Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Yes, you did so indirectly.

So you interpreted it as an indirect complain...  aka.. you are just looking for something to complain about directed at me like shack

Quote: 


All this "Oh Beadles is so average, typical Jaguars" is just laughable (not pointing this at you, more so TMD). The guy has been a solid NFL player, and fits the scheme. It's laughable that an average player pickup in FA is such a bad thing. You're not going to just have studs at every spot in the NFL.

 

Its not merely adding a guy like Beadles that is my issue...

 

Adding Beadles at a salary thats commensurate with that level of play is something I'd be okay with....

 

but Beadles, largely with the help of blocking for a QB that gets rid of the ball quicker than just about any QB in football, will be overrated, and way overpaid, based on that. 

Quote:Its not merely adding a guy like Beadles that is my issue...

 

Adding Beadles at a salary thats commensurate with that level of play is something I'd be okay with....

 

but Beadles, largely with the help of blocking for a QB that gets rid of the ball quicker than just about any QB in football, will be way overpaid, and overrated, based on that. 

 

How do you know what his contract will be? There isn't anything much better than Beadles on the market (you're KC guards argument is awful really, i'm sorry but you can't say a guy is better because his quarterback is worse, that is not a sound argument at all....just because Beadles is lucky enough to play with a great QB doesn't mean the guy will be [BLEEP] if he leaves that situation). We have no starting interior OL, we are going to have to get a guy eventually, and most guys are paid more than what they should get all the time now a days. Adding guys like Beadles, Schoefield, Thurmond III, are exactly the guy's this team should be targeting.

Quote:Its not merely adding a guy like Beadles that is my issue...

 

Adding Beadles at a salary thats commensurate with that level of play is something I'd be okay with....

 

but Beadles, largely with the help of blocking for a QB that gets rid of the ball quicker than just about any QB in football, will be overrated, and way overpaid, based on that. 

 

It's interesting you have focused in Beadles' pass blocking.

 

What do you think about his run blocking?

 

I believe Denver uses a power run blocking approach.  If he is more of a zone blocking G, do you think the scheme impacted his effectiveness, assuming Denver in fact utilizes power blocking?

Quote:I would hope with all this capspace, the most in the league, that we finally do something that improves this team. 

what like give a ton of money to a guard or a pass rusher that's never got double digit sacks?

Quote:Yes, but you just said since we have cap space that means we should go spend essentially. That is not the smart route to go at all. Yes, we have to go and sign a few guys, we have no interior OL, our pass rush is lacking, etc. That doesn't mean we should go into FA and offer up stupid contracts to everyone just because we can. That is not what good organizations do. Give me Zane Beadles, Red Bryant, maybe a Walter Thurmond and/or O'Brien Schofield, that's a solid free agency. Build through the draft. You shouldn't be building you're team through FA. You get guys on reasonable deals that can help you and hopefully be long term fits, as well as find guys that fit their scheme and can be very successful (ala Sen'Derick Marks). I would be very happy with Alex Mack, or Alterraun Verner, etc...but that is not the way any team should go unless you think he fits the scheme great and the money is worth it at the stage we are in.

 

All this "Oh Beadles is so average, typical Jaguars" is just laughable (not pointing this at you, more so TMD). The guy has been a solid NFL player, and fits the scheme. It's laughable that an average player pickup in FA is such a bad thing. You're not going to just have studs at every spot in the NFL.

I dont want us to go out and sign the whole FA pool... I do however want us to spend some of that to get some impact players in here.

 

Building through the draft is nice, and it sounds even better... but that's not a faster track to anything if you dont supplement with already established players.

 

We have been building through the draft, which is why we have so many cheap contracts and so much cap space.  Take advantage of that by being smart in FA on who is going to come in and fit this system and play well.

 

there is more to being a GM than saying we are going to build through the draft...

Quote:How do you know what his contract will be? There isn't anything much better than Beadles on the market (you're KC guards argument is awful really, i'm sorry but you can't say a guy is better because his quarterback is worse, that is not a sound argument at all....just because Beadles is lucky enough to play with a great QB doesn't mean the guy will be [BAD WORD REMOVED] if he leaves that situation). We have no starting interior OL, we are going to have to get a guy eventually, and most guys are paid more than what they should get all the time now a days. Adding guys like Beadles, Schoefield, Thurmond III, are exactly the guy's this team should be targeting.

 

Again my issue isn't so much in adding someone like Beadles, its what I think he'll cost. I think he'll make significantly more than similarly talended OG's merely because he'll be overrated because of how he performed with quick draw Manning at QB. 

 

We'll see if I'm correct soon. 

Quote:It's interesting you have focused in Beadles' pass blocking.

 

What do you think about his run blocking?

 

I believe Denver uses a power run blocking approach.  If he is more of a zone blocking G, do you think the scheme impacted his effectiveness, assuming Denver in fact utilizes power blocking?

 

I focused on his pass blocking because thats been a HUGE area of weakness for the Jaguars for quite a long time. (Jags interior OL pass blocking). 

 

I'm not as concerned about the run blocking. Its important too, but I want to see our pass blocking shored up. 

Quote:I focused on his pass blocking because thats been a HUGE area of weakness for the Jaguars for quite a long time. (Jags interior OL pass blocking). 

 

I'm not as concerned about the run blocking. Its important too, but I want to see our pass blocking shored up. 

But do you think scheme impacted his play? 

Quote: 

 

but Beadles, largely with the help of blocking for a QB that gets rid of the ball quicker than just about any QB in football, will be overrated, and way overpaid, based on that. 

 

You know its possible that Beadles is above average and really good, but because he plays with a QB that gets rid of the ball quicker then any QB he can not really show how good he is. I do believe Denver had a good running game up the middle and the use a similar scheme wtih run blocking that we do. So u really have no clue how good or bad he is, and niether do i.

Quote:Again my issue isn't so much in adding someone like Beadles, its what I think he'll cost. I think he'll make significantly more than similarly talended OG's merely because he'll be overrated because of how he performed with quick draw Manning at QB. 

 

We'll see if I'm correct soon. 

 

Pre-emptive anger

Quote:Again my issue isn't so much in adding someone like Beadles, its what I think he'll cost. I think he'll make significantly more than similarly talended OG's merely because he'll be overrated because of how he performed with quick draw Manning at QB. 

 

We'll see if I'm correct soon. 

a starting OLineman isn't gonna be cheap, but I'm sure there will be other guards who will get paid more this year

Quote:Again my issue isn't so much in adding someone like Beadles, its what I think he'll cost. I think he'll make significantly more than similarly talended OG's merely because he'll be overrated because of how he performed with quick draw Manning at QB. 

 

We'll see if I'm correct soon. 

 

Alright, I guess I just got annoyed when I heard the whole "Average players, classic Jaguars" line. Such a stupid saying, look at where the Bucs/Redskins etc. are at because they spend in FA. I'm happy with guys like Sen'derrick Marks who we brought in and was a great scheme fit, and turned out being a very solid player. I think Beadles could be similar. Peyton definitely helps the way his OL look, but if he's going to a scheme that better fits him, can't he get even better like Marks did?

 

I'm pretty confident in Caldwell/Gus and their knowledge on who would fit the scheme with what happens with the guys we signed/drafted last year.

Quote:Again my issue isn't so much in adding someone like Beadles, its what I think he'll cost. I think he'll make significantly more than similarly talended OG's merely because he'll be overrated because of how he performed with quick draw Manning at QB. 

 

We'll see if I'm correct soon. 

Just about any free agent is going to come with a price tag with the expanded salary cap.  That's life in the NFL.  If you're the one stroking checks, then you can worry about it.  Otherwise, the team has the money, and they have to spend it.  If Beadles proves to be an upgrade over what we're moving away from, it's money well spent. 

Quote:But do you think scheme impacted his play? 

 

Not sure what scheme Denver runs but yeah, its possible. I think having quick draw McGraw at QB also impacted his play, in a positive manner. 

I've read Beadles is the best left guard on the market

 

The other guys people clamoring for had most of their success on the right side.

Quote:Just about any free agent is going to come with a price tag with the expanded salary cap.  That's life in the NFL.  If you're the one stroking checks, then you can worry about it.  Otherwise, the team has the money, and they have to spend it.  If Beadles proves to be an upgrade over what we're moving away from, it's money well spent. 

 

I agree that all or most free agents will be overpaid....

 

So, targeting players (e.g. Byrd/ Mack/ etc) that actually have high talent at least gets you something in return for that overpayment. 

 

Overpaying guys like Beadles/ M Johnson/ Bennett) gets you players like the Jags signed in previous years, i.e. Pashos/ Landry/ Session, i.e. average talent////but for lotsa money. 

Quote:But do you think scheme impacted his play? 

I would say that it probably did, but not nearly as much as the fact that Manning is a guy who has always been known for getting the ball out quickly.  It's difficult to get a real sense for how good a pass blocker someone is when their QB is Peyton Manning. 

 

Manning was one of the least sacked players in the league, and the guy is pretty much a statue.  They only gave up 18 sacks on the year, and while he wasn't the least sacked QB in the league, that's only because the guys who had fewer didn't play the entire season.  That's got a lot to do with his ability to make quick reads.  It's also at least party attributed to the play of the line in front of him I would think.  It's still a team sport at the end of the day.  If the line wasn't solid in pass protection, Manning would have been on his back quite a bit more.

Quote:I agree that all or most free agents will be overpaid....

 

So, targeting players (e.g. Byrd/ Mack/ etc) that actually have high talent at least gets you something in return for that overpayment. 

 

Overpaying guys like Beadles/ M Johnson/ Bennett) gets you players like the Jags signed in previous years, i.e. Pashos/ Landry/ Session, i.e. average talent////but for lotsa money. 

 

You're using the decisions made by people who are no longer with the franchise as if it's the benchmark that should be applied to this regime, and that's simply not the case.  It's a reach to try to use an example like Pashos to make your point because we don't have Shack Harris or Gene Smith making those decisions. 

I will take Beadles over Uche, Rackley any day