Quote:Why does he need to be an all-timer? Why isn't top 5 at his postion good enough?
I wouldn't make the deal unless there were some assurances a fair contract could be done.
My response to your first two questions is rooted in your second sentence; I want him to be an all timer for the same reason that I want an assurance on a fair contract. If I sign a guy for $10 million a year, I'm expecting dominant play, not just good to very good play, especially when I am going to have to go back and negotiate with the guy in a year. Suh is the second highest paid DT in the League, to me that means that top five performance isn't matching pay with performance.
I don't think Suh is a good fit for the culture Bradley is trying to establish. The Lions made him a team captain, and they have a new coaching staff, and they are installing a new defense, and here we are in the first voluntary workouts, where players can meet with coaches, and he hasn't shown up with the other players. He's not there. It's no wonder they want to trade him. I would say no. He doesn't fit our culture.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...mukong-suh
Freeman:
"Suh is a captain beginning with a new coaching staff. This would have been the perfect time to make a positive impression on his new bosses. Instead, he decided to stay home. It's irrelevant that he could still show up to mini-camp or training camp in shape. It's more about leadership. He's a captain, and captains are usually the men who set the examples."
And here we are trying to establish a positive team culture. Do you really want a guy that doesn't show up in the situation the Lions are in? Not me.
Plus he's expensive and he's going into a contract year. This is not a good fit for us.
Quote:But isn't that what a dominant guy is? An All-Timer? If I'm going to trade for a guy and pay him $10 million for one year of service, have to put up with his one game suspension, and then go into contract negotiations with him on a long term deal, then I kinda want him to be an All-Timer.
And for some reason I always thought of Simmons as a DT, mea culpa if I was wrong.
So everyone being paid top 2-3 money attheir positions at any given time should be all timers? Doesn't work that way. That's the market, and for a player his caliber, it fits. He is top 2-3 at his position now and instantly makes the defense better.
Quote:I don't think Suh is a good fit for the culture Bradley is trying to establish. The Lions made him a team captain, and they have a new coaching staff, and they are installing a new defense, and here we are in the first voluntary workouts, where players can meet with coaches, and he hasn't shown up with the other players. He's not there. It's no wonder they want to trade him. I would say no. He doesn't fit our culture.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...mukong-suh
Freeman:
"Suh is a captain beginning with a new coaching staff. This would have been the perfect time to make a positive impression on his new bosses. Instead, he decided to stay home. It's irrelevant that he could still show up to mini-camp or training camp in shape. It's more about leadership. He's a captain, and captains are usually the men who set the examples."
And here we are trying to establish a positive team culture. Do you really want a guy that doesn't show up in the situation the Lions are in? Not me.
Plus he's expensive and he's going into a contract year. This is not a good fit for us.
Sounds like MJD. Some guys choose to work out on their own.
Quote:So everyone being paid top 2-3 money attheir positions at any given time should be all timers? Doesn't work that way. That's the market, and for a player his caliber, it fits. He is top 2-3 at his position now and instantly makes the defense better.
I get your point and I guess - or hope - that you get mine. To me, I wouldn't trade for Suh even though I acknowledge that he would make the Defense better.
Quote:I get your point and I guess - or hope - that you get mine. To me, I wouldn't trade for Suh even though I acknowledge that he would make the Defense better.
I think most of us agree on not wanting him here because of his attitude, but it's moot anyway since Detroit won't get rid of him until his play takes a sharp decline.
Quote:I get your point and I guess - or hope - that you get mine. To me, I wouldn't trade for Suh even though I acknowledge that he would make the Defense better.
I don't think the Jags would make that move, just a feeling, but I would be first in line to vote if that's how they were going to determine it.
I love Suh, have since his days at Nebraska. He should have won the Heisman that year. Best, most dominant player of that season, easy. His issues on the field do not bother me a bit. That's the NFL we live in now a days. Had he played 10, 15, 20 years ago he would have been considered tame compared to what went on from some players.
Quote:The Lions lost 6 out of 7 games at the end of the 2013 season, after having the lead in all of these games in the 4th QTR. With the exception of the games in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, it was the Lions Offense that was noticeably more responsible for the other 4 losses. This team would have won the NFC North if the Offense held up its end of the bargain.
Ndamukong Suh certainly had a Pro Bowl caliber season in 2013. Suh made a greater positive impact in 2013 than he did as a rookie in 2010, when he had a 10 sack season. Suh had a large number of QB pressures in 2013, despite getting the most attention up front, and helped create plays for his teammates. His run Defense was better than ever.
While I respect the opinions of those who wouldn't want the Jaguars to acquire Suh based on his contract situation, trade compensation, and/ or don't like the way Suh conducts himself, the Lions are in much better shape with Suh than without him. I'm far from convinced that the Lions are seeking to trade Suh along the lines of what the article in the beginning of the thread mentioned.
Thanks for the perspective D6. I trust your opinion, especially on Detroit matters. If you wouldn't mind keeping Suh, then he's probably less of a negative influence with the team/ coaches than I had imagined he was being.
Quote:My response to your first two questions is rooted in your second sentence; I want him to be an all timer for the same reason that I want an assurance on a fair contract. If I sign a guy for $10 million a year, I'm expecting dominant play, not just good to very good play, especially when I am going to have to go back and negotiate with the guy in a year. Suh is the second highest paid DT in the League, to me that means that top five performance isn't matching pay with performance.
I just think your expectations for a player are way too high. A very good player (I think Suh is dominant) is worth 10 mil a year.
For what it's worth he graded out as the 2nd best DT according to pff last year.
Quote:I just think your expectations for a player are way too high. A very good player (I think Suh is dominant) is worth 10 mil a year.
For what it's worth he graded out as the 2nd best DT according to pff last year.
No question. To swap picks from 3 to 10 and get a player like Suh? I salivate thinking about it.
I keep clicking on this thread because people keep voting.
I would swap picks with the Lions in a heartbeat if Suh was included, Suh is a top 5 DT, and you can go to 10 and pick a QB or WR like Evans and you get a dominate DL guy even tho you miss out on Clowney. Now I would want Suh to agree to an extension befoer I make the trade.
I would have to get some compensation for this. Like a 2 or a 3 and 4. We would be doing the Lions a favor if they are tired of Suh's ways. Would this deal be healthy for our team? I feel not!
Also would have to have extended deal set in place before he becomes a Jag
Quote:I would have to get some compensation for this. Like a 2 or a 3 and 4. We would be doing the Lions a favor if they are tired of Suh's ways. Would this deal be healthy for our team? I feel not!
Also would have to have extended deal set in place before he becomes a Jag
If Suh did become a Jag, and they made that trade, the Jags could then likely select Barr, Gilbert or Evans at 10.
The DL at that point?
Clemons/ Marks/ Suh/ Barr
with solid depth behind that
Ok, hold up. Before the hating or cheering commences, this is just a scenario. And while unlikely, is still a possibility. Here's how the scenario would need to play out.
1. A strong desire and willingness for the Lions to move up.
2. Negotiations between Ndamukong Suh and the Lions can't have been going well.
3. Bradley and Caldwell must agree that someone of Suh's skill set and behavior patterns can work in Jacksonville .
4. A trade of 1st rd picks (3rd pick for Ndamukong Suh + 10th pick and other compensations, if any). Assuming the player Detroit wants is there at the 3rd spot.
5. Suh would obviously need to agree to a contract restructure. Jacksonville would NOT pay the 22 mill.
6. The Jaguars deciding Manziel is their man, and only if he's still there, take him at 10.
7. All that red tape. And lots of it.
Good or bad, the Jags would become (IN MY OPINION) instant division contenders and by far one of the most popular teams on the planet, not just in the NFL. Every social media site would explode, and the NFL Network and ESPN would be set for years. The league would have their Super Heroes or Super Villains, depending on how you look at it.
Suh... Would he play 3-tech, I thought Marks did pretty well there.
Give me Teddy B instead of Manziel and i'd like it.
Quote:I don't see now you can say that. None of us know what kind of guys are on caldwells radar. There's probably a .01% chance we do this but it's too soon to say what kind of players Caldwell will target.
So, you question how I could say it, then set the odds at a level basically supporting my contention? Really going out on a limb there.
Quote:So, you question how I could say it, then set the odds at a level basically supporting my contention? Really going out on a limb there.
You said "Suh is not going to be a guy on Caldwell's radar" which to me implies he has character issues you don't see Caldwell looking past. I'm questioning how you know what kind of players Caldwell will target, not the trade.
Our pick and Blackmon for theirs and Suh?