE

 

But isn't that what a dominant guy is? An All-Timer? If I'm going to trade for a guy and pay him $10 million for one year of service, have to put up with his one game suspension, and then go into contract negotiations with him on a long term deal, then I kinda want him to be an All-Timer.

 

And for some reason I always thought of Simmons as a DT, mea culpa if I was wrong.

Quote:But isn't that what a dominant guy is? An All-Timer? If I'm going to trade for a guy and pay him $10 million for one year of service, have to put up with his one game suspension, and then go into contract negotiations with him on a long term deal, then I kinda want him to be an All-Timer.


And for some reason I always thought of Simmons as a DT, mea culpa if I was wrong.

Why does he need to be an all-timer? Why isn't top 5 at his postion good enough?


I wouldn't make the deal unless there were some assurances a fair contract could be done.